New Express Metropolitain - Cote-Vertu / Vaudreuil

[SMS]

Alex contact me. I have tickets I need to burn off. Let's ride one of these if you have some time. You have my number

[mtltransitguy]

With this service being handed over to it's respective CIT in a few days, what do you see happening with it in 2009?

I think it should become the backbone of a substantial service upgrade.

This route should be the main feeder route, and should be time-transfer based with the local Presqu network, providing some sort of decent service levels.

Opinions?

[SMS]

My only opinion is that I hope they won't reject the AMT style tickets. I have a few and I never got a chance to try the bus out yet. It would be unfair to other users who regularly pay like this and get left in the dust. I also hope that the CIT will still operate the route with Orleans Express Coaches...

[kellergraham]

With this service being handed over to it's respective CIT in a few days, what do you see happening with it in 2009?

- Hopefully, better service including off peak and weekend service.

- A select few departures (mainly off peak) stopping at Fairview.

- Eventual extension to St-Lazare and then Valleyfield

- Eventual merger of CITSO and CITPI ( ) )

I think it should become the backbone of a substantial service upgrade.

This route should be the main feeder route, and should be time-transfer based with the local Presqu network, providing some sort of decent service levels.

Opinions?

Agreed.

[mtltransitguy]

- Hopefully, better service including off peak and weekend service.

- A select few departures (mainly off peak) stopping at Fairview.

- Eventual extension to St-Lazare and then Valleyfield

- Eventual merger of CITSO and CITPI ( ) )

Agreed.

Hopefully, although it is currently underused during peak-hours. WE NEED MORE ADVERTISING! Most people don't even know it exists, some printed schedules would help!

That would be great, I always hate routes (read 470) that force you to travel against your direction of travel just to board them!

Yes, please extend this to Vealleyfield! It takes way too long on CITSO 1, and that new Valleyfield Trianbus service is a joke! It's like 8$ for a single ride! (This is due to some stupid zoning policy...would only make sense if they gave you a free transfer to the 1).

That could be interesting, but I'm not so sure it could work.

Mainly because of how things are done at Auger.

Auger is your typical 'bus lord' type of operation, where things are done just to be done, and there isn't much emphasis on quality of service.

It's like "okay, we need to do this, let's do it".

It's really CITSO that pushes for stuff to happen, see how long it took them to actually indicate CITSO on the buses!

What means is there seems to be a general laissez-faire, relaxed attitude at auger.

Things are just done a certain, way, like the style of drivers, anyone who rides CITSO knows what I'm talking about.

I don't see Auger's style of service going over too well with Prequ'ile.

[kellergraham]

Hopefully, although it is currently underused during peak-hours. WE NEED MORE ADVERTISING! Most people don't even know it exists, some printed schedules would help!

That would be great, I always hate routes (read 470) that force you to travel against your direction of travel just to board them!

The 40 isn't under used during peak hours. I've been on some departures that are almost full. Printed Schedules do exist, but I agree more advertising needs to be done. Hopefully CITPI will do a good job at this.

I don't get it. What's wroung with the 470?

Yes, please extend this to Vealleyfield! It takes way too long on CITSO 1, and that new Valleyfield Trianbus service is a joke! It's like 8$ for a single ride! (This is due to some stupid zoning policy...would only make sense if they gave you a free transfer to the 1).

It's actually $6.15 but still very expensive.

That could be interesting, but I'm not so sure it could work.

Mainly because of how things are done at Auger.

Auger is your typical 'bus lord' type of operation, where things are done just to be done, and there isn't much emphasis on quality of service.

It's like "okay, we need to do this, let's do it".

It's really CITSO that pushes for stuff to happen, see how long it took them to actually indicate CITSO on the buses!

What means is there seems to be a general laissez-faire, relaxed attitude at auger.

Things are just done a certain, way, like the style of drivers, anyone who rides CITSO knows what I'm talking about.

I don't see Auger's style of service going over too well with Prequ'ile.

If they can do in with SURF they can do it here. The problem now is that CITSO isn't managed the same way other CITs are. Auger has TOO MUCH of a say in the operation of CITSO. When CIT Roussillon switched from La Quebecoise to Transdev, one point they made to Transdev what that the buses would be run according to Roussillon's way.

Happy New Year

[SMS]

Last chance to download AMT Express schedules from 2008 before they get updated:

http://www.tec.amt.qc.ca/itec/pa1/circuits/EXPRESS_lcirc.htm

I'm not impressed that the 100 and 40 don't have maps...

[mtltransitguy]

The 40 isn't under used during peak hours. I've been on some departures that are almost full. Printed Schedules do exist, but I agree more advertising needs to be done. Hopefully CITPI will do a good job at this.

I don't get it. What's wroung with the 470?

And I have witnessed some departures that are almost empty, so it varies obviously then.

If you have to ask to get a schedule it is NOT acceptable, the only reason I have one was because I explained what I wanted to the people working at LLA.

I should not have had to ASK for one, I should not have had to go down to LLA for one, and I should not have had to describe what I was asking for about 3 times.

The 470 has no stops between Cote-Vertu and Fairview is what's wrong with it!

People who would like to go somewhere between A-40 and Cote-Vertu have to ride all the way to the metro, and then ride back.

There is no other alternative, and this is quite annoying. A major flaw in the western STM network is that the entire system is based out of the orange line, and green line.

To travel west you have to go east...

I do not want stops all along Cote-Vertu for the 470, but at the very least, make one stop like the 40 does.

That way people won't have to spend an extra 30 min travelling. About 10 min from A-40 to CV Metro, 10 min wait (or more!), and then a 10 min ride back to the destination they just past 20 min ago.

And no one go an pull the "470 is an express route so it makes no stops on that section" BS. The 410 and the 430 are express along Notre-Dame and make a good number of stops to provide access to the route for those travelling from the east to the far-east.

Making one stop, even embarquement/debarquement seulment, for the respective directions would greatly improve this route.

It's actually $6.15 but still very expensive.

That's my point.

If they can do in with SURF they can do it here. The problem now is that CITSO isn't managed the same way other CITs are. Auger has TOO MUCH of a say in the operation of CITSO. When CIT Roussillon switched from La Quebecoise to Transdev, one point they made to Transdev what that the buses would be run according to Roussillon's way.

And that's my point once again, CITSO is not CITSO, it's run by Auger, which is exactly what I was talking about.

It couldn't work because it's not the same case.

Happy New Year

Yes here's to better transit in 2009.

[SMS]

The 470 has no stops between Cote-Vertu and Fairview is what's wrong with it!

People who would like to go somewhere between A-40 and Cote-Vertu have to ride all the way to the metro, and then ride back.

There is no other alternative, and this is quite annoying. A major flaw in the western STM network is that the entire system is based out of the orange line, and green line.

To travel west you have to go east...

I do not want stops all along Cote-Vertu for the 470, but at the very least, make one stop like the 40 does.

That way people won't have to spend an extra 30 min travelling. About 10 min from A-40 to CV Metro, 10 min wait (or more!), and then a 10 min ride back to the destination they just past 20 min ago.

And no one go an pull the "470 is an express route so it makes no stops on that section" BS. The 410 and the 430 are express along Notre-Dame and make a good number of stops to provide access to the route for those travelling from the east to the far-east.

Making one stop, even embarquement/debarquement seulment, for the respective directions would greatly improve this route.

mtltransitguy I respectfully disagree and let me tell you where our points of view differ. There are so many people travelling between FVW and CV that it's ridiculous when the STM didn't think of this idea twenty years ago! That's the cruel and ironic joke that Jimmy and I talk about, that the STM expressed surprise that the 470 was doing so well and thus decided to extend its hours to daytime, early evening, and now weekend. HELLO! Where the hell have they been? They never put out a survey for the unhappy riders on the 215 and 216. Now trust me I am not taking a holier than thou approach (that is reserved for certain special members on the CPTDB) when I say that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the 215 and 216. I've been a pretty loyal customer for the better part of 8 years. And I remember the crushloads on the way to the metro and on the way back home. Trust me when I say standing 27 mins from my 215 stop to the metro is NOT fun. And trust me I really hated after a long tiresome day having to stand on the 216 (or 214) back home and I could feel the irritation of the passengers on the pre-470 216 because I wanted to get off at my stop, and delayed their trip to Fairview!

My point: the 470 is for a specific clientele. Going elsewhere? Take the local 215 or 216. Sorry but that's the way I like it. I now find my 215 and 216 rides enjoyable after all these years. Now I can get a seat the majority of the time instead of the minority. I like it the way they made it. I am disappointed that I can't take advantage of the 470 since it overshoots me, but all those people have gotten off my bus and that suits me fine. You must be irritated that the 470 does not benefit you. Well the closest point for you is the 216 when it runs and you can get it at Cavendish and Cote-Vertu. When that's not in operation, I guess you have to 177 it to the 215.

Have you ever rode the 410 or 430? I'm not saying this in an accusatory tone. Well I have (I've rode all daytime routes now that I've completed the 480). Yes the PAT expresses are nonstop where it parallels the metro. From Honoré-Beaugrand to points east the bus is limited stop from Tetraultville to the end of the line while the locals provide full service. That's the whole point. It doesn't become express at the eastern border of Montreal-Est. It serves this and Tetraultville. It's not a valid comparison according to me. Although if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected.

I think your argument makes complete sense though when it comes to getting to LaSalle from the 211 where people have to take the Green line from Angrignon. If the TTC ran the line, I'm sure a branch line would have been created short turning at Angrignon a minority of the time so that people needn't take the Green line back. Of course, the disgusting alternative of the 195 exists... not really recommended...

If the O-D survey proves otherwise (West Islanders needing to get to the 174, for example), I would be amenable to the 470 making a stop at Beaulac BUT EB must be descente seulement and WB must be embarquement seulement. No local travel for Ville-St-Laurenters. They can damn well take the 121, 174, 177, 213, or 225. The 470 is a West Island bus. Period! This is the only compromise I'd make but if the 216 were to run all day... forget it!

[kellergraham]

mtltransitguy I respectfully disagree and let me tell you where our points of view differ. There are so many people travelling between FVW and CV that it's ridiculous when the STM didn't think of this idea twenty years ago! That's the cruel and ironic joke that Jimmy and I talk about, that the STM expressed surprise that the 470 was doing so well and thus decided to extend its hours to daytime, early evening, and now weekend. HELLO! Where the hell have they been? They never put out a survey for the unhappy riders on the 215 and 216. Now trust me I am not taking a holier than thou approach (that is reserved for certain special members on the CPTDB) when I say that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the 215 and 216. I've been a pretty loyal customer for the better part of 8 years. And I remember the crushloads on the way to the metro and on the way back home. Trust me when I say standing 27 mins from my 215 stop to the metro is NOT fun. And trust me I really hated after a long tiresome day having to stand on the 216 (or 214) back home and I could feel the irritation of the passengers on the pre-470 216 because I wanted to get off at my stop, and delayed their trip to Fairview!

My point: the 470 is for a specific clientele. Going elsewhere? Take the local 215 or 216. Sorry but that's the way I like it. I now find my 215 and 216 rides enjoyable after all these years. Now I can get a seat the majority of the time instead of the minority. I like it the way they made it. I am disappointed that I can't take advantage of the 470 since it overshoots me, but all those people have gotten off my bus and that suits me fine. You must be irritated that the 470 does not benefit you. Well the closest point for you is the 216 when it runs and you can get it at Cavendish and Cote-Vertu. When that's not in operation, I guess you have to 177 it to the 215.

Have you ever rode the 410 or 430? I'm not saying this in an accusatory tone. Well I have (I've rode all daytime routes now that I've completed the 480). Yes the PAT expresses are nonstop where it parallels the metro. From Honoré-Beaugrand to points east the bus is limited stop from Tetraultville to the end of the line while the locals provide full service. That's the whole point. It doesn't become express at the eastern border of Montreal-Est. It serves this and Tetraultville. It's not a valid comparison according to me. Although if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected.

I think your argument makes complete sense though when it comes to getting to LaSalle from the 211 where people have to take the Green line from Angrignon. If the TTC ran the line, I'm sure a branch line would have been created short turning at Angrignon a minority of the time so that people needn't take the Green line back. Of course, the disgusting alternative of the 195 exists... not really recommended...

If the O-D survey proves otherwise (West Islanders needing to get to the 174, for example), I would be amenable to the 470 making a stop at Beaulac BUT EB must be descente seulement and WB must be embarquement seulement. No local travel for Ville-St-Laurenters. They can damn well take the 121, 174, 177, 213, or 225. The 470 is a West Island bus. Period! This is the only compromise I'd make but if the 216 were to run all day... forget it!

My point exactly. Local services exists. Take them. The 215 has been a MUCH better bus since the introduction and improvements on the 470. I remember taking a 215 on a Saturday (pre-470) and it was SRO to the doors. These days, it's a much more enjoyable ride with a few standees and just about everyone has a seat from Cote-Vertu, if not from about Toupin.

And that's my point once again, CITSO is not CITSO, it's run by Auger, which is exactly what I was talking about.

It couldn't work because it's not the same case.

That's what has to change. All other CITs (to my knowledge) are run independently from their transporters. (Gestrans runs 3 CITs (Roussillon, Richelain and CRC)).

When the CIT says "jump" the transporter should say "how high?"

Alex

[kellergraham]

Just got an email back from CIT La Presqu'Ile regarding a comment I left for them a few days ago...

They mentioned to me that AMT's tickets are usable on the Express Vaudreuil 40 until the end of January 2009 :angry:

They also mentioned that for the time being there wouldn't be any service increases on the line.

Alex

[SMS]

This isn't fair. The service didn't begin in January 2008 and not accepting the 2008 AMT tickets to me is a vile cash grab! Come on! I guess they're expecting all riders to be TRAM 5 holders.

[mtltransitguy]

mtltransitguy I respectfully disagree and let me tell you where our points of view differ. There are so many people travelling between FVW and CV that it's ridiculous when the STM didn't think of this idea twenty years ago! That's the cruel and ironic joke that Jimmy and I talk about, that the STM expressed surprise that the 470 was doing so well and thus decided to extend its hours to daytime, early evening, and now weekend. HELLO! Where the hell have they been? They never put out a survey for the unhappy riders on the 215 and 216. Now trust me I am not taking a holier than thou approach (that is reserved for certain special members on the CPTDB) when I say that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the 215 and 216. I've been a pretty loyal customer for the better part of 8 years. And I remember the crushloads on the way to the metro and on the way back home. Trust me when I say standing 27 mins from my 215 stop to the metro is NOT fun. And trust me I really hated after a long tiresome day having to stand on the 216 (or 214) back home and I could feel the irritation of the passengers on the pre-470 216 because I wanted to get off at my stop, and delayed their trip to Fairview!

My point: the 470 is for a specific clientele. Going elsewhere? Take the local 215 or 216. Sorry but that's the way I like it. I now find my 215 and 216 rides enjoyable after all these years. Now I can get a seat the majority of the time instead of the minority. I like it the way they made it. I am disappointed that I can't take advantage of the 470 since it overshoots me, but all those people have gotten off my bus and that suits me fine. You must be irritated that the 470 does not benefit you. Well the closest point for you is the 216 when it runs and you can get it at Cavendish and Cote-Vertu. When that's not in operation, I guess you have to 177 it to the 215.

Have you ever rode the 410 or 430? I'm not saying this in an accusatory tone. Well I have (I've rode all daytime routes now that I've completed the 480). Yes the PAT expresses are nonstop where it parallels the metro. From Honoré-Beaugrand to points east the bus is limited stop from Tetraultville to the end of the line while the locals provide full service. That's the whole point. It doesn't become express at the eastern border of Montreal-Est. It serves this and Tetraultville. It's not a valid comparison according to me. Although if I am wrong, I would like to be corrected.

I think your argument makes complete sense though when it comes to getting to LaSalle from the 211 where people have to take the Green line from Angrignon. If the TTC ran the line, I'm sure a branch line would have been created short turning at Angrignon a minority of the time so that people needn't take the Green line back. Of course, the disgusting alternative of the 195 exists... not really recommended...

If the O-D survey proves otherwise (West Islanders needing to get to the 174, for example), I would be amenable to the 470 making a stop at Beaulac BUT EB must be descente seulement and WB must be embarquement seulement. No local travel for Ville-St-Laurenters. They can damn well take the 121, 174, 177, 213, or 225. The 470 is a West Island bus. Period! This is the only compromise I'd make but if the 216 were to run all day... forget it!

Yes I agree with the 470, of course it was needed, I never said otherwise. The STM was surprised and touted themselve numerous time for doing such a great job with this line. This makes me laugh everytime, why would they think that anyone in their right mind would want to spend twice as much time getting to the same destination. We need more express routes like this, especially on lines where there is a sufficient number of passengers heading to the same destination. One could argue that such service is not necessarily viable, and only works so well for the 470 since it connects two important transit hubs, and is the main link to and from the West-Island. I also used to ride the 215 back in the pre-470 days. IT WAS HELL let me tell you, always SRO and an extremely long ride. I dreamed of the day when the STM would wake up and make the 470 an all day route. Who knows why they didn't do this sooner, perhaps they believed that there wasn't the ridership, or that it wasn't worth it...thankfully that backwards mentality has changed. The STM needs to learn from this experience, and know that if they offer the service, it will be used, as long as they are offering service that riders actually want.

Not what I am talking about. Why would I be irritated that the 470 'does not benifit me'? I am not irritated. This is by far a greed-driven plaint. Once again, why should riders between Cote-Vertu Metro and the A-40 have to take these local routes? Why should they have to head all the way EAST to benifit from a WESTbound express bus? The 470 in the west-island is well designed, it should not use the service road just to please those who live nearby, like you said that is what the 216 is for. Along Cote-Vertu however this is not the case, it has no alternate, 'express lane' route it can take. It often stops at red lights, and wait anyways. The whole point to having it stop along CV is NOT to provide some sort of permium service for local trips between CV and Fairview, but to save people from wasting time getting to Cote-Vertu and BACKTRACKING! Your telling me to wait possibly 30 min for a 177 somewhere at one of the 'all route' stops along Cote-Vertu, then waiting another 15 minutes for a 215 that will take at least 30 min to get to Fairview!? Fat chance. Like I said the Vaudreuil 40 makes one stop at least for exactly the same reasons I am advocating the 470 to make a similar stop somewhere between the Metro and the Autoroute. You could say that this is due to the fact that it is on separate fare, but like you said in the post right above, they expect people to have TRAM 5's. The main reason for the 40 stop at Beaulac is for passengers who are closer to there than the metro, and who should not have to waste time GOING EAST TO GO WEST.

Yes I have ridden the 410/430, one time the entire length from LLA, the other on a LOCAL trip. Yes I rode it on a local trip. How? Simple, along Notre-Dame, for one stop. Now this is exactly what I do not want the 470 to become, it should not be treated as an express 121, and should not be used as an alternative to this route. Also, the 410/430 are only express from De Champlain at the foot of the JCB to just after the RR overpass shortly down the road. That's right, the so called "PAT express routes" are almost always local. It's a perfect comparison, since this is how the 470 should be set up. Express on A-40, and limited stop along CV, with proper boarding/unboarding only stops WB/EB respectively.

The STM needs to learn from the 470 experience. More express routes need to be created, along corridors such as Henri-Bourassa for example. The 49 and 48 are not good enough, and are often SRO as it is, and should be left for unfortunate RDP bound passengers. Other routes such as the 45, 51, 67 and 121 also need to get major overhauls. There are enough riders going from a given cluster of stops to another given cluster of stops at any given time, to provide some sort of skip-stop service.

I agree with the 211/221, it needs to be branched, enough of linear, single terminus lines!

How many times have I proposed this as a solution...many! That is exactly what I have been advocating for years.

My point exactly. Local services exists. Take them. The 215 has been a MUCH better bus since the introduction and improvements on the 470. I remember taking a 215 on a Saturday (pre-470) and it was SRO to the doors. These days, it's a much more enjoyable ride with a few standees and just about everyone has a seat from Cote-Vertu, if not from about Toupin.

That's what has to change. All other CITs (to my knowledge) are run independently from their transporters. (Gestrans runs 3 CITs (Roussillon, Richelain and CRC)).

When the CIT says "jump" the transporter should say "how high?"

Alex

Not so fast. Local service may exist, but it's not a valid argument to say 'take them'. Like I have mentioned countless times, the goal is not to provide service to disgruntled 121 riders, but to provide service to residents of the West-Island who are taking care of business, shopping or visiting along Cote-Vertu and to the residents of Saint-Laurent who wish to do the same in the West-Island.

The point is, that no other decent alternative exists.

Yes I agree, things need to change at CITSO, but they have been this way for so long. Things are just done differently out there.

[kellergraham]

Not what I am talking about. Why would I be irritated that the 470 'does not benifit me'? I am not irritated. This is by far a greed-driven plaint. Once again, why should riders between Cote-Vertu Metro and the A-40 have to take these local routes? Why should they have to head all the way EAST to benifit from a WESTbound express bus? The 470 in the west-island is well designed, it should not use the service road just to please those who live nearby, like you said that is what the 216 is for. Along Cote-Vertu however this is not the case, it has no alternate, 'express lane' route it can take. It often stops at red lights, and wait anyways. The whole point to having it stop along CV is NOT to provide some sort of permium service for local trips between CV and Fairview, but to save people from wasting time getting to Cote-Vertu and BACKTRACKING! Your telling me to wait possibly 30 min for a 177 somewhere at one of the 'all route' stops along Cote-Vertu, then waiting another 15 minutes for a 215 that will take at least 30 min to get to Fairview!? Fat chance. Like I said the Vaudreuil 40 makes one stop at least for exactly the same reasons I am advocating the 470 to make a similar stop somewhere between the Metro and the Autoroute. You could say that this is due to the fact that it is on separate fare, but like you said in the post right above, they expect people to have TRAM 5's. The main reason for the 40 stop at Beaulac is for passengers who are closer to there than the metro, and who should not have to waste time GOING EAST TO GO WEST.

OK, According to Google Transit the last westbound AM peak bus from Place Vertu to Fairview is a 225 at 10:05 and takes about 35 minutes.

The following option is to take a 177 to the industrial park and then a 215 to Fairview. No back tracking. Total time 46 minutes.

The third option is backtracking. Take the 177 (or 121) to the Metro and then take the 470. Total time 48 minutes.

The argument for wasting 30 minutes backtracking is invalid. Total wasted time: 2 minutes (or 13 if you count the possibility of a 225 or 216 all day

That being said, I do think that off peak and on weekends only a select amount of buses (no more than every 30 minutes) should make a LIMITED stop at Place Vertu. No local service between P. Vertu and C. Vertu! NO 470 stop during rush hour (take the 216 or 225). No service at that stop every 15 minutes like the current midday schedule.

The STM needs to learn from the 470 experience. More express routes need to be created, along corridors such as Henri-Bourassa for example. The 49 and 48 are not good enough, and are often SRO as it is, and should be left for unfortunate RDP bound passengers. Other routes such as the 45, 51, 67 and 121 also need to get major overhauls. There are enough riders going from a given cluster of stops to another given cluster of stops at any given time, to provide some sort of skip-stop service.

I agree. After seeing the example of TTC route 196 which is express between Downsview and Sheppard-Yonge (with only one stop at Bathurst). I immediately envisioned the possibility of an express route on the 121 which would have stops limited to Gare Montpellier and Acadie between the metro stations.

I agree with the 211/221, it needs to be branched, enough of linear, single terminus lines!

That's quite interesting. The 221 could also run all day

Alex

[mtltransitguy]

OK, According to Google Transit the last westbound AM peak bus from Place Vertu to Fairview is a 225 at 10:05 and takes about 35 minutes.

The following option is to take a 177 to the industrial park and then a 215 to Fairview. No back tracking. Total time 46 minutes.

The third option is backtracking. Take the 177 (or 121) to the Metro and then take the 470. Total time 48 minutes.

The argument for wasting 30 minutes backtracking is invalid. Total wasted time: 2 minutes (or 13 if you count the possibility of a 225 or 216 all day

That being said, I do think that off peak and on weekends only a select amount of buses (no more than every 30 minutes) should make a LIMITED stop at Place Vertu. No local service between P. Vertu and C. Vertu! NO 470 stop during rush hour (take the 216 or 225). No service at that stop every 15 minutes like the current midday schedule.

I agree. After seeing the example of TTC route 196 which is express between Downsview and Sheppard-Yonge (with only one stop at Bathurst). I immediately envisioned the possibility of an express route on the 121 which would have stops limited to Gare Montpellier and Acadie between the metro stations.

That's quite interesting. The 221 could also run all day

Alex

It is very valid, you forgot to add in the possible 30 minute wait for the 177! I'll be fair and say 15 AVG, and since the 470 should be every 15 min mid-day we will put that at a 7½ minutes. If the 470 stop along CV you could simply wait 7½ minutes and the hop on. Rather than waiting 15 minutes, and then say 10 mintues for a 215 since the 177 and 215 don't pass at the same time obviously, you have now waited an estimated average of 25 mintues to catch two buses. By this time you could already be at Fairview if you had caught a 470 a few minutes after you arrived at the stop. If the 225 ran all day, it might be a good alternative, but its still very slow, especially when compared to the 470! Even if the 216 ran all day it wouldn't be as good, but with a few modifications to the routing it could work.

That's what I have been suggesting ever since I brougt this up in April 2007!

All I want is at least one stop between CV and PV so that it will be easier for riders to travel between Saint-Laurent and the West-Island, which would have spin-off benifits.

Why not every 15 miniutes? Why every 30 min? What's the problem with having all 470's stop to let people on, I don't see that as a problem or service slow down at all. And this will help out the 121 a bit too, since people won't have to uselessly backtrack!

A TTC 196 style, 121 would be an excellent idea. When I rode the 196, although it wasn't by any means speedy since it took local streets, and rightfully so, it helped that we only had one stop between Downsview and Sheppard.

For the 121, I think a few more stops would be in order, but PV-CV-MNP-ACD-SL-BR/LJ-PPN-SM would be decent IMO.

It's a joke that the 221 one dosen't run all day, it reminds me of the 215/470 ordeal.

The 221 is the 211's answer to better service just like the 470 was the 215's answer to better service.

As I have advocated in the past, as has SMS, every second 211 departure becoming a 221 would not be such a bad idea.

It might even be a good idea to create a new 4XX series route. 450 Express Dorval?

Lionel-Groulx, or even Dorchester, to Dorval, and perhaps even on to Fairview.

That would become one popular route! Direct bus service from Fairview to Downtown Montreal!

We can make it happen!

And speaking of the 211/221, the stops at L-G need to be brought up to standard.

It's a real joke, especially since the service intervals are less than adequate and people must stand and wait in the cold, then ride an SRO bus.

I'm not one for turning greenspace into blackspace, but I think L-G deserves a proper loop.

[JeremyA]

It's a joke that the 221 one dosen't run all day, it reminds me of the 215/470 ordeal.

The 221 is the 211's answer to better service just like the 470 was the 215's answer to better service.

As I have advocated in the past, as has SMS, every second 211 departure becoming a 221 would not be such a bad idea.

It might even be a good idea to create a new 4XX series route. 450 Express Dorval?

Lionel-Groulx, or even Dorchester, to Dorval, and perhaps even on to Fairview.

That would become one popular route! Direct bus service from Fairview to Downtown Montreal!

We can make it happen!

It's always seemed to me that the 211 is a bus that can't decide what it's main purpose is; at Lionel-Groulx, it's advertised as the airport bus, it's express to Dorval terminus, then it dwindles through the local streets of Dorval, before getting back on the highway for a little while, only to get off a short while later after Pointe-Claire, and move down to the Lakeshore for the rest of the trip to MacDonald Terminus. IMO, there are already enough busses serving that portion of the Lakeshore, so the 211/221 should stay on the A20 right till the end. Also, I think we should adopt a system like the TTC has, in the sense that we'd have a 211a, 211b, etc. One out of every 5 departures should be a 211b, which would go directly from the metro to the airport, alleviating the need to wait around in Dorval for the 204. For a city of this size not to have a direct link between downtown and the airport, is simply rediculous.

After the 211a leaves the Dorval terminus, or the 211b leaves the airport, they should both get back on the highway. It should then stay on the highways. Take the Pointe-Claire train station, and Pine Beach westbound stop as examples, and make every stop along the route like that, and set the terminus at St-Anne-De-Belleview train station instead of stopping at MacDonald, for better connections with off-island busses. Additionally, I suppose it would be too much to ask for a reserved bus lane on A20...

I completely agree about a 450 Express Dorval!

And speaking of the 211/221, the stops at L-G need to be brought up to standard.

It's a real joke, especially since the service intervals are less than adequate and people must stand and wait in the cold, then ride an SRO bus.

I'm not one for turning greenspace into blackspace, but I think L-G deserves a proper loop.

What stop? For months now there's only been a temporary sign for the 211, and now last time I was there, even that's gone, leaving only a "No Parking" sign, that people seem to treat as a bus stop. What's up with all those paths and benches surrounding the entrance to the metro? Pave it over, and make a proper bus terminal! As mtltransitguy said, the current situation forces thousands of people to wait out in the cold for busses, plus, it ties up traffic right at the intersection of two relatively busy streets!

[kellergraham]

New developments in the Express Vaudreuil 40 Story:

At least one of the Orleans Express Buses (5310) has been "sold" or at least repainted in a CIT La Presqu'Ile livery. The number 5310 is removed and replaced by a small red "76" on the front. The livery consists of a "CIT La Presqu'Ile" green logo and their slogan "Roulez Vert... Pensez CIT"

I'm not sure if these buses are owned by Transbus or another company.

[webfil]

If I recall correctly, I saw this one (before its makeover) and another Prévost Orléans-look-alike numbered in the 50's serving route 40 on chemin de la Côte-Vertu.

I'll try to take pictures or notes as I work often in Arrondissement Saint-Laurent if it's possible to have an operator name or permit number.

New developments in the Express Vaudreuil 40 Story:

At least one of the Orleans Express Buses (5310) has been "sold" or at least repainted in a CIT La Presqu'Ile livery. The number 5310 is removed and replaced by a small red "76" on the front. The livery consists of a "CIT La Presqu'Ile" green logo and their slogan "Roulez Vert... Pensez CIT"

I'm not sure if these buses are owned by Transbus or another company.

[kellergraham]

Confirmed with a driver today.

- Transbus now owns the buses. (At least three are required for service).

- Buses are stored at "Roger Leger Transport" near the Vaudreuil train station along with CITPI's Cutaways

- OE 5307 (2003 Prevost LeMirage XL II) is now #129

- OE 5309 (2003 Prevost LeMirage XL II) is now #148

- OE 5310 (2003 Prevost LeMirage XL II) is now #76

[webfil]

Just saw N° 129 going West on Côte-Vertu @ Place Vertu at 4PM. Another one was heading East on the reserved lane, but i couldn't catch the number.

Both had Scrabble wraps and CIT PI logos.

Confirmed with a driver today.

- Transbus now owns the buses. (At least three are required for service).

- Buses are stored at "Roger Leger Transport" near the Vaudreuil train station along with CITPI's Cutaways

- OE 5309 (2003 Prevost LeMirage XL II) is now #148

- OE 5310 (2003 Prevost LeMirage XL II) is now #76

[kellergraham]

Just saw N° 129 going West on Côte-Vertu @ Place Vertu at 4PM. Another one was heading East on the reserved lane, but i couldn't catch the number.

Both had Scrabble wraps and CIT PI logos.

That's ex OE 5307. Thanks for the sighting.