Winnipeg Transit and area

[Isaac Williams]

If you go into My Settings, and turn on "Include school routes in results?", School Charters should show up when you click on stops on the map.

[Isaac Williams]

New routing changes have been proposed for a few routes for the Winter schedule (December 11th), the most interesting being the 87 and 93. They want to split the 87 into two routes - the 86 Mission Gardens (Northern Branch) and 87 Industrial (Southern Branch). Other than that, they'll (probably) operate the same way they do now. The 93 is to be extended to Avalon Loop and have it's routing in South St. Vital changed significantly. There are also minor changes to the 45, 98 and BLUE.
https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=22197

 
 

[matt548]

53 minutes ago, Isaac Williams said:

New routing changes have been proposed for a few routes for the Winter schedule, the most interesting being the 87 and 93. They want to split the 87 into two routes - the 86 and 87. Other than that, they'll (probably) operate the same way they do now. The 93 is to be extended to Avalon Loop and have it's routing in South St. Vital changed significantly.
https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=22197

 
 

Those are pretty good changes! 

On a side note, this is the 3rd completely different route 86

[cslusarc]

I like this transit priority u-turn signal — allowing busses to perform a u-turn from the rightmost lane.

[ConnorsCompShow]

Late addition onto next week's IRPW from the Lord Selkirk/West Kildonan committee, apparently there's a proposal for a fare-free day on the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation (9/30). Estimated pocketbook hit of $120,000 if implemented. Guess we'll see if it survives beyond IRPW or not.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/permalink.asp?id=A20220907(RM)PW-57

[Isaac Williams]

32 minutes ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

Late addition onto next week's IRPW from the Lord Selkirk/West Kildonan committee, apparently there's a proposal for a fare-free day on the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation (9/30). Estimated pocketbook hit of $120,000 if implemented. Guess we'll see if it survives beyond IRPW or not.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/permalink.asp?id=A20220907(RM)PW-57

It seems transit will be running regular weekday service on that day too. So I'll definitely be one to take advantage of it, if it gets approved.

[Isaac Williams]

On 8/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, ConnorsCompShow said:

Good riddance to SB Pembina/Kelsey, but I dunno about EB Portage/Lake. They ought to get rid of EB Portage/Olive that's for sure.

Another example of stops being too close together is WB Inkster at Sinclair and WB Inkster at Sinclair East (both of which are on the east side of Sinclair). Google Maps measures them to be approximately 71 meters apart. For context, both stops around EB Portage at Olive are approximately 100 meters away from it.

[ConnorsCompShow]

On 9/2/2022 at 9:49 PM, ConnorsCompShow said:

Late addition onto next week's IRPW from the Lord Selkirk/West Kildonan committee, apparently there's a proposal for a fare-free day on the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation (9/30). Estimated pocketbook hit of $120,000 if implemented. Guess we'll see if it survives beyond IRPW or not.

http://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/permalink.asp?id=A20220907(RM)PW-57

It has survived IRPW unanimously and moves on to council as a whole. There were some thoughts of offering free rides only during a specific time window, but that was written off for practicality reasons, though Sharma challenged Bjorn Radstrom on the New Year's Eve 7:00 PM-end of service free rides, Bjorn's defense after he was hung for a few seconds was that NYE isn't about any one specific event whereas free rides on NT&RD would be primarily in support of the Survivors Walk and a pow-wow to follow. Greg the director when asked by Allard about had his memory tested trying to remember the value of the NYE sponsorship that is fronted by MPI (after Browaty brought up that the NYE program is subsidized by a sponsor) but figures it was ~$14,000. Bjorn elaborated that the ~$120K was the high-end estimated pocketbook hit. Browaty had objections to the lack of an identified funding source and urged "I am putting it out there to anybody who's watching on TV or at home, anybody who would like to sponsor this, either in full or in part" but was willing to vote in favor for now.

Blooper: Markus Chambers accidentally thought he was sitting next to Janice Lukes.

[Isaac Williams]

As some of you may know, pass-up information is publicly available. I've created an app that can interpret that data. I thought some of you might be interested to see what pass-ups have been like over the past week (since September 4th), now that the U of M is finally back in full-swing.

[matt548]

4 hours ago, Isaac Williams said:

As some of you may know, pass-up information is publicly available. I've created an app that can interpret that data. I thought some of you might be interested to see what pass-ups have been like over the past week (since September 4th), now that the U of M is finally back in full-swing.

Why is 78 so low but 75 so high? 

[Isaac Williams]

10 minutes ago, matt548 said:

Why is 78 so low but 75 so high? 

The 75 always has much more traffic than the 78 (hence why it has so many buses). Since 2010, the 75 has 9,882 listed pass-ups (2nd most, below the 11), while the 78 has 2,538 (21st most, and includes the Kenaston branch before 2018). If you're interested in more recent data only, in 2019 the 75 had 1,758 pass-ups (2nd most, below the 162) and the 78 had 442 (13th most).

[Isaac Williams]

After 3 weeks, this is what pass-ups are like since the 2022 Fall schedule began (September 4th). The BLUE and 75 (which is 40-foot-only) continue to go out of control, with 9 other routes above 1 per day. The 75 really should get artics, whatever it takes, and artics could be revoked from the 59 (which has 0 pass-ups so far) and 35 (which has 1).

In the list below, if you see "(A)", that means that route is supposed to get artics.

Route BLUE - 296 (A)
Route 75 - 223
Route 60 - 91 (A)
Route 11 - 89
Route 47 - 74
Route 36 - 44 (A)
Route 672 - 42 (A)
Route 78 - 41
Route 662 - 34
Route 19 - 27
Route 671 - 24 (A)
Route 18 - 19
Route 24 - 19
Route 14 - 18
Route 66 - 16
Route 74 - 15
Route 15 - 12
Route 44 - 11
Route 16 - 9
Route 17 - 6
Route 90 - 6
Route 50 - 6
Route S428 - 6
Route 55 - 6
Route S427 - 6
Route 21 - 5
Route S419 - 5
Route 33 - 4
Route 77 - 4
Route 54 - 4 (A)
Route S430 - 3
Route 38 - 3
Route 677 - 2
Route 28 - 2
Route 49 - 2
Route S426 - 2
Route 20 - 1
Route 58 - 1
Route 22 - 1
Route 649 - 1
Route 35 - 1 (A)
Route 41 - 1
Route 59 - 0  (A)

[NFIBUSES_are_awsome]

On 9/26/2022 at 7:08 PM, Isaac Williams said:

After 3 weeks, this is what pass-ups are like since the 2022 Fall schedule began (September 4th). The BLUE and 75 (which is 40-foot-only) continue to go out of control, with 9 other routes above 1 per day. The 75 really should get artics, whatever it takes, and artics could be revoked from the 59 (which has 0 pass-ups so far) and 35 (which has 1).

In the list below, if you see "(A)", that means that route is supposed to get artics.

Route BLUE - 296 (A)
Route 75 - 223
Route 60 - 91 (A)
Route 11 - 89
Route 47 - 74
Route 36 - 44 (A)
Route 672 - 42 (A)
Route 78 - 41
Route 662 - 34
Route 19 - 27
Route 671 - 24 (A)
Route 18 - 19
Route 24 - 19
Route 14 - 18
Route 66 - 16
Route 74 - 15
Route 15 - 12
Route 44 - 11
Route 16 - 9
Route 17 - 6
Route 90 - 6
Route 50 - 6
Route S428 - 6
Route 55 - 6
Route S427 - 6
Route 21 - 5
Route S419 - 5
Route 33 - 4
Route 77 - 4
Route 54 - 4 (A)
Route S430 - 3
Route 38 - 3
Route 677 - 2
Route 28 - 2
Route 49 - 2
Route S426 - 2
Route 20 - 1
Route 58 - 1
Route 22 - 1
Route 649 - 1
Route 35 - 1 (A)
Route 41 - 1
Route 59 - 0  (A)

When are we getting new artics 

[Viafreak]

4 hours ago, NFIBUSES_are_awsome said:

When are we getting new artics 

They are on order. Not sure exactly when they will be delivered.

[armorand]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:08 PM, Isaac Williams said:

After 3 weeks, this is what pass-ups are like since the 2022 Fall schedule began (September 4th). The BLUE and 75 (which is 40-foot-only) continue to go out of control, with 9 other routes above 1 per day. The 75 really should get artics, whatever it takes, and artics could be revoked from the 59 (which has 0 pass-ups so far) and 35 (which has 1).

In the list below, if you see "(A)", that means that route is supposed to get artics.

Route BLUE - 296 (A)
Route 75 - 223
Route 60 - 91 (A)
Route 11 - 89
Route 47 - 74
Route 36 - 44 (A)
Route 672 - 42 (A)
Route 78 - 41
Route 662 - 34
Route 19 - 27
Route 671 - 24 (A)
Route 18 - 19
Route 24 - 19
Route 14 - 18
Route 66 - 16
Route 74 - 15
Route 15 - 12
Route 44 - 11
Route 16 - 9
Route 17 - 6
Route 90 - 6
Route 50 - 6
Route S428 - 6
Route 55 - 6
Route S427 - 6
Route 21 - 5
Route S419 - 5
Route 33 - 4
Route 77 - 4
Route 54 - 4 (A)
Route S430 - 3
Route 38 - 3
Route 677 - 2
Route 28 - 2
Route 49 - 2
Route S426 - 2
Route 20 - 1
Route 58 - 1
Route 22 - 1
Route 649 - 1
Route 35 - 1 (A)
Route 41 - 1
Route 59 - 0  (A)

With all of that transit way frequency, and pass-ups are somehow getting WORSE?!?!?! My god... Winnipeg Transit must be screwing up hard lately, especially compared to when I used to live there growing up.

At this point, maybe they were better off building LRT after all. Especially with a vast majority of these pass-ups presumably involving the U of M, since Downtown Winnipeg's pretty much a ghost town after COVID, maybe they could cut their precious St. Vital services & send some of those buses onto the Transitway and towards the U of M.

 

[Isaac Williams]

9 hours ago, armorand said:

With all of that transit way frequency, and pass-ups are somehow getting WORSE?!?!?! My god... Winnipeg Transit must be screwing up hard lately, especially compared to when I used to live there growing up.

At this point, maybe they were better off building LRT after all. Especially with a vast majority of these pass-ups presumably involving the U of M, since Downtown Winnipeg's pretty much a ghost town after COVID, maybe they could cut their precious St. Vital services & send some of those buses onto the Transitway and towards the U of M.

Regardless of the reason for the pass-ups, we shouldn't cut service anywhere. They already did enough of that in 2020. I'm sure a good chunk of the pass-ups on the BLUE come from 40-foot buses, because we don't have enough artics. Getting more artics and putting them on the 75 would help a lot too. The 47 and the Sunday 11 could also benefit from artics.

[wt_enthusiast_photos]

2 hours ago, Isaac Williams said:

Regardless of the reason for the pass-ups, we shouldn't cut service anywhere. They already did enough of that in 2020. I'm sure a good chunk of the pass-ups on the BLUE come from 40-foot buses, because we don't have enough artics. Getting more artics and putting them on the 75 would help a lot too. The Sunday 11 and the 47 could also benefit from artics.

47 doesn’t need artics. As a person who uses the 47 every Sunday. I can tell you. That they don’t need artic. If anything maybe add another bus from 9am-7pm so buses aren’t running 30 mins

[Viafreak]

A few years ago, an artic ended up on the 11. This was before COVID so it might have been 2019 at the latest. I know the artics can turn sharp however there might be some adjustments needed to the road geometry. Even though most of the 11's northern terminus area (North Kildonan) is relatively new by Winnipeg standards, there are some tight turns. The southern/western terminus area (Westwood-Crestview) is even older than that. 

Most of the 47's eastern terminus area is still how it was when Winnipeg started running buses to Transcona. There has been some slight improvement on the eastern fringe of that area but to get there from Kildonan Place would involve streets with poor geometry.

With the 11, Transit would have to change the geometry of certain bus loops. The 11 serves 5 actual loops with another 3 on-street loops around malls and hospitals. The 47 only has the KP loop to worry about. If it comes down to that loop, it might not see 47 service. Not sure why it is still on the 47.

The current routes served by the artics serve areas where these issues are not a huge factor.

[SirAndrew710]

16 minutes ago, Viafreak said:

With the 11, Transit would have to change the geometry of certain bus loops. The 11 serves 5 actual loops with another 3 on-street loops around malls and hospitals.

The Grace probably wouldn’t be too hard to get in or out of, but the others in Assiniboia might be a bit harder. Rouge and Lumsden both look like they could be tight, though in both cases, it’s two left turns to get into the loop, which could probably be done in one motion. In addition, the 11/21/25 bay at Unicity probably couldn’t fit an artic.

[Viafreak]

25 minutes ago, SirAndrew710 said:

The Grace probably wouldn’t be too hard to get in or out of, but the others in Assiniboia might be a bit harder. Rouge and Lumsden both look like they could be tight, though in both cases, it’s two left turns to get into the loop, which could probably be done in one motion. In addition, the 11/21/25 bay at Unicity probably couldn’t fit an artic.

Thanks for the details on the 11's western loops. I am more familiar with the eastern/northern end of the 11. The only turn other than the loops that concerns me is the left turn from WB Sutton to SB Henderson that is performed by inbound 11/41 service from Donwood. Often the buses are blocking the northbound lanes of Henderson while trying to make the left turn into the southbound lanes. One time when I was on the 41, our bus driver turned into the Safeway parking lot by mistake, and we turned onto Henderson at Whellems Lane. That detour that we made that one day is much safer than the current routing. I think it would be doable with an artic.

[cslusarc]

I think the primary problem with the 11 is on Evenings and Sundays when the 21 Portage Express does not operate.   On Sundays the "Shoppers' Specials" between Polo Park and Downtown tend to be poorly loaded while the regular 11s from Portage West to North Kildonan are packed to the gills and perennially late.   The 21 should operate to Portage West terminals on Sundays when Polo Park is open, currently 11am - 6pm 

[Isaac Williams]

I don't have actual ridership numbers, but I do have the pass-up open data. According to that data, since September 4th, the 11 passes up on Sundays more often than on any other day (31 so far on Sundays, vs. an average of 13-14 from Monday to Saturday). The 11 also most commonly passes up between 4:00 PM and 7:59 PM. Additionally, the 11 mostly passes up from Downtown to Polo Park, with 95 coming in that range, vs 18 elsewhere.

As far as artics on the Sunday 11 is concerned, while I've obviously never driven an artic, I've ridden and watched them many times, and know that they're more versatile than they look. Most, if not all turns on the route should be doable with a well-trained driver. Obviously, the terminal at Unicity is not designed with artics in mind, but I don't think it's a deal-breaker. On Sundays, Unicity Terminal only has 2 routes: 11 and 24. The 24 stop could be moved to a different slot, so artics aren't blocking it, and passengers exiting via the rear-most door just need to use caution and common sense. If that's too much of a problem, Unicity can still be avoided. Because of the way the Sunday 11 is scheduled, three 11's go in and out of Westwood (11-2, 11-8, 11-9), three in and out of Crestview (11-1, 11-3, 11-5), and three in and out of St. Charles (11-4, 11-6, 11-7). The three 11's that go to St. Charles could be 40-foot, while the other six 11's could get artics. The three short-turn 11's between Pacific and Polo Park would also have no trouble with Artics.

Another conversation we should be having is artics on the 75, on weekdays. The only two problems I can think of when it comes to artics on the 75 is the KP loop and stops on Bishop Grandin. The stops on Bishop can be relocated to make them artic-friendly, but I'm not really sure what you do with KP loop. IIRC, the regular 75 has gotten an artic at least once, and it was able to navigate KP loop, albeit blocking at least one other stop while waiting to depart. I'm not sure what a more practical solution would be.

[cslusarc]

13 hours ago, Isaac Williams said:

Another conversation we should be having is artics on the 75, on weekdays.

Pre-COVID, I occasionally rode the 75 between Kildonan Place and St Vital Centre.   Between September and April the bus was packed.   I hated the Willowlake & Beaverhill diversion because on most of my trips no one got on or off the bus on the diversion.  My thought is Route 75 needs to be split into 3 routes with the latter 2 having 3-digit route numbers:  the main trip between Kildonan Place and the University, the Windsor Park terminators and a shuttle between the University and a clookwise loop on Beaverhill and Willowlake.

[SirAndrew710]

13 hours ago, Isaac Williams said:

The 24 stop could be moved to a different slot, so artics aren't blocking it, and passengers exiting via the rear-most door just need to use caution and common sense.

Switching the 24 and 82/83 bays around could work. The way the 11, 82 and 83 are scheduled, there’s only a small chance of layover  conflicts on weekdays and none on Saturdays.

18 minutes ago, cslusarc said:

My thought is Route 75 needs to be split into 3 routes with the latter 2 having 3-digit route numbers:  the main trip between Kildonan Place and the University, the Windsor Park terminators and a shuttle between the University and a clookwise loop on Beaverhill and Willowlake.

Maybe even split it into only two. For example, the 75 could head straight up Lakewood on all trips between the U of M and KP, and have a new route, maybe numbered 76, go between the U of M and Southdale Centre, doing the Willowlake dogleg on all trips.

[Isaac Williams]

The 96 already goes around Willowlake, so it might make sense to have the 96 run all-day and on weekends, then the 75 can go straight-through on Lakewood. For the 96, I'd probably run it with 3 or 4 buses during rush hour, operating the full-length of the route, and with 2 buses during off-peak hours and weekends, between St. Vital Centre and Southdale Centre only. The 75 would still have the buses that start at Southdale Centre (though they should start at Windsor Park) in the morning, and the buses that end at Windsor Park in the afternoon.