Eglinton Crosstown line

[drum118]

Based on information presented at Metrolinx today, the bridge over the Don is still being looked at and it would cost $100m less than tunnelling. It will run beside Eglinton.

Going from the station map presented, Ellesmere station is gone (which should be) with Oakwood mark in red. Keele and Jane also are marked in red. It shows the 26 stations for the line.

Final numbers of station and location still have to be determined and will be subject to connections as well ridership. There is talk that all GO lines will connect to this line including the RH.

All LRTs will be automated from day one and have the ability to come manual when the line gets extended.

The line is officially known and will be market as the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown line as well CROSSTOWN with Cross being black in colour to match TTC and town in green, to match Metrolinx colour.

There will be 3 PIC in the fall for the design of the first 5 stations that will be come standards for the rest of the system.

Ridership is expected to be 12,000 per hour by 2031 with headway between 90-120 seconds. Off peak will be 6 minutes using 3 cars trains from day one.

Ridership will be the highest east of Yonge and falling off around Dufferin.

Substations will be every 2nd station and will blend into the existing area.

[BBfellow]

A concourse and elaborate station designs just for an LRT? Why can't there be just simple stairs to surface?

[Articulated]

A concourse and elaborate station designs just for an LRT? Why can't there be just simple stairs to surface?

The LRT is being designed to subway standards for the potential future conversion; therefore it needs to be designed so people don't have to walk across tracks, and therefore a concourse level is required.

These stations are much more bare-bones than the current subway stations; compare designs of the Spadina extension or the existing Sheppard stations to these concept drawings.

[new.flyer.408]

I think the concourse level also facilitates easier fare control. These stations are also much smaller than new subway stations (considering the vehicles being used, this is easily justified).

All stations in the future hopefully will be designed as center platforms, since they appear to create lower maintenance costs.

[Articulated]

I think the concourse level also facilitates easier fare control. These stations are also much smaller than new subway stations (considering the vehicles being used, this is easily justified).

All stations in the future hopefully will be designed as center platforms, since they appear to create lower maintenance costs.

It makes a huge improvement in accessibility (only one elevator to the platform vs. an elevator per platform). Also reduces the number of escalators. I guess this also reduces the maintenance costs by having less of each to maintain.

Also, is the Eglinton-Crosstown line going to be traditional fare-paid zones like the subway or be POP using Presto? The drawings and presentation have no mention of fare gates or collector booths, which makes me think the latter.

[BBfellow]

I can already imagine the signage...

And then the wall treatment...

[Gil]

I take it then that since it isn't exactly a subway line they won't be adhering to the subway station naming convention. Hence the duplication of station names from the Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard lines. Since only a handful of stations will get bus terminals it shouldn't be a problem. The only one I can think of would be the Don Mills station. If they're serious about corporate sponsorship of stations, perhaps they could persuade Cadillac-Fairview to buy the rights to rename Don Mills to Fairview. We do after all have a Yorkdale station (does/did the TTC get anything for that name?!) and a Scarborough Centre (which is named after the civic centre and not the mall, but it works either way). On the other hand the Eglinton line's (I'll still call it that, with the Scarborough portion as an "appendix") Don Mills station could be called Science Centre if they wanted to cough up the cash.

[torontottc7]

Must of been a little typo as the Eglinton LRT ends at Black Creek, and I believe calling Avenue Road Avenue makes no sense because it will sound completely out of place. These are my 2 cents

[new.flyer.408]

I take it then that since it isn't exactly a subway line they won't be adhering to the subway station naming convention. Hence the duplication of station names from the Bloor-Danforth and Sheppard lines. Since only a handful of stations will get bus terminals it shouldn't be a problem. The only one I can think of would be the Don Mills station. If they're serious about corporate sponsorship of stations, perhaps they could persuade Cadillac-Fairview to buy the rights to rename Don Mills to Fairview. We do after all have a Yorkdale station (does/did the TTC get anything for that name?!) and a Scarborough Centre (which is named after the civic centre and not the mall, but it works either way). On the other hand the Eglinton line's (I'll still call it that, with the Scarborough portion as an "appendix") Don Mills station could be called Science Centre if they wanted to cough up the cash.

But the SRT follows the subway line naming convention, so it may still follow it.

What I think is that TTC will give up on north-south directional naming, but leave whatever's already there (e.g. Eglinton West, Lawrence East) - or follow the MTA and just remove all directional naming.

Does anyone know what fare collection is like on the line? Presto is being implemented on the line, but does this mean full collector booths + turnstiles, or just plain POP?

[wil9402]

But the SRT follows the subway line naming convention, so it may still follow it.

What I think is that TTC will give up on north-south directional naming, but leave whatever's already there (e.g. Eglinton West, Lawrence East) - or follow the MTA and just remove all directional naming.

Does anyone know what fare collection is like on the line? Presto is being implemented on the line, but does this mean full collector booths + turnstiles, or just plain POP?

IIRC, POP has always been the plan for the Transit City network (and the "legacy" network as well) so I would be surprised if they do not go with it.

[smallspy]

IIRC, POP has always been the plan for the Transit City network (and the "legacy" network as well) so I would be surprised if they do not go with it.

POP was the plan for the Transit City network, yes. However, integrating the SRT and Eglinton was not, and the SRT stations are not set up for POP.

Dan

[DavidH]

POP was the plan for the Transit City network, yes. However, integrating the SRT and Eglinton was not, and the SRT stations are not set up for POP.

Given the work that will be on the SRT to convert to LRT anyway, getting rid of the fare barriers and putting in a few Presto/ticket vending machines at each station will hardly be prohibitive.

[Articulated]

Given that the plan for the Eglinton-Scarborough-Crosstown LRT will be POP, does anyone know how transfers to the subways will work? Will it have to work like the old days where there are fare gates between the LRT and subway, or will the TTC just hope that everyone entering the subway from the LRT already paid their fares?

[Prometheus]

POP was the plan for the Transit City network, yes. However, integrating the SRT and Eglinton was not, and the SRT stations are not set up for POP.

Also, the doors layout of the new streetcars makes sense on a POP system only, so there will be some changes in the fare system anyways.

[2822]

Anyone going to the Eglinton - Scarborough Crosstown Community update at the York Civic Centre on Thursday June 30th from 7-8:30 p.m

[BBfellow]

It'll probably be similar to the YRT/Viva system. New tickets, new transfer system, etc. (the tickets still have Adam Giambrone's name on it).

Maybe on platforms, there will be a machine to insert a ticket to get a transfer. Or buy a ticket from the machine itself. (Knowing the TTC, 60% of them will work at a time.)

[nfitz]

The fare vending machines on the new legacy streetcars and at the busier streetcar stops would presumably have to issue transfers every time a fare is paid. (presumably whatever it gives you as a ticket and POP would also be a transfer).

As this technology will be deployed in a couple years, a long time before Eglinton is running, then presumably they would just deploy similar machines in the Eglinton line stations.

[rollsign29]

The fare vending machines on the new legacy streetcars and at the busier streetcar stops would presumably have to issue transfers every time a fare is paid. (presumably whatever it gives you as a ticket and POP would also be a transfer).

As this technology will be deployed in a couple years, a long time before Eglinton is running, then presumably they would just deploy similar machines in the Eglinton line stations.

The whole issue surrounding POP is interesting, and it highlight one huge flaw ... no one method of integrating the Legacy and the Transit City LRT's is being executed.

Exhibit A: The new LRT "Transit City" lines are to run on POP. Stations such as Finch West and Kennedy were to have the LRT platforms outside of the subway fare-paid area.

Exhibit B: The new Legacy cars are also supposed to run on POP. Stations such as Dundas West, Broadview, Main Street, Bathurst, Spadina and Union all feature streetcar platforms WITHIN the subway fare paid area.

So ... why not just reduce the number of headaches and simply say, hey, let's just put all of the LRT platforms within the subway fare-paid area? And upon approaching the LRT platforms from the subway, just put a notice stating "You are now entering a POP fare zone. Passengers are required to have POP with them at all times, or be subject to fines and disciplinary action" and leave it at that?

Given how busy the new LRT line(s) could end up becoming (I'm looking at places such as Eglinton West-Allen and Yonge-Eglinton) I don't think it's worth the hassle to have the LRT platforms outside of the subway fare-paid area, when the existing streetcar network will be within it.

[BBfellow]

Good idea! The stop announcements could say "You are now entering fare-paid area, please have valid with you at all times". This idea also harms people who pay and go, meaning, they pay their fare and just ride. They don't bother to get a transfer. What will they say when fare inspectors check?

[CLRV4037]

Good idea! The stop announcements could say "You are now entering fare-paid area, please have valid with you at all times". This idea also harms people who pay and go, meaning, they pay their fare and just ride. They don't bother to get a transfer. What will they say when fare inspectors check?

You MUST obtain a transfer or have a valid ticket with you in any one of the other million transit systems around the world that have proof of payment. This is already in affect on Queen St. right here in Toronto between 7am and 7pm.

Those people who are getting harmed will just have to suck it up and bother to take the little slip of paper and keep it with them.

[rollsign29]

You MUST obtain a transfer or have a valid ticket with you in any one of the other million transit systems around the world that have proof of payment. This is already in affect on Queen St. right here in Toronto between 7am and 7pm.

Those people who are getting harmed will just have to suck it up and bother to take the little slip of paper and keep it with them.

I say make the whole system POP, with some sections forcing a payment or fare to enter (i.e. the subway). This way, if you sneak in and feel that you're free to ride the subway and Mr. Inspector comes along ... guess what?

One big issue I've always had is the turnstiles and the issuance of transfers. If you put a token in the turnstile, as you go through, it should spit out a transfer for you to take. No more of this "ok junior, go get everyone a transfer" and Lil Johnny comes back with enough paper to make a Greenpeace advocate want to commit suicide. If you don't "turn your stile" and pay at the booth, the collector will give you one. This will also further support the "Get a transfer where you pay your fare" rule that barely 1/2 the riders know (let alone follow) anymore.

Stores don't give hand-outs and the TTC should stop too. If you lose it, you lose it. Tough. Pay again and don't make the same mistake twice!

[Hobble123]

Must of been a little typo as the Eglinton LRT ends at Black Creek, and I believe calling Avenue Road Avenue makes no sense because it will sound completely out of place. These are my 2 cents

Apart from "Main Street", there really is no convention to adding the street type suffix onto station names (even in Main St Station's case the namesake connecting route doesn't adhere to the convention i.e. 64 Main instead of 64 Main St).

"Avenue" sounds more dignified to me for some reason, adding "Road" onto it kinda cheapens the effect. Of course I expect in avoiding too much name duplication, neighbourhood names can be substituted. As such here's some examples:

Jane = Eglinton Flats

Weston = Mount Dennis

Keele = Trethewey

Dufferin = Fairbank ("Dufferin North" is also a possibility since "Downsview" is the placeholder further up the roadway)

Bathurst = Forest Hill

Bayview = Sunnybrook (Sunnybrook Plaza on-site, Sunnybrook Hospital short distance up the road)

Laird = Leaside (although "Laird" is original, it is the main north-south artery through Leaside and two routes - 56, 88 - through the area bare the neighbourhood name)

Leslie = Wilket Creek

Don Mills = Ontario Science Centre (or On Sci for short. It'd be nice to have at least one stop in the system acknowledge the province we're in. Lol!)

Victoria Park = Eglinton Square (I suspect the station will located at Eglinton Sq/Eglinton Ave, midway between Vic Pk and Pharmacy; plus major mall nearby)

Warden = Golden Mile (general name for the area)

Birchmount = Ionview (again a case of original name but "Birchmount" could be reserved for the future Sheppard Line)

[Shaun]

Apart from "Main Street", there really is no convention to adding the street type suffix onto station names (even in Main St Station's case the namesake connecting route doesn't adhere to the convention i.e. 64 Main instead of 64 Main St).

"Avenue" sounds more dignified to me for some reason, adding "Road" onto it kinda cheapens the effect. Of course I expect in avoiding too much name duplication, neighbourhood names can be substituted. As such here's some examples:

Jane = Eglinton Flats

Weston = Mount Dennis

Keele = Trethewey

Dufferin = Fairbank ("Dufferin North" is also a possibility since "Downsview" is the placeholder further up the roadway)

Bathurst = Forest Hill

Bayview = Sunnybrook (Sunnybrook Plaza on-site, Sunnybrook Hospital short distance up the road)

Laird = Leaside (although "Laird" is original, it is the main north-south artery through Leaside and two routes - 56, 88 - through the area bare the neighbourhood name)

Leslie = Wilket Creek

Don Mills = Ontario Science Centre (or On Sci for short. It'd be nice to have at least one stop in the system acknowledge the province we're in. Lol!)

Victoria Park = Eglinton Square (I suspect the station will located at Eglinton Sq/Eglinton Ave, midway between Vic Pk and Pharmacy; plus major mall nearby)

Warden = Golden Mile (general name for the area)

Birchmount = Ionview (again a case of original name but "Birchmount" could be reserved for the future Sheppard Line)

Rather than sell the rights to the names of the stations, why not sell the air rights above the stations? The old Eglinton Station has been left sitting there with no development for close to ten years. Instead of spending our own money on rebuilding stations like Victoria Park why not partner with Developers to build something on top of the station so help pay for the rebuilding of the station?

[2822]

I went to the meeting last Thursday for the Eglinton LRT at the York Civic Centre. A lot of people were upset the construction is going to start at Black Creek Drive and not Jane Street even though the section from Black Creek to Jane is currently in the progress of going through an EA. Some MT. Dennis residents were not happy that the storage yard will likely be located on the old Kodak lands at Black Creek Drive and Eglinton. I should also point out that transportation Minister Kathleen Whynn was 20 minutes late for the meeting but she blamed it on Eglinton traffic so she made a good point as to why the Eglinton line is long over do.

[wil9402]

Birchmount = Ionview (again a case of original name but "Birchmount" could be reserved for the future Sheppard Line)

Using Ionview would confuse passengers in to thinking the stop was actually at Ionview Rd, which is a few blocks east (a block west of Kennedy Rd), since Ionview Rd was suppose to get a stop on the old above ground plan for the Eglinton LRT.