Eglinton Crosstown line

[wil9402]

My ideas for bus routings during the SRT shutdown.

http://g.co/maps/re93

My plan makes all the bus routes that terminate at STC and don't serve any other SRT/Subway station run express along dedicated lanes to Kennedy. My idea is that the possible decrease in service frequency along these routes due to this plan could be offset by the transfer-free ride to Kennedy. The busier routes that do this (129, 133, 134, and 38) could use 60-footers, or a mix of 60s and 40s, to offset the possible decrease in service frequency.

Let me know what you think.

Diverting 54A down to Kennedy would reduce service on the western section of 54 by half. There are quite a few riders that ride 54A from one side of the RT to the other side.

With extending all these routes down to Kennedy have you thought of the how crowded Kennedy Station's terminal will become? It is already quite busy now during peak periods. Building a temporary second terminal in one of the lots would force riders to use transfer to switch between the buses and the subway too which would slow down their commute even more unless adjustments to a fare gate are made at one of the entrances.

Lastly, that SRT shuttle bus routing does not need to be that long. Even now when the TTC shuts down the SRT they don't run that way. The current routing for SRT shuttles is Eglinton-Kennedy-Lawrence (into Lawrence East Stn)-Midland-Ellesmere-McCowan-Triton. This routing allows them to serve all three terminals and all six stations on the line as fast as possible. I agree with new.flyer.408 though, with the SRT shut down a more simple shuttle could be used running something like Eglinton-Midland-Ellesmere-McCowan-Triton or Eglinton-Brimley/McCowan-Triton.

[409 Thornton]

The 54A already takes 70 minutes from Yonge to Morningside, maybe diverting the 54E to Kennedy would work, running express to Midland & Lawrence, McCowan and Markham Road and then local service continuing out to Starspray Loop.

54E and SRT shuttles could load on Transway.

No matter how you try and adjust service, the east side of Toronto will be crippled during this closure.

[nfitz]

 

No matter how you try and adjust service, the east side of Toronto will be crippled during this closure.

Indeed. At work we were looking for new office space last year ... end we eliminated the Scarborough Centre area from the equation solely because of the upcoming long-term SRT closure.

[Neil]

Indeed. At work we were looking for new office space last year ... end we eliminated the Scarborough Centre area from the equation solely because of the upcoming long-term SRT closure.

Out of curiosity where did your office relocate to?

[nfitz]

 

Out of curiosity where did your office relocate to?

St. Lawrence Market area - there's some cheaper rents to be found around there - and close enough to Union that it's accessible from everywhere. We were near York Mills/Don Mills, but the area wasn't very transit friendly either.

[Future Urban Planner]

Thanks for your input, everyone. With your suggestions in mind, I have created a new plan for the SRT shutdown.

http://g.co/maps/txfj

I simplified and shortened the SRT Replacement Bus route to reduce runtime and number of buses required, while still providing adequate service for the SRT corridor.

I have rerouted the STC-Kennedy Shuttle to only make right turns along its entire route, again to reduce runtime and number of buses required.

I have merged 38 into 95, and 130 into 169, and have adjusted their routings to fit. I have also made some other changes to several other routes.

Again, please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Edit: I'm now also working on a map for possible route changes after the Eglinton-Scarborough line opens. Any ideas, please let me know.

[andrew]

Edit: I'm now also working on a map for possible route changes after the Eglinton-Scarborough line opens. Any ideas, please let me know.

- Route 32 restructured as follows:

-- Main route 32 starts at Eglinton/Black Creek then follows current 32A routing.

-- 32A west on Eglinton to Martin Grove, then to Pearson Airport following current 307 routing.

-- 32E west on Eglinton to Martin Grove stopping at Jane, Scarlett, Royal York, Islington, Kipling, Martin Grove, then following Mississauga Transitway to Square One. Extra fare in Mississauga.

- 32C becomes new Trethewey bus route.

- 32D Emmett short turn cancelled.

- 32 east of Black Creek, 34 cancelled.

- New Albion Road bus, follows routing of 73C to Weston/St. Phillips, then southeast on Weston, east on Eglinton to Black Creek terminus. 73C branch cancelled.

- 58 Malton rerouted going west on Eglinton, NW on Weston, then W on Lawrence and Dixon following current route.

- 165 Weston Road North rerouted starting at Black Creek/Eglinton, west on Eglinton, north on Weston to Steeles.

- Reroute route 51 east on Eglinton and terminating at Don Mills/Eglinton. Create new route 51A running west from Don Mills/Eglinton to Leslie, N on Leslie, E on Lawrence and then looping around Donway (to serve employment areas along Leslie).

- Reroute route 54 to run from Don Mills/Eglinton, north on Don Mills, east on Eglinton.

- Shorten route 56 to end at Laird/Eglinton.

- Shorten route 100 to end at Don Mills/Eglinton.

- Extend route 74 up to north end of Mount Pleasant, cancel 103. Keep 5 and 61 as is (using on street looping at Yonge/Eglinton).

- Hopefully the Don Mills to STC bus via 401 will stay in operation permanently, until the Sheppard subway extension is built.

[M.Wright]

Uhhhh....i thought they got rid of the because they were problematic? We want to inherit someone else' problem?

They may of had problems but most were solved in the last few years they operated. But since they couldn't get rid of that reputation, when New Flyer offered a "too good to resist" deal, and our city council still believed that they were "unreliable" since they had that reputation.

So our City Council was essentially mislead to believe that this would be a great deal. Getting rid of "junk" and replacing it with "reliable new buses". Little did they know that wouldn't be the reality, as the old D60LFs were finally becoming reliable.

The reality is, (which none of us transit fans in Ottawa was surprised when this happened) that the new Artics ended up becoming more unreliable then the old D60LFs ever were.

So you wouldn't be inheriting someone elses problem, instead you would be buying buses from a city that was mislead to believe they were a problem. This is one of the many reasons why after the last election, transit related items (except for the LRT, which I will explain below for those who are interested) no longer requires city council approval. Since the deal was approved prior to the election.

The only good thing that came out of this deal was that now they have better seats so you don't hurt your butt while waiting for the next bus to come when it is broken down.

As for the LRT transfering, since I didn't want to put too much in that paragraph, it is being constructed by the city, like the Transitway. After it is complete, it will be transfered to OC Transpo so they can operate it. As currently OC Transpo only maintains the station platforms and any pedestrian pathways leading to the station. The actual roadway is owned and maintained by the City of Ottawa's Transportation Department, like any other roadway in the City of Ottawa. So repairs for the roadway comes out of the roadway repair budget for the entire city. This leads to some conflict in the winter since OC Transpo plows cannot plow the roadway, but only the platforms. Whereas the City's plows can only plow the roadway. But if it wasn't part of the City's road network, it would increase OC Transpo's budget quite a bit, and with our 50% fare recovery target, that would require us to increase our fares by quite alot.

So in the end, it's the taxpayers who fund 100% maintenance of the roadway on the Transitway. The old region wanted it to be like that since it's construction funding was diverted from other roadway projects to speed up the construction, so in order to do that, that is why it was constructed as a Regional Road vs a Transit Road. This is one advantage to having BRT, is you can put it under the roadway budget, so transit users don't have to pay for the maintenance of it. Seeing as it needs to be repaved every 3 or 5 years due to all the heavy buses OC runs these days, that was a very wise choice. It didn't need repaving very frequently until about 2003 due to the D60LFs arrival in 2001 since all the buses prior to that wern't too heavy.

Now I'll be quiet

[409 Thornton]

Thanks for your input, everyone. With your suggestions in mind, I have created a new plan for the SRT shutdown.

http://g.co/maps/txfj

I simplified and shortened the SRT Replacement Bus route to reduce runtime and number of buses required, while still providing adequate service for the SRT corridor.

I have rerouted the STC-Kennedy Shuttle to only make right turns along its entire route, again to reduce runtime and number of buses required.

I have merged 38 into 95, and 130 into 169, and have adjusted their routings to fit. I have also made some other changes to several other routes.

Again, please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Edit: I'm now also working on a map for possible route changes after the Eglinton-Scarborough line opens. Any ideas, please let me know.

In your route list, under 131 there wouldn't be anymore 131E service. Does that mean 131E service is cancelled all together? I don't know if that modification would work, however I do like the 54E modification, although I don't think a stop at Bellamy Road. Midland & Lawrence, Rushley Drive, McCowan Road, Markham Road and maybe Galloway Road.

[Hobble123]

- Route 32 restructured as follows:

-- Main route 32 starts at Eglinton/Black Creek then follows current 32A routing.

-- 32A west on Eglinton to Martin Grove, then to Pearson Airport following current 307 routing.

-- 32E west on Eglinton to Martin Grove stopping at Jane, Scarlett, Royal York, Islington, Kipling, Martin Grove, then following Mississauga Transitway to Square One. Extra fare in Mississauga.

- 32C becomes new Trethewey bus route.

- 32D Emmett short turn cancelled.

- 32 east of Black Creek, 34 cancelled.

- New Albion Road bus, follows routing of 73C to Weston/St. Phillips, then southeast on Weston, east on Eglinton to Black Creek terminus. 73C branch cancelled.

- 58 Malton rerouted going west on Eglinton, NW on Weston, then W on Lawrence and Dixon following current route.

- 165 Weston Road North rerouted starting at Black Creek/Eglinton, west on Eglinton, north on Weston to Steeles.

- Reroute route 51 east on Eglinton and terminating at Don Mills/Eglinton. Create new route 51A running west from Don Mills/Eglinton to Leslie, N on Leslie, E on Lawrence and then looping around Donway (to serve employment areas along Leslie).

- Reroute route 54 to run from Don Mills/Eglinton, north on Don Mills, east on Eglinton.

- Shorten route 56 to end at Laird/Eglinton.

- Shorten route 100 to end at Don Mills/Eglinton.

- Extend route 74 up to north end of Mount Pleasant, cancel 103. Keep 5 and 61 as is (using on street looping at Yonge/Eglinton).

- Hopefully the Don Mills to STC bus via 401 will stay in operation permanently, until the Sheppard subway extension is built.

I think you're overestimating just how much capacity there is along Weston Road for all those rerouted buses, typically a 4 lane corridor through Mount Dennis and Weston. If you are going to realign 58 Malton it's best to do so along Scarlett Road, the southernly continuation of Dixon. I don't know why one would extend the 165 south of Wilson. I'd also leave the 73 alone.

I like your suggestion for extending the Mississauga Transitway through Etobicoke. This would result most likely into a side-of-roadway ROW through the Richview Expressway lands, which could be easily converted into light-rail ROW in the future. Those stop spacings also make more sense than having to serve all the lesser used midblocks as well (Emmett, Mulham, Eden Valley, Wincott, etc.). You're still going to need regular bus service across all of Eglinton as the subway stop spacings are wider than those along Bloor-Danforth. For this reason, the 100 bus could still route into Yonge-Eglinton and another route in the west end (73? 63? 90?) could run across Eglinton through the bustling York-Eglinton area.

Now that Leslie/Eglinton is a subway stop, wouldn't it be more feasible to build a small bus terminal on-site for the 51 and 54 than incur a detour? I like the idea of having routes terminate where they first encounter the Eglinton line than looping all over the place. Other than that, great suggestions.

[new.flyer.408]

ECLRT now has a brand-spanking new website.

http://www.thecrosstown.ca/

Now, build it...

[BBfellow]

Son of a gun, the logo looks normal. Even the spacing is correct, I'm blown away.

[skyfirenet]

With the new "efficiencies" announced for the TTC, particularly with regards to future bus orders, am I the only one who is now starting to think the RT conversion is going to be a complete disaster?

[nfitz]

With the new "efficiencies" announced for the TTC, particularly with regards to future bus orders, am I the only one who is now starting to think the RT conversion is going to be a complete disaster?

Wouldn't the money to buy temporary buses for the RT replacement service come out of the $8-billion Metrolinx budget.

Though what are we looking at for that service to start ... 2017? 2018? Whoever replaces Ford may be replaced by then ...

[smallspy]

Wouldn't the money to buy temporary buses for the RT replacement service come out of the $8-billion Metrolinx budget.

My understanding was that temporary replacement vehicles - in whatever form they take - were covered in the budget for the project.

Dan

[skyfirenet]

Wouldn't the money to buy temporary buses for the RT replacement service come out of the $8-billion Metrolinx budget.

Yes, but you would have also had the buses freed up by the completion of the Spadina extension and Sheppard LRT under the original plan. Since nothing will be completed on Sheppard before the RT reopens, if anything happens, you now have to purchase more buses to make up the difference. With Ford demanding 650 million from the Crosstown rather than actually reading the text of the agreement he signed, there is going to be severe pressure against that sort of increase in the cost of the project. The way around this would have been to use buses purchased for service improvements and reassign them to the RT shuttle while postponing those improvements until after the project was completed. With that option apparently off the table now, you now have to wonder where all the buses needed for the RT shutdown will come from.

[Mike]

 

 

You're still going to need regular bus service across all of Eglinton as the subway stop spacings are wider than those along Bloor-Danforth. For this reason, the 100 bus could still route into Yonge-Eglinton and another route in the west end (73? 63? 90?) could run across Eglinton through the bustling York-Eglinton area.

I would keep routes along Eglinton (32/34) at reduced frequencies similar to 85 along Sheppard subway. 100 would be shortened to Don Mills and Eglinton.

[andrew]

I like your suggestion for extending the Mississauga Transitway through Etobicoke. This would result most likely into a side-of-roadway ROW through the Richview Expressway lands, which could be easily converted into light-rail ROW in the future. Those stop spacings also make more sense than having to serve all the lesser used midblocks as well (Emmett, Mulham, Eden Valley, Wincott, etc.). You're still going to need regular bus service across all of Eglinton as the subway stop spacings are wider than those along Bloor-Danforth. For this reason, the 100 bus could still route into Yonge-Eglinton and another route in the west end (73? 63? 90?) could run across Eglinton through the bustling York-Eglinton area.

Now that Leslie/Eglinton is a subway stop, wouldn't it be more feasible to build a small bus terminal on-site for the 51 and 54 than incur a detour? I like the idea of having routes terminate where they first encounter the Eglinton line than looping all over the place. Other than that, great suggestions.

I don't think that Metrolinx has announced final station locations yet. I was assuming that there would not be a station at Leslie and Eglinton, since there is hardly anything there other than a park and a Toyota car dealership, though there are some office parks on the east side of Leslie between Eglinton and Lawrence. Plus if the downtown relief line proposal is ever built, it would likely terminate at Eglinton & Don Mills, hence the rerouting of 51, 54 and 100 to a large Don Mills/Eglinton bus station.

[new.flyer.408]

I don't think that Metrolinx has announced final station locations yet. I was assuming that there would not be a station at Leslie and Eglinton, since there is hardly anything there other than a park and a Toyota car dealership, though there are some office parks on the east side of Leslie between Eglinton and Lawrence. Plus if the downtown relief line proposal is ever built, it would likely terminate at Eglinton & Don Mills, hence the rerouting of 51, 54 and 100 to a large Don Mills/Eglinton bus station.

Station locations have not been finalised, but a basic idea is on their site.

[Gil]

Station locations have not been finalised, but a basic idea is on their site.

I guess they haven't finalized the western endpoint of the line or are they actually considering running the portion west of Keele above ground contrary to Ford's demands? Keele station is designated a terminal station with Weston and Jane shown with a dotted line within the Eglinto corridor.

Also, what are they doing with branding for the line? I know they wanted to imply that it's a co-operative project between the TTC and Metrolinx. It's branded as Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown in TTC Subway font using Metrolinx' green-grey-black colour motif, but on the maps they show the line using the Scarborough RT's blue. Presonally I think "Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown" is a bit of a mouthful, kinda like Yonge-University-Spadina. I don't know what people will simplify the name into either Eglinton or Crosstown, or like the YUS line they could refer to the individual segments. Although, technically/historically you could call the section eastward from Victoria Park the Scarborough section. The underline beneath Crosstown is dashed at the left, will that be filled in as the line eventually reaches Pearson, or will that aspect of the design be completely lost on the generation that actually sees that happen?!

As for the Leslie station, it could be a simple station with the bus facilities being handled at Don Mills. People can transfer off the 51 LESLIE and 54 LAWRENCE EAST bus there if they don't want to backtrack to Don Mills.

I notice that none of the stations have cardinal appendages to differentiate the stations from the Sheppard and Bloor-Danforth lines. I'm guessing since it's not a subway per se they're not going to enforce the naming conventions. The map will start to look like Chicago with duplicate names on different lines. Although I did notice the hyphenation of the Eglinton-Yonge station, but strangely not at Eglinton West. I'm hoping that they don't go to the trouble of renaming Eglinton to Eglinton-Yonge (or Yonge-Eglinton) The setup at Bloor/Yonge station seems to work, I don't know why they did what they did at Sheppard-Yonge.

[Shaun]

I don't think that Metrolinx has announced final station locations yet. I was assuming that there would not be a station at Leslie and Eglinton, since there is hardly anything there other than a park and a Toyota car dealership, though there are some office parks on the east side of Leslie between Eglinton and Lawrence. Plus if the downtown relief line proposal is ever built, it would likely terminate at Eglinton & Don Mills, hence the rerouting of 51, 54 and 100 to a large Don Mills/Eglinton bus station.

I would think that there would be a station considering the "Toyota Dealership" is also a Hotel, and there are plans to develop it. There are also a lot of commercial properties north of there within walking distance. And a lot of people use Sunny brook Park.

[Hobble123]

I would think that there would be a station considering the "Toyota Dealership" is also a Hotel, and there are plans to develop it. There are also a lot of commercial properties north of there within walking distance. And a lot of people use Sunny brook Park.

Don't forget that Leslie/Eglinton will someday be a major transfer stop between the subway and the Midtown GO train line. A terminal for the 51, 54, 88 wouldn't even be that complicated since no private owner expropriation would be involved (crown land). If the terminal were at Don Mills/Eglinton, frequencies on the 51 would have to go up if the 54 discontinued service along Leslie St in order to serve all those office towers during AM/PM rush.

Also I think the total station list has already been finalized for some time now: Jane, Weston, Keele/Trethewey, Caledonia, Dufferin, Oakwood, Allen, Bathurst, Chaplin, Avenue, Yonge, Mt Pleasant, Bayview, Laird, Leslie, Don Mills, Wynford, Bermondsey, Victoria Park, Warden, Birchmount, (Kennedy, Lawrence East, Midland, Scarborough Centre, McCowan) = 26 stations.

[skyfirenet]

Don't forget that Leslie/Eglinton will someday be a major transfer stop between the subway and the Midtown GO train line.

Actually, Leslie/Eglinton has never been on anyone's radar for a GO station. It's always been Agincourt, Summerhill, Kipling & possibly Dupont that have been targeted as the transfer points between the hypothetical Midtown GO line and the subway network. And I stress the hypothetical part of that because CP has basically refused to consider the idea of a Midtown GO line until a third track is built between Agincourt Yard and West Toronto.

[Shaun]

Actually, Leslie/Eglinton has never been on anyone's radar for a GO station. It's always been Agincourt, Summerhill, Kipling & possibly Dupont that have been targeted as the transfer points between the hypothetical Midtown GO line and the subway network. And I stress the hypothetical part of that because CP has basically refused to consider the idea of a Midtown GO line until a third track is built between Agincourt Yard and West Toronto.

The Richmond Hill GO Train goes through there, and it would be a good transfer point if all day service was ever introduced, not to mention allow people from up north to commute to Mid Town.

Currently a few people get off at Oriole Station to transfer to the sheppard line in the morning.

[skyfirenet]

The Richmond Hill GO Train goes through there, and it would be a good transfer point if all day service was ever introduced, not to mention allow people from up north to commute to Mid Town.

Um, The Richmond Hill line doesn't go anywhere near there. The point where it crosses under the CP line is closer to Lawrence & Victoria Park than Eglinton & Leslie and it's not exactly a short climb between the two at that point.

The other thing to bear in mind is that GO transit still views connections with other transit systems more as a happy coincidence rather than a planned occurrence. That's why the Oriole-Leslie connection is very similar to the one at Danforth-Main (long and exposed to the elements) even though they were able to avoid that which is why only a few people use it.