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Eglinton Crosstown line


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4 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

Annoying they still seem to be building it all underground. Why not elevated on a structure or something else that makes more sense and is much cheaper?

Because it's in Doug Ford's riding.

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1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Tunnelling for the Eglinton Crosstown western extension has begun. Tunnelling worked expected to finish by 2024 and the aim for revenue service by 2030 or 2031.

Are they gonna start on the eastern extension as well? or is the Scarborough Subway Extension priority in the east end now?

I am dreading the day that they start that though, as it will eventually make its way into my neighbourhood and will be a nightmare for many years until its finished.

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1 minute ago, MK78 said:

Are they gonna start on the eastern extension as well? or is the Scarborough Subway Extension priority in the east end now?

I am dreading the day that they start that though, as it will eventually make its way into my neighbourhood and will be a nightmare for many years until its finished.

Right now, the Scarborough Subway Extension is the priority since they have been working on a plan regarding how to provide the bus replacement service. Especially with 57 to 67 buses required to provide the parallel service until the extension goes into service. Lasting several years once the Scarborough RT is decommissioned in Fall 2023. 

The red bus lanes are a temporary measure until the Eglinton Crosstown East extension gets funding and goes to tender to a successful bidder. Right now, they haven't put that contract out yet where as the western extension was issued to a contractor having to provide their cost breakdowns along with partners and planning. Planning such as cost estimates, resources and schedules. 

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10 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Are they gonna start on the eastern extension as well? or is the Scarborough Subway Extension priority in the east end now?

I am dreading the day that they start that though, as it will eventually make its way into my neighbourhood and will be a nightmare for many years until its finished.

That is not even funded 

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Yeah, good (kind of). I know it will be good once done, but the construction horrors is what I don't want. But its probably safe for 8-10 years before it even begins.

And yeah, the Red transit priority lanes and removed stops on Eglinton/Kingston are actually pretty good in terms of speeding stuff up. It took a while for drivers to adjust but its good especially on a semi-express route like 905.

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13 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Yeah, good (kind of). I know it will be good once done, but the construction horrors is what I don't want. But its probably safe for 8-10 years before it even begins.

And yeah, the Red transit priority lanes and removed stops on Eglinton/Kingston are actually pretty good in terms of speeding stuff up. It took a while for drivers to adjust but its good especially on a semi-express route like 905.

I don't know why you are so worried.

 

If you look at the construction of the surface level section of The Crosstown - or even parts of Finch West, for that matter - the whole of the construction took less than 3 years. Individual sections take even less. It is way, way less intensive and disruptive than building it underground.

 

So yeah, the construction will suck while it happens. But it will be well worth it in the end.

 

Dan

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22 hours ago, MK78 said:

Are they gonna start on the eastern extension as well? or is the Scarborough Subway Extension priority in the east end now?

The city is in charge of the eastern extension; they are focusing more on the second platform for Bloor TTC station currently..

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On 4/5/2022 at 9:50 AM, nfitz said:

Because it's in Doug Ford's riding.

I mean Toronto has a nasty habit of doing that long before Doug Ford. Take York Mills station and the extention from Warden to Kennedy as prime examples. There's definitely NIMBY inference in all of them but still, we bury too many of our rapid transit lines when in many cases we don't have to. 

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On 4/11/2022 at 9:51 PM, GTAmissions1 said:

Right now, the Scarborough Subway Extension is the priority since they have been working on a plan regarding how to provide the bus replacement service. Especially with 57 to 67 buses required to provide the parallel service until the extension goes into service. Lasting several years once the Scarborough RT is decommissioned in Fall 2023. 

The red bus lanes are a temporary measure until the Eglinton Crosstown East extension gets funding and goes to tender to a successful bidder. Right now, they haven't put that contract out yet where as the western extension was issued to a contractor having to provide their cost breakdowns along with partners and planning. Planning such as cost estimates, resources and schedules. 

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

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1 hour ago, lifty4ever said:

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

It is possible minimizing the amount of traffic buses have to deal with the adjacent roads. The trade-off is that it won't be available for at least two to three years since the old rail infrastructure has to be removed and the right of way expanded to accommodate buses along with stations. Similar to the Transitway in Ottawa. This is the most recommended option by TTC staff.

Operating on adjacent roads is easier, but would also require more buses to operate because of mixed traffic especially during peak periods even with limited stops. 

The decision comes later today on how to provide the bus replacement service for Scarborough RT until the subway extension opens. 

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23 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

It is possible minimizing the amount of traffic buses have to deal with the adjacent roads. The trade-off is that it won't be available for at least two to three years since the old rail infrastructure has to be removed and the right of way expanded to accommodate buses along with stations. Similar to the Transitway in Ottawa. This is the most recommended option by TTC staff.

Operating on adjacent roads is easier, but would also require more buses to operate because of mixed traffic especially during peak periods even with limited stops. 

The decision comes later today on how to provide the bus replacement service for Scarborough RT until the subway extension opens. 

The trade off is the only thing i see hindering this idea being a slam dunk decision but i don't think anyone would disagree with the BRT conversion even if it took a couple years to construct and its not it couldn't be further converted for other purposes post line 2 extension completion. 

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On 4/14/2022 at 1:39 AM, lifty4ever said:

How probable is the conversion of the SRT corridor being converted into a BRT line?

From Ellesmere to Kennedy is now approved, and they just have to sort out funding with Metrolinx. Using the existing stations at Lawrence East and Ellesmere, and adding one at Tara/Mooregate about half-way between Kennedy and Lawrence.

I wonder if they'll continue to use it after 2030 - and where service would go then. I don't know the ridership along Kennedy enough to know whether it may be a good idea to be part of a 943 Kennedy service - similar to how the 939 Finch still uses a piece of that BRT that used to run from Sheppard West to York University.

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8 hours ago, nfitz said:

From Ellesmere to Kennedy is now approved, and they just have to sort out funding with Metrolinx. Using the existing stations at Lawrence East and Ellesmere, and adding one at Tara/Mooregate about half-way between Kennedy and Lawrence.

I wonder if they'll continue to use it after 2030 - and where service would go then. I don't know the ridership along Kennedy enough to know whether it may be a good idea to be part of a 943 Kennedy service - similar to how the 939 Finch still uses a piece of that BRT that used to run from Sheppard West to York University.

They did mention that in the board meeting it could be used past 2030 for Kennedy express or something. So they do think of keeping it.

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14 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

They did mention that in the board meeting it could be used past 2030 for Kennedy express or something. So they do think of keeping it.

That would be smart, and for future shuttle bus use when the subway is down for whatever reason.

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45 minutes ago, MK78 said:

That would be smart, and for future shuttle bus use when the subway is down for whatever reason.

Express shuttle, yes. It'll be a problem as people get used to the new Lawrence East station location and a shuttle using this corridor won't go remotely near there.

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

Ah - I should go listen to that!

There were people asking for a bike lane beside the busway, which is not part of the initial project. The project is currently receiving zero funding from Queen's Park is also a problem.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure if this should go here and/or in the general News thread, but:

Toronto Star: How often should the Eglinton LRT run? TTC, Metrolinx disagree

Non-paywall version

Metrolinx wants to run higher frequency service (as often as every 3 minutes, 10 seconds), while the TTC who will be operating the service, in light of reduced ridership from the pandemic wants to initially run it at 5 minutes all day increasing along with ridership.  Given the delays, I can see Metrolinx trying to get the optimal service from the start.  The TTC on the other hand is in a funding crunch due to the reduced ridership.  This will be the first joint project in the GTA and people are closely watching how the partnership will play out for the rest of the projects.

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On 4/26/2022 at 4:46 PM, Gil said:

Not sure if this should go here and/or in the general News thread, but:

Toronto Star: How often should the Eglinton LRT run? TTC, Metrolinx disagree

Non-paywall version

Metrolinx wants to run higher frequency service (as often as every 3 minutes, 10 seconds), while the TTC who will be operating the service, in light of reduced ridership from the pandemic wants to initially run it at 5 minutes all day increasing along with ridership.  Given the delays, I can see Metrolinx trying to get the optimal service from the start.  The TTC on the other hand is in a funding crunch due to the reduced ridership.  This will be the first joint project in the GTA and people are closely watching how the partnership will play out for the rest of the projects.

I've heard the Eglinton line will start out running two car trains but is able to run 3 if need be. If they run lower frequency, can they use the 3 car trains as a compromise?

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45 minutes ago, lifty4ever said:

I've heard the Eglinton line will start out running two car trains but is able to run 3 if need be. If they run lower frequency, can they use the 3 car trains as a compromise?

They certainly could. However, based on @smallspy's analysis from another thread, I don't think the issue is on ridership and capacity; instead, lengthening trains may actually exacerbate the issues mentioned in the dispute (TTC would have fewer of its employees working on the extension with trains being more infrequent, while they'd be paying more in maintenance costs as more trains would be required); all the time the public ends up with inferior service.

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The 2022 ASP has listed Line 5 to operate with 18 trains (2 cars consists) meaning 36 LRVs which is not even half the fleet. Half the fleet becomes spares and would never to utilized regularly for the next decade making 1/3rd of their life wasted. TTC plans to ramp to to 21 trains by 2026 (42 LRVs).

By operating at 3'10" instead of 5', That's an increase of 58% bringing the total LRV needed to 56-58 LRVs. This brings the spare ratio to 30% instead of 111%. This is till high for operations as they could ramp up to 63 LRVs to bring it down to 20%. If they were to maintain this level of operation, they'll need atleast 20 more LRVs for Eglinton West extension.

I believe the TTC/ML agreement expires in 10 years, so if ML is really unhappy with the TTC, they can privatize Line 5 operations. By then, Queen's Park can attempt another subway takeover if they disagree with financial matters.

On the bring side, fansighting all the LRVs would be easier if ML gets their ways. 

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12 hours ago, Cityflyer said:

If they keep this low frequency, they don't need to order anymore LRVs after the west extension opens. lol

That's assuming they don't also come up with a eastern extension which considering the northern extension of line 2 honestly isn't out of the realm of possibility. But it remains to be seen just what they eventually decide on. As long as service in the east end isn't too slow, it should be fine. Hopefully there aren't too many drivers who get lost though incidents with motorists ending up on the tracks has already happened

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11 hours ago, lifty4ever said:

Hopefully there aren't too many drivers who get lost though incidents with motorists ending up on the tracks has already happened

I haven't heard of a single incident of a driver ending up on the tracks on Eglinton yet - and certainly, there's been nothing in the papers, which seems peculiar considering how quick they generally are to report on these kinds of things. How many have there been?

 

Dan

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