TTC GM Fishbowl Retirements Watch

[Transit2000]

Things were quite lonely out there today... Well, I don't really want to bring this up again because I know it will get shot down, oh well here it goes... I was really thinking of state of the art Fishbowl buses that could run in Toronto one day again. They'd still be high floor, otherwise it would look hideous, and would retain some specs from the T6H-5307N bus. So, while being state of the art, they'd still look, sound and feel like a T6H-5307N. You might think I'm out of mind saying this, but why not. Indeed, it would be sort of the same thing like London's New Routemaster bus. Of coarse, someone's gonna shoot the idea down as was already done.

On the other hand, not trying to criticize, but it seems most of you are grieving from the fact the Fishbowls are gone, but also just want to move on from them and don't mind never seeing them again. Which doesn't make any sense. As a die hard Fishbowl fan myself, I'd love to see state of the art Fishbowls on the road in the future.

[FlyerD901]

Well, I meet with they guy who decides weather a bus will be retired or not. He said that he's still looking at GMs for the TTC historical fleet. Which ever GM is used will be kept at TTC and they are still plans to keep two GMs. Everything will go according to plans untill they actually cut funding. 2426 was looked at today and failed. 2444 and 2281 were the two that are still being considered. He still needs to look at 2252. There is two other GMs he mentioned but I forgot the numbers he gave me. Its either 2326 or 2413, but I forget.

I also got word that when 2252 is back, no other GM will be used on the Island. There was even talk of 8058 in Halton. BUt the chances of that are slim especially with cuts to TTC funding.

[* Mr. Black *]

Well, I meet with they guy who decides weather a bus will be retired or not. He said that he's still looking at GMs for the TTC historical fleet. Which ever GM is used will be kept at TTC and they are still plans to keep two GMs. Everything will go according to plans untill they actually cut funding. 2426 was looked at today and failed. 2444 and 2281 were the two that are still being considered. He still needs to look at 2252. There is two other GMs he mentioned but I forgot the numbers he gave me. Its either 2326 or 2413, but I forget.

I also got word that when 2252 is back, no other GM will be used on the Island. There was even talk of 8058 in Halton. BUt the chances of that are slim especially with cuts to TTC funding.

so 2345 failed then? hopefully the powers that be will consider repainting one into Maroon and Cream....

[T3G]

Which ever GM is used will be kept at TTC and they are still plans to keep two GMs. Everything will go according to plans untill they actually cut funding. 2426 was looked at today and failed. 2444 and 2281 were the two that are still being considered.

Well, here's hoping that they do decide to keep them after all. Be nice if 2281 got retained, given its significance and all, but at this rate, I'd be happy for any to be kept. Fingers crossed.

[FlyerD901]

so 2345 failed then? hopefully the powers that be will consider repainting one into Maroon and Cream....

I brought that up when I was talking to him. If everything goes well funding wise, they will most likely repaint at least one into the Maroon Cream colours.

There stil needs to be a photo-op with 2281 and the last driver to drive them, from what I was told.

Well, I meet with they guy who decides weather a bus will be retired or not. He said that he's still looking at GMs for the TTC historical fleet. Which ever GM is used will be kept at TTC and they are still plans to keep two GMs. Everything will go according to plans untill they actually cut funding. 2426 was looked at today and failed. 2444 and 2281 were the two that are still being considered. He still needs to look at 2252. There is two other GMs he mentioned but I forgot the numbers he gave me. Its either 2326 or 2413, but I forget.

I also got word that when 2252 is back, no other GM will be used on the Island. There was even talk of 8058 in Halton. BUt the chances of that are slim especially with cuts to TTC funding.

It wasn't 2426 that was looked at, it was actually 2428. 2426 is in the scrap line in Hillcrest.

[ttc9426]

I brought that up when I was talking to him. If everything goes well funding wise, they will most likely repaint at least one into the Maroon Cream colours.

There stil needs to be a photo-op with 2281 and the last driver to drive them, from what I was told.

It wasn't 2426 that was looked at, it was actually 2428. 2426 is in the scrap line in Hillcrest.

Too bad 2428 failed. That was my favorite one.

[greekguy1326]

Yea, too bad 2428 failed! 

[FlyerD901]

Too bad 2428 failed. That was my favorite one.

it was ok its just that there are better GMs than that. I just wish the GMs lasted long enough to see the hybrids off warranty....

[Downsview 108]

it was ok its just that there were better GMs than that. I just wish the GMs lasted long enough to see the hybrids off warranty....

Don't get me started.

2920 would have been a perfect candidate. it was a first gen fishbowl 1959 that they used to test the hoists at Hillcrest and was sitting there up until 2001. prefect shape.

Or even ex-3122 the CNG fishbowl.

So I have little faith in this.

[D. DeLarge]

Don't get me started.

2920 would have been a perfect candidate. it was a first gen fishbowl 1959 that they used to test the hoists at Hillcrest and was sitting there up until 2001. prefect shape.

Or even ex-3122 the CNG fishbowl.

So I have little faith in this.

Well, at the time, there were plenty of other fishbowsl in active service...

[D40-90]

I'm waiting untill funding is secure to really believe in this GM rebuild.

[RailBus63]

If anything I think we'll see less interest in vehicles themselves and more interest in the broader aspects of transit, such as service planning, routes, expansion, etc on forums like this. Those young folk on here who have to use transit to get to school or work on a daily basis will continue to have an interest, as they're out on it everyday, but I think as time goes on the average working-age bus fan is going to venture out less overall with camera-in-hand. We will see a similar rage when the current streetcar fleet starts to disappear, but the days devoted to bus pursuits by enthusiasts are likely not going to be as prominent.

Sorry, but some of you folks are seriously overreacting here. The TTC New Looks are not the first 'old' buses to be retired and they will not be the last. As another poster noted, the same sort of reactions were heard when the streetcars were replaced by buses, when the Old Looks disappeared, when the PCC's disappeared, and so on. And yet there are still thousands of bus enthusiasts in North America. Heck, most of the New York area fans are too young to remember the New Looks there and are bemoaning the coming demise of the RTS bus.

I’ve been in this hobby for over 30 years. I went through my own period where my favorite transit vehicles that I grew up with were gradually retired and I wondered myself how interesting the hobby would be going forward. I’m happy to report that my interest in urban transit is still going strong after all these years. I’ll never forget the vehicles of my youth, but I find all of today’s modern buses interesting in their own right. Just remember – today’s ‘new’ buses will be antiques someday. It’s easy to ignore the everyday but many of us remember when the New Looks were utterly common buses and nothing special at all. The fans I admired back then were the ones who took lots of photos of every kind of transit vehicle, and I've tried over the years to get photos of such ‘everyday’ buses and rail vehicles going about their business in many different locations. If I get bored with one system, I give it a rest and do some traveling to other cities I haven't been to in a while, or ever. Then when I go back, it's like visiting an old friend and it's fresh and fun again.

Be glad that the TTC New Looks had a long run and that you had enough advance warning to get your last rides and busfanning trips in, but don't let your disappointment poison yourself and others around you. Nobody likes those people. When I was a youngster, I remember seeing and hearing those old guys who did nothing but complain about how all the best streetcars and buses were gone and how everything nowadays was lousy and the good ol' days were long gone by. That was back in the mid to late 1970's. I'm guessing that a lot of you who are reading this would do just about anything to jump back in time machine to such a 'lousy' time, wouldn't you?

Jim

[Downsview 108]

Well, at the time, there were plenty of other fishbowsl in active service...

They must have kept the first gen bowl for a reason though. They retired those 30 years ago.

[Tom1122]

While it would be good that TTC painted one fishbowl in the maroon and cream, the thing is that none of the fishbowls that ran after 2008 were ever painted in maroon and cream. IIRC, the last fishbowl that ever wore maroon and cream was 2153 and that's long gone.

[t_harris01]

If the TTC keeps a fishbowl for historical purposes can it still be used for charters

[D. DeLarge]

If the TTC keeps a fishbowl for historical purposes can it still be used for charters

I'd like to think so...otherwise why keep one around.

[Seashore_518203]

If the TTC keeps a fishbowl for historical purposes can it still be used for charters

Not at the prices that they charge ...

[t_harris01]

Ya but if its the only way to ride it again in the future might be worth a charter again

[smallspy]

2920 would have been a perfect candidate. it was a first gen fishbowl 1959 that they used to test the hoists at Hillcrest and was sitting there up until 2001. prefect shape.

No....no it wouldn't have. It had all its mechanical bits ripped out, and I'd bet you that what little frame exists in a New Look was distorted to shit by the loading and unloading of water in the tanks they installed in it.

Dan

[Transit2000]

If the TTC keeps one or two, I wouldn't mind have them both being based out of Wilson Division and used in regular service (as extras) across the system. That means they wouldn't be limited to Wilson division routes so they can get around, and yes I said regular service! Again though, they'd always be used as extras so people won't have the right to start whining the bus is not accessible because it's not a scheduled bus. That's just my opinion though, it's most likely they'll never be used in regular service again. As for the maroon and cream colors, if 8058 ever gets running again do it to that one. I truthfully like the current scheme the GM's ran around in the best, and the rest around never received maroon and cream colors as mentioned earlier. Then again, I don't want to to start talking about this yet. I just want one or two GM's back on the road!

[Metro4050]

Count me in as one of those who thinks that we are coming upon a decline in the hobby. Many of the things that drew us to this hobby are dying with buses like the New Looks, RTS, Flxibles and even the first and second generation Orion Vs and D40LFs; that distinct bus "character." The slothfulness, the noise, the different "personalities" that not only spanned models and builders but bus to bus of the SAME MODEL. In a fleet of GMs, whether RTS or New Look, by the end of their lives almost no one bus would sound or operate the same. It was like an individual. It made you close to that bus. It was more personal.

Buses these days are too homogeneous. All cribbing the same ideas from each other. They sound like electric cars. They just don't have that same character. Even from the frame and chassis buses to the Old Looks, to the New Looks, to the ADBs they still kept that distinctive bus character. Modern buses just don't have that "it." It's something that railfans are bemoaning on their end as well. How do you go from SWs and GPs and SDs and Alcos and GEs and other builders to just Genset switchers and GEVOS and SD70s?

I do think the golden era is over and many fans know that as buses like the GMs and RTS buses are retired there will be NOTHING that can replace that character.

[RailBus63]

If the TTC keeps one or two, I wouldn't mind have them both being based out of Wilson Division and used in regular service (as extras) across the system. That means they wouldn't be limited to Wilson division routes so they can get around, and yes I said regular service! Again though, they'd always be used as extras so people won't have the right to start whining the bus is not accessible because it's not a scheduled bus. That's just my opinion though, it's most likely they'll never be used in regular service again. As for the maroon and cream colors, if 8058 ever gets running again do it to that one. I truthfully like the current scheme the GM's ran around in the best, and the rest around never received maroon and cream colors as mentioned earlier. Then again, I don't want to to start talking about this yet. I just want one or two GM's back on the road!

That's just not happening.

[TTCNLFBT]

If the TTC keeps one or two, I wouldn't mind have them both being based out of Wilson Division and used in regular service (as extras) across the system. That means they wouldn't be limited to Wilson division routes so they can get around, and yes I said regular service! Again though, they'd always be used as extras so people won't have the right to start whining the bus is not accessible because it's not a scheduled bus. That's just my opinion though, it's most likely they'll never be used in regular service again. As for the maroon and cream colors, if 8058 ever gets running again do it to that one. I truthfully like the current scheme the GM's ran around in the best, and the rest around never received maroon and cream colors as mentioned earlier. Then again, I don't want to to start talking about this yet. I just want one or two GM's back on the road!

Fishbowls are gone, and will not come back to service. Just like the other buses: D901's, D40-88/89/90, Classic's, Orion III's, 90-91 Orion V's, Orion VI's, etc.

Welcome to the "new" TTC! Get use to it!

[Transit2000]

Count me in as one of those who thinks that we are coming upon a decline in the hobby. Many of the things that drew us to this hobby are dying with buses like the New Looks, RTS, Flxibles and even the first and second generation Orion Vs and D40LFs; that distinct bus "character." The slothfulness, the noise, the different "personalities" that not only spanned models and builders but bus to bus of the SAME MODEL. In a fleet of GMs, whether RTS or New Look, by the end of their lives almost no one bus would sound or operate the same. It was like an individual. It made you close to that bus. It was more personal.

Buses these days are too homogeneous. All cribbing the same ideas from each other. They sound like electric cars. They just don't have that same character. Even from the frame and chassis buses to the Old Looks, to the New Looks, to the ADBs they still kept that distinctive bus character. Modern buses just don't have that "it." It's something that railfans are bemoaning on their end as well. How do you go from SWs and GPs and SDs and Alcos and GEs and other builders to just Genset switchers and GEVOS and SD70s?

I do think the golden era is over and many fans know that as buses like the GMs and RTS buses are retired there will be NOTHING that can replace that character.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. . It's just not the way it used to be anymore. I'll always be a transit fan because I love transit, although there used to be more variety and buses, even subways (like the H4's) just seemed better. I both am a transit fan and a rail fan. I only recently became a true transit fan a couple years ago which I'm still banging my head over . Although rail fanning is getting less interesting, it will be quite interesting for quite a while yet, especially with all the power CP has got going around. Same with transit fanning, not in Toronto, but other cities. Once the Orion V's, Nova RTS, and NFI D40LF's are gone, the TTC will be a lot less interesting. Again, I'll still be a transit fan, but definitely not like I am now. As a dedicated transit fan, it feels like a knife to the heart that the golden era is pretty much over. I'm sorry to whine and complain, but I can't help it . All I can do is try and be positive, and maybe another golden era will appear one day... Probably not though.

That's just not happening.

Well that's unfortunate. Because at least to me, it's a great idea that should be considered.

[D. DeLarge]

...It's something that railfans are bemoaning on their end as well. How do you go from SWs and GPs and SDs and Alcos and GEs and other builders to just Genset switchers and GEVOS and SD70s?

You're forgetting all the new fans that will enter and grow up with the newer stuff, not knowing the older stuff in regular service. Look at all the people who don't care about steam locomotives.

The hobby, whether railfanning or busfanning, isn't dying, it's just progressing with time. Change is constant. Not everyone who gets into it early will stay into it, and not everyone who doesn't get into it early won't join it later. With any hobby, there's always people who say it's dying or the best times were times past as it progresses.