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I could see the splitting the bus service on Jane becoming a contentious issue. All the other proposals make sense to me.

I thought the same thing as well. If they do not end up having a branch of 35 running straight down to Jane Station then a whole lot of people will be having to inconveniently transfer at Jane & Eglinton between 19 and 35, unless they are hoping that current 35 riders north of Eglinton will transfer to/from the Crosstown LRT instead of the BD line.

I guess no more service on Trethewey northwest of Black Creek?

IIRC, there is suppose to be a small bus terminal at Keele-Eglinton LRT Station. I think they will renumber 32C and run it from Keele-Eglinton LRT Station to Jane & Lawrence.

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  • 2 months later...

Here's my gripe about this project - the lack of transparency in project status reporting.

They have been tunnelling for a few weeks now and there is no information on the Crosstown web site about how it's going.

If you want a model of transparency, go to https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114607061858124686339.0004683e4f72dda8726f1&t=p&ll=43.104242,-79.086113&spn=0.175464,0.291824&z=11&source=embed

which shows the location of the Niagara Tunnel boring machine (Big Becky) thoughout that project.

My point is, over the course of the Niagara Tunnel project, this map was updated virtually daily, through good and bad. (the project had its challenges, but they had the integrity to report candidly on how it was progressing).

In comparison, the TTC's Spadina tunnel boring progress map was updated sporadically and only when there was good news. If the map hadn't been updated in a while....you knew there were problems, but the TTC didn't admit them until long after the fact. The Spadina web site is a PR tool geared to distract us with tales of Holey and Moley..... as if we were gullible kids watching a Saturday morning cartoon on TV.

Considering that it's our money they are spending, I think Metrolinx owes it to the public to give us regular (I would settle for weekly) reports on how much tunnelling has been accomplished and whether things are running smoothly. No PR spin, just the facts please, and please be candid.

Yeah, I know, this is Toronto, and transit is political, etc etc. Heaven forbid there actually be some public accountability for the execution of this project. But that's my view, and I'm sticking to it.

- Paul

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I thought the same thing as well. If they do not end up having a branch of 35 running straight down to Jane Station then a whole lot of people will be having to inconveniently transfer at Jane & Eglinton between 19 and 35, unless they are hoping that current 35 riders north of Eglinton will transfer to/from the Crosstown LRT instead of the BD line.

IIRC, there is suppose to be a small bus terminal at Keele-Eglinton LRT Station. I think they will renumber 32C and run it from Keele-Eglinton LRT Station to Jane & Lawrence

Confirm that besides the old Coffee Time at Keele and Eglinton Metrolinx has also purchased the car wash and getting the EMS site as well to build the bus terminal but the bigger terminal will be located at Black Creek,

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  • 1 year later...

With the Spadina and St Clair street car lines being grade separated, what makes them not considered part of the RT? The Crosstown will be part of the RT. Is there plans to upgrade the rest of the Streetcar system to what Spadina and St Clair are?

Spadina and St Clair aren't grade seperated, it's simply an at grade private right of way.

Grade seperation is when a route doesn't intersect with other roads/railways, the subway and the SRT are examples of grade separation as they go over and under intersecting routes, hence the term 'grade seperation'.

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Spadina and St Clair aren't grade seperated, it's simply an at grade private right of way.

Grade seperation is when a route doesn't intersect with other roads/railways, the subway and the SRT are examples of grade separation as they go over and under intersecting routes, hence the term 'grade seperation'.

Am I right then that the Crosstown is also not going to be grade separated?

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Why is the Crosstown being considered part of the RT? Should the Spadina and St Clair also be considered part of the RT as they do not mix with traffic?

510 and 512 do intersect with traffic.

Crosstown is marketed as a limited-stop service at stregically considered locations with the majority of the line being underground using different equipment.

510 and 512 are both streetcar routes. Marketed as such, using conventional equipment despite having islands in the middle of the road beside tracks.

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510 and 512 do intersect with traffic.

Crosstown is marketed as a limited-stop service at stregically considered locations with the majority of the line being underground using different equipment.

510 and 512 are both streetcar routes. Marketed as such, using conventional equipment despite having islands in the middle of the road beside tracks.

Will the Crosstown line above ground look similar to the 510 and 512?

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Will the Crosstown line above ground look similar to the 510 and 512?

That's the common misconception with the Crosstown line that Rob Ford buried in everyone's mind. I'm too lazy to dig up the documents for the project, but think of it as being similar to what you see on The Queensway. That's as close of an example to LRT that we have in the city.

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That's the common misconception with the Crosstown line that Rob Ford buried in everyone's mind. I'm too lazy to dig up the documents for the project, but think of it as being similar to what you see on The Queensway. That's as close of an example to LRT that we have in the city.

And how is that different that what is on Spadina or St Clair?

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And how is that different that what is on Spadina or St Clair?

Spadina and St.Clair cars still have traffic lights to obey, where as that little stretch on Queensway only stops at marked stops, there's still a few lights mixed in but nowhere near Spadina or St. Clair

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Spadina and St.Clair cars still have traffic lights to obey, where as that little stretch on Queensway only stops at marked stops, there's still a few lights mixed in but nowhere near Spadina or St. Clair

What I am thinking is when line gets separated from regular traffic such that non transit vehicles, like how the Queensway, Spadina, St Clair and the Crosstown, it should be included with the RT lines.

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What I am thinking is when line gets separated from regular traffic such that non transit vehicles, like how the Queensway, Spadina, St Clair and the Crosstown, it should be included with the RT lines.

Huh?

The Queensway, Spadina, and St.Clair ROWs will never function as LRT no matter how you try and change things. They are designed for local stops. Even if you pair the streetcars as 2-3 cars "trains" they still wouldnt function as LRT, and if transit priority signaling was ever implemented properly in these ROWs these routes still wouldn't function as LRT. Basically what i'm saying is that they arent, and will not ever be considered to be LRT routes. The only one out of the three ROW's that could be transformed in that manner would be The Queensway with the WWLRT but I wont get into that.

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Huh?

The Queensway, Spadina, and St.Clair ROWs will never function as LRT no matter how you try and change things. They are designed for local stops. Even if you pair the streetcars as 2-3 cars "trains" they still wouldnt function as LRT, and if transit priority signaling was ever implemented properly in these ROWs these routes still wouldn't function as LRT. Basically what i'm saying is that they arent, and will not ever be considered to be LRT routes. The only one out of the three ROW's that could be transformed in that manner would be The Queensway with the WWLRT but I wont get into that.

Then why is the Crosstown going to be considered one when the above ground sounds like it is the same?

What is WWLRT?

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Then why is the Crosstown going to be considered one when the above ground sounds like it is the same?

Because the stops and intersections of the road crossing the track are far apart. As opposed to Spadina and St. Clair where the vehicles cross the tracks every block.

One is rapid, the other isn't. Just look at the vehicle speeds.

And since when was rapid transit preceded by "the"?

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Because the stops and intersections of the road crossing the track are far apart. As opposed to Spadina and St. Clair where the vehicles cross the tracks every block.

One is rapid, the other isn't. Just look at the vehicle speeds.

And since when was rapid transit preceded by "the"?

RT or rapid transit is a very vague term. Same as light rail.

Originally RT implies fast, mass people transit but you'll find modern day term of RT have nothing to do with speed. Rapid Transit simply means it has it's own Right of Way (ROW). Therefore yes, Spadina and St Clair are Rapid Transit as TTC does classify them as streetcar rapid transit on the old TTC map. This stupid meaning began along with BRT, bus rapid transit which runs on it's own lane with at grade intersections. VIVA's system is slow and yet it's BRT compared to Mississauga Transitway and OC Transpo's Transitways but there is no distinction of the term.

This is why it's so confusing to public and TTC should stop using the term Light Rail already. The public does not understand the terms "grade separated" and "exclusive right of way" and therefore missed up the SRT replacement as a LRT line running right in the middle of the road. The term Rapid Transit will soon join LRT as a negatively portrait term in Toronto if it is used to describe the Eglinton LRT on the surface. Shame on the TTC for using LRT for every line from Sheppard LRT to underground Eglinton and SRT replacement. A portion of the population still thinks the entire Eglinton LRT will be on the surface that impedes vehicular traffic.

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Utter codswallop. Would you call the Pearson people-move rapid transit?

Technically yes, it qualifies if the line is longer.

Google Macau Light Rail Transit, it's a system under construction using elevated large people movers. I think most people would consider it as RT. Remember, Detroit using the same Mk I trains and it's consider a people mover.

Today's term of RT has nothing to do with length of the train either. There are some RT system that uses very short trains. Definitely not the RT we are thinking about.

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This is why it's so confusing to public and TTC should stop using the term Light Rail already. The public does not understand the terms "grade separated" and "exclusive right of way" and therefore missed up the SRT replacement as a LRT line running right in the middle of the road. The term Rapid Transit will soon join LRT as a negatively portrait term in Toronto if it is used to describe the Eglinton LRT on the surface. Shame on the TTC for using LRT for every line from Sheppard LRT to underground Eglinton and SRT replacement. A portion of the population still thinks the entire Eglinton LRT will be on the surface that impedes vehicular traffic.

The TTC themselves are the one's who coined the term "LRT" every opportunity it could in the past to every new project being built, and that's why people are confused with the term in Toronto. When the Scarborough RT was being planned, they initially called it LRT before the ICTS came into place. Fast forward a couple years to Spadina and they did they same thing when the conversion from bus to streetcar was being done. A few years after that they did the same thing with the Harbourfront Line calling it an "LRT" line. The case with the St.Clair line was slightly different as the media hyped it up as an "LRT" line but the TTC did nothing to correct it.

Now today, there is a large percentage of the population that thinks the Eglinton line will be like the others (ie: Spadina, St.Clair, Queen Quay) and that's due to the TTC feeding these people information that was untrue and misguided. Add that to the fact the many people in the city are clueless about the infrastructure projects happening right outside their door and we can see where all the confusion comes from.

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Today's term of RT has nothing to do with length of the train either. There are some RT system that uses very short trains. Definitely not the RT we are thinking about.

They key criteria is speed, which is primarily driven by stop spacing. Much of rapid transit is in 12-metre or 18-metre lengths ... so short trains shouldn't surprise anyone.

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Short trains? No. Designing the stations to only handle short trains with no consideration for future growth? Yes. (I'm looking at you SRT.)

The SRT stations are expandable. There was a plan to expand them as part of the $190 million upgrade to handle Mark II trains, before we fell down the rabbit hole.

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