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TTC Destination Sign Exposure Inconsistencies


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10 hours ago, Turtle said:

Yes, because everybody is getting stressed about how diversions and destinations aren't completely clear to most people, and they are trying to select the thing that is the most obvious to them, hopefully minimizing the confusion and questions from the general public who is just trying to get to work/school/run errands.

I get that but using a 504 King sign for a 72 Pape bus (same operator doing it everyday) just makes it even more confusing

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9 hours ago, CJ. said:

I get that but using a 504 King sign for a 72 Pape bus (same operator doing it everyday) just makes it even more confusing

You know what, 99% of the people employed try (for the most part most days) to be helpful and be a positive contributing member of society, there is that 1% who are dicks.

 

Just like 45% of the people out there pay their proper fare to use the service, and 99% of the people who don't pay complain about how shitty it is.

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1 hour ago, Turtle said:

You know what, 99% of the people employed try (for the most part most days) to be helpful and be a positive contributing member of society, there is that 1% who are dicks.

 

Just like 45% of the people out there pay their proper fare to use the service, and 99% of the people who don't pay complain about how shitty it is.

Cause our society is way too liberal and gives way too much protection to criminals and supports toxic bad behaviour. Some people just deserves to be dragged off the bus and beat on the street on spot. Instead they have to go to court and hope they show up after bail after committing multiple offenses. Anything less minor would be ignored. They will never get the message of not doing it again.

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On 7/5/2023 at 7:35 PM, blue.bird.fan said:

It was very simple back in the CLRV era. They could easily do 506 CARLTON, TO KINGSTON RD and QUEEN.

I'm not sure it actually was that simple. Back in the "good old days", the intellectuals running the TTC decided that unlike every other city of the world, any routes which are not running the full route, but are connected by shuttle bus, should continue to show the original destination. So you would get gems like the 509 and 511 continuing to show Exhibition in the spring and summer of 2016 despite them not running to Exhibition loop, but only to Fleet loop, being connected to Exhibition by a shuttle bus. I'm sure this never caused any confusion with passengers getting off in strange places, since communication and signage at the TTC has always been exemplary.

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40 minutes ago, T3G said:

I'm not sure it actually was that simple. Back in the "good old days", the intellectuals running the TTC decided that unlike every other city of the world, any routes which are not running the full route, but are connected by shuttle bus, should continue to show the original destination. So you would get gems like the 509 and 511 continuing to show Exhibition in the spring and summer of 2016 despite them not running to Exhibition loop, but only to Fleet loop, being connected to Exhibition by a shuttle bus. I'm sure this never caused any confusion with passengers getting off in strange places, since communication and signage at the TTC has always been exemplary.

Okay, so the driver puts up 511 to Bastion (or 509) can't remember which route has that destination available, and people get confused even though that is the correct destination to tell people the streetcar is only going as far as fleet loop. Put up anything except the normal end of the line, and people get confused. It's easier to put up the normal end destination, then announce the short turn at the last stop.

 

Or on a route diversion, for example the 510 going west on College, south on Bathurst, east on King back to southbound Spadina, people want off at College/Spadina southbound or King/Spadina, but the driver can't because those are not proper stops. The stop for College St. is nearside on College or farside on Spadina. The stop for King is nearside Spadina or farside King. Both are missed during the turn, and no matter how much the driver announces at Willcocks/Spadina or King/Portland people still get confused or mad that they get dropped off at the next stop.

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Great, and what about people who struggle with English who will not understand the TTC quality announcements about the "short turn", and get off at the wrong stop and have no idea where to go now? This way of doing things is not ideal.

There are of course other possible solutions. Like this one, based off what is commonly used in Brno, in the Czech Republic. But that would require Toronto to look at a map and realize there's a whole world east of the Rouge River they can learn from.

As far as I can tell the TTC has abandoned this practice of late - or at least, I haven't seen it anywhere, thankfully - but GO is following in their footsteps. Last summer I got on a 21 to Union station that diverted to Port Credit. No announcements, no information, no nothing, and I was stuck next to a sleeping passenger so I couldn't get up and ask the driver where we were actually going. If this is what passes for clear, accurate communication, then we are all in deep trouble.

IMG_3539.jpeg

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2 hours ago, T3G said:

Great, and what about people who struggle with English who will not understand the TTC quality announcements about the "short turn", and get off at the wrong stop and have no idea where to go now? This way of doing things is not ideal.

No amount of announcements or text messages on the led board will help them. If you want to see that in person, just stand at the eastbound stop on Queens Quay and Lower Spadina. The vehicles are clearly signed up properly for 510B to Queens Quay, even though it doesn't actually show the B on the sign, it shows that it only goes to Queens Quay.

 

The driver announces that Queens Quay West is the last stop, if you need to go further switch to a 510A or 509 going to union at the stop... Driver announces at the stop that the streetcar is "out of service, take another" even though technically it is still in service but that is the clearest way of telling people who need to go further that they need to wait for a streetcar that goes further.

 

But, there are a ton of people that sit and stare, that look at all the others getting off and just sit. The streetcar takes them into Spadina loop, and they still sit and stare, and eventually get off at Bremner after wasting 15 minutes of their lives sitting and staring blankly, no matter how much the driver waves their arms to get off, no matter which way the driver makes the announcements. Even when they driver gets up and walks up to the person and asks them "where are you trying to get to?" they still sit and stare blankly, and get offended when the driver loses their patience.

 

Meanwhile, that 510B is sitting at the stop delaying the 509 or 510A behind it, while the driver tries to communicate to the blank stare people that they need to take the streetcar behind to get to where they want to go.

 

Yes, it's a stupid system, the p/a on those streetcars is garbage, but people need to pay attention instead of being absorbed in their noise cancelling ear buds.

 

Even better are those people on a King car that gets short turned into Charlotte loop, they wait for the next streetcar, which turns out to be a northbound 510, and ask the driver if they go to Bathurst. Um, did you not notice that the 504 you were on just made a right turn onto Spadina?

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Well clearly most of the new signs were either completely wrong or useless, especially the streetcar diversion signs, or temporaily re-routing sign.

- 47/512 was a confusing sign. Not sure how but it definetly should be different

- 306 Carlton bus showed up as "306C To Dundas West Stn Via Castle Frank And College Station" then showed up as 306 VIA MAIN STREET STATION before they fixed it recently

- The 506C sign says "VIA GREENWOOD STN AND COXWELL STN" but there's no actual annoucement for coxwell station, it says the next stop is monarch park avenue (wrong spot too) then continues on 

- One of the 31 Greenwood signs said "CONNECTION TO>CARLTON STREETCAR" which is useless and more confusing information, many routes pass through the 506 and other streetcars but don't use this sign. 

-304 King blue night announces itself as short turn to spadina station and the sign displays 304 short turn, when it continues to pape station...

-503 KINGSTON RD buses continue to use a mix of 503 signs, 502,504,501 signs and about a month or 2 back, even used a 144 sign. That's crazy

-One of the 72 Pape operators as I mentioned likes to change his sign to 504C KING TO PARLIMENT, which is too far out of the lines

I could say a lot more of this. And also the streetcar signs aren't better either, the 506 Streetcars will sometimes have the regular sign or 506 SHORT TURN to random spots, and 505 when it used to run to bingham would sometimes say short turn to Victoria (Victoria street is much further than bingham loop last time I checked LOL)

Oh and also, the interlined routes especially the temporarily interlined ones are known to display opposite route signs when late in schedule. Such as if a 113 bus was heading towards Main, somewhere near Kennedy Road and was behind schedule, it'll automatically sign itself up as a 135 Gerrard bus regardless of where it is at and force the operator to stick with that, and manual attempts of changing the sign will result in it changing it back to 135, and no stop announcements would be said

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You see people still sitting on subway trains while they tell everyone to get off. That’s their fault for sleeping/not paying attention. The best signs can’t even help with people like this.

It’s like the saying the customer is always right. Nope, some do overstretch their rights.

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13 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

You see people still sitting on subway trains while they tell everyone to get off. That’s their fault for sleeping/not paying attention. The best signs can’t even help with people like this.

It’s like the saying the customer is always right. Nope, some do overstretch their rights.

The "customer is always right" is bullcrap. The Karens that use that phrase are difficult customers that are almost never right.

 

While I'm on my Spadina rant, stand at the streetcar platform at Spadina station for a few minutes. People mistake the 510 as the line 1 train southbound all the time. Why walk 4 minutes to transfer to a subway that takes 10 minutes to get to union when you can waste 35 minutes of your life on a streetcar that barely manages a slow jogging speed?

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Anyone else noticing a lot of buses and streetcars randomly showing NOT IN SERVICE on the external signs when they are running their routes? WTF is wrong with their system?

On 7/9/2023 at 8:13 PM, Xtrazsteve said:

I don’t even know why they didn’t just extend the 325 to King and Parliament too. 

I haven't watched this route in a few months but isn't running time a bit tight as it is?

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17 minutes ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Anyone else noticing a lot of buses and streetcars randomly showing NOT IN SERVICE on the external signs when they are running their routes? WTF is wrong with their system?

This usually happens when operators set their signs to not in service while on layover and forget to set it back when they enter service. Just politely remind the driver if you want.

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32 EGLINTON WEST:

TO EGLINTON STATION > via EGLINTON W STN

They could’ve fit WEST and STATION in the second exposure to keep it consistent, doable because 29 DUFFERIN with a two-digit route number also has a very long destination line. Also I believe this is one of the routes where the name shifts to the left slightly when changing exposure, just like 11 BAYVIEW and 21 BRIMLEY. 

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26 minutes ago, TransitFan88 said:

32 EGLINTON WEST:

TO EGLINTON STATION > via EGLINTON W STN

They could’ve fit WEST and STATION in the second exposure to keep it consistent, doable because 29 DUFFERIN with a two-digit route number also has a very long destination line. Also I believe this is one of the routes where the name shifts to the left slightly when changing exposure, just like 11 BAYVIEW and 21 BRIMLEY. 

Yes, the sign shifts on 32. 35B is also like this. It looks like the top line text is programmed to centre itself above bottom line text.

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5 hours ago, transportationtoronto said:

This usually happens when operators set their signs to not in service while on layover and forget to set it back when they enter service. Just politely remind the driver if you want.

It's not. This is the sign randomly flipping over to say NOT IN SERVICE while the driver is doing driving things mid-route. It has to be the stupid automated system.

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8 hours ago, WoodbineSecondExit said:

Someone thought it was necessary to change the 503 signs from KINGSTON ROAD / TO VICTORIA PARK via QUEEN to KINGSTON ROAD / TO VICTORIA PARK. Baffling.

To be fair, that is about the same amount of information that CLRVs had.

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17 minutes ago, blue.bird.fan said:

To be fair, that is about the same amount of information that CLRVs had.

I really don't think it's that much information. People can read a map and figure out where they want to go. All it really needs to say is 503 EASTBOUND, NO SHORT TURN. Of course adding the route name 503 KINGSTON RD EASTBOUND would improve readability. 

It is only necessary to include more information when they have the 505 doing weird stuff

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7 minutes ago, Xtrazsteve said:

I didn’t explicitly say if they can’t read a map. Putting tons of stuff on the sign won’t help them.

North is up, west is left. Anything else is confusing. It takes me a half minute to figure out google directions on a cellphone, since everything there is linear.

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1 hour ago, Turtle said:

North is up, west is left. Anything else is confusing. It takes me a half minute to figure out google directions on a cellphone, since everything there is linear.

If they are following directions from Google maps, they don’t need to figure out anything. Get on the vehicle it says to and get off at the stop it says to. Travelling directions would certainly help like those on MiWay signs.

Then again, you’ll have to figure out which side of the street to cross to get to your connecting route. That could be a nightmare for some people.

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Back on topic, all!

Some of the eastbound Line 3 buses are saying “to Scarborough Ctr Stn” while others say “to McCowan Stn”. This can be confusing because the website and Twitter channel only mention that shuttle buses are running between Kennedy and McCowan, which could confuse the few people going all the way. Are only some buses going to McCowan.?

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10 minutes ago, blue.bird.fan said:

Back on topic, all!

Some of the eastbound Line 3 buses are saying “to Scarborough Ctr Stn” while others say “to McCowan Stn”. This can be confusing because the website and Twitter channel only mention that shuttle buses are running between Kennedy and McCowan, which could confuse the few people going all the way. Are only some buses going to McCowan.?

Typically yes, from my experience on other Line 3 shuttles not every shuttle bus continues all the way to McCowan. The vast majority of passengers are going to STC to transfer at the bus terminal there, and the road network east of there means it's probably another 10 minutes to loop out to McCowan and back to drop off/pick up zero passengers.

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