Eglinton Crosstown line

[nfitz]

That is the plan. Go to Slides 15 and 25 from the Crosstown's Online Consultation on the project.

I'm not seeing any information on where the exits from Laird are planned for. I believe this was in the original EA - though these things seem to be shifting as they get into actual station design.

I'm just throwing ideas that might ease the loss of the station amenity-wise.

I'm not sure why forcing those travelling south on Laird to Millwood would find the bus travelling around this non-essential loop to be an amenity. Or even what one getting off at Laird needs the loop for - as it wouldn't save any time. Perhaps nice for those that are boarding at Laird to head up Leslie ... however surely the best amenity would be a well-designed subway exit with an indoor waiting area where you can see the bus coming. You could even stick a bay into the sidewalk...

[Hobble123]

The cynic in me is thinking some of these people wanted the stop solely to increase their property value. Aside from Ms. Dunn, how many of the petition signers actually use transit? They were sold on the idea that the Crosstown would be coming when they bought their condos, so they're expecting a return on their investment.

As mentioned before, the viaduct would still run into the same issue as surface running of a suitable portal at Brentcliffe. So unless that can be quickly resolved, the best chance would be to leave provisions for a Leslie station to be built at a later time.

Incorporating some sort of looping facility at the Laird station in the plaza could also mollify the residents since the 51 LESLIE and 56 LEASIDE will apparently be merged and serve the Laird station.

It's such a missed opportunity not to build this station now and get it over with. As mentioned before, Leslie/Eglinton would be an ideal location for a future GO/RT connection and better terminus for the Lawrence East bus than Don Mills would be. Why couldn't the mega bus terminal planned for Don Mills not go here instead? There's no point investing in a long-term terminus at Don Mills if it'll inevitably be replaced by a DRL. The 100 could do the same on-street looping it does today of Gervais/Eglinton/Don Mills/Wynford and the 25 could also do an on-street transfer. The savings of not building the terminal there could be enough to construct a station at Leslie. Meanwhile then it'd just be a matter of repurposing the parking lot in Seton Park to facilitate ramps and an access road for 51, 54 and 56 buses.

So even if the majority of traffic into a Leslie/Eglinton is bus/train feeder traffic, it would more than justify its keep. The 54 alone would result in a large percentage of 34,000 daily boardings getting on/off at Leslie.

[smallspy]

It's such a missed opportunity not to build this station now and get it over with. As mentioned before, Leslie/Eglinton would be an ideal location for a future GO/RT connection and better terminus for the Lawrence East bus than Don Mills would be. Why couldn't the mega bus terminal planned for Don Mills not go here instead? There's no point investing in a long-term terminus at Don Mills if it'll inevitably be replaced by a DRL. The 100 could do the same on-street looping it does today of Gervais/Eglinton/Don Mills/Wynford and the 25 could also do an on-street transfer. The savings of not building the terminal there could be enough to construct a station at Leslie. Meanwhile then it'd just be a matter of repurposing the parking lot in Seton Park to facilitate ramps and an access road for 51, 54 and 56 buses.

So even if the majority of traffic into a Leslie/Eglinton is bus/train feeder traffic, it would more than justify its keep. The 54 alone would result in a large percentage of 34,000 daily boardings getting on/off at Leslie.

I hope that's a joke. There is simply no available land for a bus terminal of any size, nevermind one required to service a route as busy as the Lawrence East route. And repurposing a park for a bus terminal is even more politically toxic than road tolls.

The Leslie/Eglinton intersection is not going to densify within my life, or the life of any children I may have. The passenger loadings now would never justify a station there, and since it's not likely that any additional housing or industry will be locating there beyond what has already been built, they're not likely to improve very much.

And as for a connection with any future GO transit service - there is probably a 150 foot or more vertical difference between where a stop would be on the CP line and the subway station, nevermind the horizontal distance. It's not a practical location.

Dan

[nfitz]

It's such a missed opportunity not to build this station now and get it over with.

$100 million for what would likely be the most underused subway station in Toronto?

If there's $100 million to blow, wouldn't it make more sense to extend the line to the west from Mt. Dennis to Jane and Scarlett? Or build the University of Toronto Scarborough spur off the Sheppard East line?

[shambala]

$100 million for what would likely be the most underused subway station in Toronto?

I thought that distinction belonged to Bessarion,...the underused part,..or both.

[Gil]

I thought that distinction belonged to Bessarion,...the underused part,..or both.

Leslie would probably take the title from Bessarion. At Bessarion at least there's development surrounding the all four corners of the station intersection. Leslie only has one corner developped. The other three being parkland.

With the splitting of the Eglinton from the Scarborough segment, they've provisionally assigned it orange. (Earlier iterations were in the same blue as the SRT - see below.) At the risk of going off on a tangent that probably should go elsewhere, the Finch West line is given what looks like magenta while the Sheppard East gets light green. At the very least they should swap those two colours so that the Sheppard corridor at least has the same colour scheme.

If it's up for discussion how should these lines be treated on the system maps? I know the TTC has some relatively new policy on station names. Since this is a Metrolinx project will that apply here? There will be a few cases of duplicate station names on the Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard lines. I'm not a huge fan of hyphenated names based on the intersection like what's done in LA for example. While accurate, it seems rather impersonal. At the other end of the scale you have Santo Domingo where they've just about named each of their stations after a historical figure or event. Where possible, could they use neighbourhood names or landmarks similar to GO train stations? Bathurst ~> Forest Hill, Bayview ~> Leaside, Don Mills ~> Science Centre, Ferrand ~> Aga Khan (this is probably the only duplicate that would get a different name), Victoria Park ~> Eglinton Square or O'Connor (or give it one of those names and consolidate the Victoria Park and Pharmacy stops), Warden ~> Golden Mile. (Jane,) Keele and Dufferin have me stumped. Label them in the stations like the University Line with the cross-street beneath the station name.

[nfitz]

Leslie would probably take the title from Bessarion. At Bessarion at least there's development surrounding the all four corners of the station intersection. Leslie only has one corner developped. The other three being parkland.

Looking at the recent TTC numbers, Bessarion shrank from 2,590 riders a day in 2009/2010 to 2,080 a day in 2011/2012 while Leslie only shrank from 5,610 riders to 5,510 riders; they are now the least used subway stations on the system after Glencairn overtook Leslie. Only Ellesemere RT station has a lower ridership than Bessarion.

However both Bessarion and Leslie have a lot of potential. I'm not sure why you say Leslie has parkland on 4 corners. The northeast corner is low density residential, and hte south west corner is very developed, with new residential and commercial towers going in. Yes, there is some parkland on the southeast corner, but there's also North York General Hospital. And there is also some parkland on the northwest corner, but it's not very wide, and there's some small office towers on the east side of the railway tracks (north of Sheppard), and low-density residential on the west side.

Bessarion does indeed have devlopment on 4 corners, but only high-density on the southeast corner - the rest of still low density residential. I'd expect Leslie and Bessarion to benefit somewhat equally from the recent development

With the splitting of the Eglinton from the Scarborough segment, they've provisionally assigned it orange. (Earlier iterations were in the same blue as the SRT - see below.)

They were both blue for a bit when it was going to be one line, but if you go back to 2010 when it was split, Eglinton was Orange. See

If you look at the images they also have the Jane LRT as a darker blue, the Don Mills LRT as a baby blue, Finch is a darker red, the Sheppard East LRT is a lime green, and the Scarborough-Malvern LRT is brown.

This is the same colour scheme as the August 2010 map of Transit City still on the TTC's website, with Waterfront West in magenta.

[TomW]

If it's up for discussion how should these lines be treated on the system maps? I know the TTC has some relatively new policy on station names. Since this is a Metrolinx project will that apply here? There will be a few cases of duplicate station names on the Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard lines. I'm not a huge fan of hyphenated names based on the intersection like what's done in LA for example. While accurate, it seems rather impersonal.

The notion of having duplicate station-names on separate lines wouldn't be new to Toronto. New York does exactly that - there are four stations called 125th Street, and four more called 96th Street! Chicago also has multiple stations with the same name.

The only reason we have "xxx " and "xxx West" is because they are are on the same line, for all the that two segments get different names.

....

They were both blue for a bit when it was going to be one line, but if you go back to 2010 when it was split, Eglinton was Orange.

If you look at the images they also have the Jane LRT as a darker blue, the Don Mills LRT as a baby blue, Finch is a darker red, the Sheppard East LRT is a lime green, and the Scarborough-Malvern LRT is brown.

This is the same colour scheme as the August 2010 map of Transit City still on the TTC's website, with Waterfront West in magenta.

It's annoying they chose lime green for Sheppard, because already have (dark) green for the B-D. Better to use a colour with a unique name - purple would work with everything else. (London manages to have each line a separate colour).

[nfitz]

It's annoying they chose lime green for Sheppard, because already have (dark) green for the B-D. Better to use a colour with a unique name - purple would work with everything else. (London manages to have each line a separate colour).

It's a very distinct colour though. London has two blues (Picadilly and Victoria) and two turqoises (DLR and the Waterloo & City). They even use two greens similar to the ones we are discussing here. Our BD line is similar to the green used for the District line, and the lime green for Sheppard is similar to their LRT line "Tramlink".

[smallspy]

The only reason we have "xxx " and "xxx West" is because they are are on the same line, for all the that two segments get different names.

*ahem* Lawrence East. Or maybe even Dundas West and Dundas, which are not on the same line.

Keeping stations named differently makes it much easier to figure out where one needs to go, and avoids the confusion of trying to remember which 125th Street Station one needs to head to.

Dan

[BBfellow]

Or just name stations based on nearby landmarks/shopping centers (if there are any).

[Gil]

Looking at the recent TTC numbers, Bessarion shrank from 2,590 riders a day in 2009/2010 to 2,080 a day in 2011/2012 while Leslie only shrank from 5,610 riders to 5,510 riders; they are now the least used subway stations on the system after Glencairn overtook Leslie. Only Ellesemere RT station has a lower ridership than Bessarion.

However both Bessarion and Leslie have a lot of potential. I'm not sure why you say Leslie has parkland on 4 corners. The northeast corner is low density residential, and hte south west corner is very developed, with new residential and commercial towers going in. Yes, there is some parkland on the southeast corner, but there's also North York General Hospital. And there is also some parkland on the northwest corner, but it's not very wide, and there's some small office towers on the east side of the railway tracks (north of Sheppard), and low-density residential on the west side.

Bessarion does indeed have devlopment on 4 corners, but only high-density on the southeast corner - the rest of still low density residential. I'd expect Leslie and Bessarion to benefit somewhat equally from the recent development

Herein lies the problem with having stations with duplicate names. I'm referring to the Leslie on the Eglinton Line! I believe you're referring to the one on the Sheppard Line. The Leslie (on Eglinton, which if it does go through I would recommend naming Sunnybrook Park to avoid the confusion) station that's proposed only has projected numbers which I'm guessing they used as their basis for not building the station.

[Hobble123]

Herein lies the problem with having stations with duplicate names. I'm referring to the Leslie on the Eglinton Line! I believe you're referring to the one on the Sheppard Line. The Leslie (on Eglinton, which if it does go through I would recommend naming Sunnybrook Park to avoid the confusion) station that's proposed only has projected numbers which I'm guessing they used as their basis for not building the station.

Or you could name it Wilket Creek Stn, as that's the section of Sunnybrook/Seton Park most associated witht he Leslie/Eglinton intersection. Sunnybrook is too synomynous with Bayview which also faces a name duplcation issue.

Don Mills could be named "Ontario Science Centre"; Laird could be "Leaside"; Bathurst, "Forest Hill"; Dufferin, "Dufferin North" or "Fairbank"; Keele, "Trethewey"; Weston, "Mount Dennis". "Caledonia" could almost be called "Westside".

[skyfirenet]

*ahem* Lawrence East. Or maybe even Dundas West and Dundas, which are not on the same line.

Keeping stations named differently makes it much easier to figure out where one needs to go, and avoids the confusion of trying to remember which 125th Street Station one needs to head to.

Dan

The only thing is, with the prospect of a future Downtown Relief line and the inability to kill the idea of extending the Sheppard line, it's probably best to avoid using north or south in the station names based on the intersecting street if it exists south of Bloor/Danforth and/or reaches Sheppard.

[smallspy]

The only thing is, with the prospect of a future Downtown Relief line and the inability to kill the idea of extending the Sheppard line, it's probably best to avoid using north or south in the station names based on the intersecting street if it exists south of Bloor/Danforth and/or reaches Sheppard.

Why not do what they did with the stations on Yonge and hyphenate them? It seems like a logical, if almost graceful, solution to me.

Dan

[nfitz]

Why not do what they did with the stations on Yonge and hyphenate them? It seems like a logical, if almost graceful, solution to me.

That would appear to be exactly what they are doing, if you look at the Stations page: http://www.thecrosstown.ca/the-project/station-design

Keele is called Keele-Eglinton. Dufferin is Dufferin-Eglinton. Eglinton West becomes Allen Road-Eglinton West (Allen-Eglinton West would be simpler). Oddly Bathurst is not Bathurst-Eglinton - though that was the first one they did, if I remember correctly - so presumably it would change.

Presumably then we will also have Bayview-Eglinton, Don Mills-Eglinton, and Warden-Eglinton (if they continue to avoid duplicate naming of the surface stations that will be little more than an LRT stop).

Other than that, it seems done ... though I'd be tempted to call "Avenue" as "Avenue Road" in the same way that we have "Main Street" station instead of "Main" station.

[new.flyer.408]

I'm not really sure about how much you can read into that as their website also calls them by 'Dufferin' and 'Keele', etc.

[nfitz]

I'm not really sure about how much you can read into that as their website also calls them by 'Dufferin' and 'Keele', etc.

Good point.

[D. DeLarge]

As Sarah Palin once said: "Drill baby drill!"

http://www.thestar.com/photos/2013/02/22/boring_machines_begin_arriving.html

[shambala]

As Sarah Palin once said: "Drill baby drill!"

http://www.thestar.c...n_arriving.html

Yes, except in her case i don't think she was referring to oil.

[skyfirenet]

As Sarah Palin once said: "Drill baby drill!"

http://www.thestar.c...n_arriving.html

Let's just hope that we can get them assembled and underway this time before Hudak has a chance to do anything about it.

[andyman]

What a mess Eglinton is. Lanes closed all over the place today. Will be a disaster till this thing is done.

[smallspy]

What a mess Eglinton is. Lanes closed all over the place today. Will be a disaster till this thing is done.

Well, duh. You expect them to be able to tunnel and add lanes at the same time?

Dan

[BBC 9197]

Well, duh. You expect them to be able to tunnel and add lanes at the same time?

Dan

I'm sure Mr Ford would be against this.

[TTC1700]

What a mess Eglinton is. Lanes closed all over the place today. Will be a disaster till this thing is done.

When is Eglinton never a mess?