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1 hour ago, Gsgeek540 said:

If operators due their jobs the way they are trained, operating their vehicle using timed approached driving, the impact to the customer will be very minimal.

In other words, the painfully (and almost dangerously) slow operation of buses below the posted speed limit on arterial roads to do the maximum 50-minute drive from South Health to the Courthouse via the 302 routing off peak (assuming typical traffic, average 10 second stops at all bus stops, the advertised BRT traffic signal priority working the way it's supposed to, and being already relatively conservative with driving pace) in 57 minutes? The 60-minute northbound trip of Route 9 from Chinook to Dalhousie scheduled at 68 off peak..... 65-minute trip of Route 43 from Chinook to McKnight scheduled at an unbelievable 80 minutes off peak.... the list goes on.

What are we missing here?

The aforementioned issue of buses being 10 minutes early between time points despite a perfectly reasonable pace of driving would also be solved with some more care and effort done to design schedules realistically based on time of day, traffic, etc, like other systems in the country do. Anyone who's ridden buses in Vancouver or Toronto knows how expeditiously buses are often operated in these cities compared to Calgary, and yet hasn't experienced mid route time point layovers there anywhere near to the degree observed in Calgary, largely because of the schedule design there. What makes Calgary different in that that's not possible here resulting in the need for Sunday driving?

As for the argument of buses arriving "late" at endpoints where a scheduled layover is in place, to be frank, in my opinion that's a non issue. This is why real time info is problematic at terminals IMHO as it's often of little value at those locations. I've also noticed in most cases riding transit out here in the GTA that operators still have plenty of time to park their bus and address physiological needs even despite often arriving at terminals several minutes late, and I've even frequently observed operator reliefs at mid route intersections usually costing no more than a minute or so to the ride. 

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1 hour ago, Gsgeek540 said:

Timepoints restored in the area of Fort Calgary are as a result of the construction of the Inglewood bridge being complete, and the relief point outside of Fort Calgary being restored monday to friday, which eliminates the need of having to pay travel time to operators given the proximity to downtown.


In addition, given the lack of time points along route, there have been several complaints of running upwards of 10 minutes early in between time points, specifically in Inglewood, WB 9x6, NB 3x7 and WB 6xMac. The rule of thumb, although not official and enforceable, is to not run more then 5 minutes early between time points, as customers are asked to get to non time point stops atleast 5 minutes early.

 

If operators do their jobs the way they are trained, operating their vehicle using timed approached driving, the impact to the customer will be very minimal.

 

Driving a bus is not a race, regardless of the route, is moving people, maximize passenger loads and stick to the schedule. If buses are getting from east hills to penbrooke or brentwood to saddletowne on time, and achieving the factors above, what is there to complain about? 

You overestimate some bus ops 🤣

21 minutes ago, Nick B said:

In other words, the painfully (and almost dangerously) slow operation of buses below the posted speed limit on arterial roads to do the maximum 50-minute drive from South Health to the Courthouse via the 302 routing off peak (assuming typical traffic, average 10 second stops at all bus stops, the advertised BRT traffic signal priority working the way it's supposed to, and being already relatively conservative with driving pace) in 57 minutes? The 60-minute northbound trip of Route 9 from Chinook to Dalhousie scheduled at 68 off peak..... 65-minute trip of Route 43 from Chinook to McKnight scheduled at an unbelievable 80 minutes off peak.... the list goes on.

What are we missing here?

The aforementioned issue of buses being 10 minutes early between time points despite a perfectly reasonable pace of driving would also be solved with some more care and effort done to design schedules realistically based on time of day, traffic, etc, like other systems in the country do. Anyone who's ridden buses in Vancouver or Toronto knows how expeditiously buses are often operated in these cities compared to Calgary, and yet hasn't experienced mid route time point layovers there anywhere near to the degree observed in Calgary, largely because of the schedule design there. What makes Calgary different in that that's not possible here resulting in the need for Sunday driving?

As for the argument of buses arriving "late" at endpoints where a scheduled layover is in place, to be frank, in my opinion that's a non issue. This is why real time info is problematic at terminals IMHO as it's often of little value at those locations. I've also noticed in most cases riding transit out here in the GTA that operators still have plenty of time to park their bus and address physiological needs even despite often arriving at terminals several minutes late, and I've even frequently observed operator reliefs at mid route intersections usually costing no more than a minute or so to the ride. 

A great example of this is on the now route 75/old route 406. Why are there layovers in Seton both directions? Sure a timepoint would be acceptable but layovers? It's mid-route. Same with the 58. I've just worked a long day and have finally made it on the bus and am five minutes from home. Nope! Now we're sitting at the Petro-Canada for six minutes.

Classic example are on the last trips of the 6/13/22, going to Westhills. 5 minute layover at Richmond Terminal and then four minutes down the road, back the garage. 

 

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On 8/23/2022 at 6:43 PM, 2102 said:

Classic example are on the last trips of the 6/13/22, going to Westhills. 5 minute layover at Richmond Terminal and then four minutes down the road, back the garage. 

At least in Winnipeg, WT ended some routes randomly so least people who couldn't get home/ Downtown could at least get halfway there... 

Calgary should start doing the same thing, ESPECIALLY with trains to the NW & West after 12:30am. If they can't go all the way there, why not short-term it at Brentwood, Westbrook or something? That way, basic CTrain coverage is maintained, and anyone going W/NW would just have to taxi/Uber/walk from Brentwood/Westbrook versus all the way from downtown or elsewhere. Would much rather pay for a $12 Uber from Anderson at 2am than a $40 ride from downtown, or walking a few hours after work to get anywhere... I'm sure people living west of Westbrook & north of Brentwood would agree as well, some service is better than none. 

I mentioned it on CPTDB years ago, but basically something like this:

Basic CTrain service 00:00 to 05:00 - Brentwood to Anderson (Fish Creek alternative since there's no safe way to walk south from Anderson at night to Somerset?). Westbrook to Whitehorn. 

45 & 60 minute frequencies on all MAX routes, the 1, 9, 23, 38, 43, the 300 and the 302 between 11pm to 5am when service resumes. Basic service achieved. Covers most of Calgary. Anyone in suburbia needing the bus/train would at least save Uber/cab $$$ and thus also retain some level of ridership overnight. It also wouldn't screw over people that need late night/overnight jobs, and gives them options off the train as well, so safety boost would also exist - especially at the overnight terminus points with the extra people & buses around, also reducing shady activity. 

It might actually be possible to pull off an overnight transit service plan with CT. Minimal resources, basic coverage, makes everybody happy. Why it isn't a reality in a city of 1.2 (maybe 1.3 by now) million people, in the pre-1970 urbanized sections of the city, or even just the main employment corridors, astounds me.

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5 hours ago, armorand said:

At least in Winnipeg, WT ended some routes randomly so least people who couldn't get home/ Downtown could at least get halfway there... 

Calgary should start doing the same thing, ESPECIALLY with trains to the NW & West after 12:30am. If they can't go all the way there, why not short-term it at Brentwood, Westbrook or something? That way, basic CTrain coverage is maintained, and anyone going W/NW would just have to taxi/Uber/walk from Brentwood/Westbrook versus all the way from downtown or elsewhere. Would much rather pay for a $12 Uber from Anderson at 2am than a $40 ride from downtown, or walking a few hours after work to get anywhere... I'm sure people living west of Westbrook & north of Brentwood would agree as well, some service is better than none. 

I mentioned it on CPTDB years ago, but basically something like this:

Basic CTrain service 00:00 to 05:00 - Brentwood to Anderson (Fish Creek alternative since there's no safe way to walk south from Anderson at night to Somerset?). Westbrook to Whitehorn. 

45 & 60 minute frequencies on all MAX routes, the 1, 9, 23, 38, 43, the 300 and the 302 between 11pm to 5am when service resumes. Basic service achieved. Covers most of Calgary. Anyone in suburbia needing the bus/train would at least save Uber/cab $$$ and thus also retain some level of ridership overnight. It also wouldn't screw over people that need late night/overnight jobs, and gives them options off the train as well, so safety boost would also exist - especially at the overnight terminus points with the extra people & buses around, also reducing shady activity. 

It might actually be possible to pull off an overnight transit service plan with CT. Minimal resources, basic coverage, makes everybody happy. Why it isn't a reality in a city of 1.2 (maybe 1.3 by now) million people, in the pre-1970 urbanized sections of the city, or even just the main employment corridors, astounds me.

Agreed that late night service is long overdue for this city but I don’t believe running a truncated LRT service is the best option at all from any standpoint. When you get to that point, you may as well just run buses replacing the full length of both lines as the other cities with late night service do.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yeah I was also going to mention how busy it felt today I think it might have been a mistake for transit to make today Sept 30 a Sunday level of service for the holiday as clearly not everyone was given the day off. I was on a Red Line train earlier around 4:15 that was packed to the doors. Also saw fairly busy train stations downtown.

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1 hour ago, ProfessorWho said:

Yeah I was also going to mention how busy it felt today I think it might have been a mistake for transit to make today Sept 30 a Sunday level of service for the holiday as clearly not everyone was given the day off. I was on a Red Line train earlier around 4:15 that was packed to the doors. Also saw fairly busy train stations downtown.

Today is Saturday service ;)

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3 hours ago, Souluxy said:

great job Calgary Transit, this is what you get for putting 40 footers on the 301 on a Friday.

 

2 hours ago, ProfessorWho said:

Yeah I was also going to mention how busy it felt today I think it might have been a mistake for transit to make today Sept 30 a Sunday level of service for the holiday as clearly not everyone was given the day off. I was on a Red Line train earlier around 4:15 that was packed to the doors. Also saw fairly busy train stations downtown.

It wasn’t Calgary Transit’s decision to make today Saturday service.

The City Of Calgary is recognizing that today is a statutory holiday and Calgary Transit it’s just another department of The City Of Calgary. 

Passenger loads were a bit more heavier then normal and traffic volumes were much lighter during the morning and afternoon rush hours, but nothing compared to how it used to be pre-covid or if we even go further down the years before the economical downturn.

5-6 years ago during rush hour Calgary Transit when I was operating three and four car trains, they were they packed to the doors, leaving passengers behind much worse then the passenger loads you seen today. 
 

Today was an oddball day for transit because the Canadian government left it to the individual companies to make the decision to give their employees a day off. 

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1 hour ago, LRT said:

 

It wasn’t Calgary Transit’s decision to make today Saturday service.

The City Of Calgary is recognizing that today is a statutory holiday and Calgary Transit it’s just another department of The City Of Calgary. 

Passenger loads were a bit more heavier then normal and traffic volumes were much lighter during the morning and afternoon rush hours, but nothing compared to how it used to be pre-covid or if we even go further down the years before the economical downturn.

5-6 years ago during rush hour Calgary Transit when I was operating three and four car trains, they were they packed to the doors, leaving passengers behind much worse then the passenger loads you seen today. 
 

Today was an oddball day for transit because the Canadian government left it to the individual companies to make the decision to give their employees a day off. 

It is understandable that today is marked as a statutory holiday (for good reason) for the City. However, regarding the Canadian government and making companies whether they would make their employees have a day off would not necessarily be correct (as it seems to be up to the provincial governments to decide on that, of which New Brunswick, NWT, PEI, and Nunavut declared today as a stat holiday, something similar to what happened with the day of Queen Elizabeth II's funeral). Anyways back on the topic....

 

With what happened today, it was inevitable that there would be extremely crowded buses due to Saturday frequencies (like @Souluxy pointed out on the 301), and I'm sure riders in the industrial today were not pleased with 40 minute to hourly frequency on the 148, 149, and 150 (since the industrial was busy as any other weekday). In addition, I'm sure the 23 suffered even more, as it seems most of the 5 keys on it today were extremely late and thus probably left people behind during peak. None of this is acceptable, and quite frankly, going forward, something has to be done differently in the future when it comes to these "uncertain" holidays. Ridership may not be as high as it was pre-covid, but that gives no reason to ignore where ridership is still high and concentrated.

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1 hour ago, LRT said:

The City Of Calgary is recognizing that today is a statutory holiday and Calgary Transit it’s just another department of The City Of Calgary.

But it isn't. Public-facing transit service is not the same as the cashier's window at city hall, or the accounting department, or the library administration office. Pretending that running buses and trains is comparable to white-collar office work is a load of you-know-what.

What use is transit if it's not there for people who need it, when they need it? Most people didn't have the day off today, ergo, transit should have treated their paying customers (even if paying half price for a Sept. pass) with the respect they deserve and offered a service commensurate with today's expected demand. Even with schools out and much of the public sector closed, that still lots of other people going about their usual business today.

The only other holiday that gets Saturday service is Remembrance Day, which is an actual provincial stat holiday. Today, for all the importance and significance of what it represents, was nothing like that.

7 minutes ago, R. Meu said:

Ridership may not be as high as it was pre-covid, but that gives no reason to ignore where ridership is still high and concentrated.

Service levels today was either bureaucratic ineptitude, or worse: a complete lack of caring. 

I'm willing to bet some bean counter at Transit or the city probably thought running full weekday service was overkill on Sept. 30 last year. Then, someone decided they should run Saturday service this year, regardless of what the ridership would actually be like, even though the pandemic is less of a worry and way more people are out and about this year compared to last.

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I’m willing to wager in the near future that National Day for Truth and Reconciliation day will become a provincial statutory holiday. 
 

The city is taking the lead, and hopefully other businesses will follow, including the Province.

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24 minutes ago, LRT said:

I’m willing to wager in the near future that National Day for Truth and Reconciliation day will become a provincial statutory holiday. 
 

The city is taking the lead, and hopefully other businesses will follow, including the Province.

That is a totally fair way to look at it.

But it wasn't an official holiday this year and the city's decisions made Transit look really, really bad for no good reason. I am glad the city took the initiative on observing this very important day but they didn't have do it while throwing Transit and its customers under the bus, if you'll pardon the highly appropriate pun.

I'm very sorry for my ornery, irate messages this evening, but I am unusually livid about how Transit turned out today.

None of this was necessary and further turns off people from using the bus and train — which is the last thing Transit needs right now given all the other existing problems.

Please, let any number of random members of this forum run Calgary Transit. I bet we could do a better job. Honestly.

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32 minutes ago, downbeat said:

That is a totally fair way to look at it.

But it wasn't an official holiday this year and the city's decisions made Transit look really, really bad for no good reason. I am glad the city took the initiative on observing this very important day but they didn't have do it while throwing Transit and its customers under the bus, if you'll pardon the highly appropriate pun.

I'm very sorry for my ornery, irate messages this evening, but I am unusually livid about how Transit turned out today.

None of this was necessary and further turns off people from using the bus and train — which is the last thing Transit needs right now given all the other existing problems.

Please, let any number of random members of this forum run Calgary Transit. I bet we could do a better job. Honestly.

I couldn't agree more. Most other places simply ran weekdays service with some reductions during rush hour. That's what Calgary should've done. Or at least had a bunch of buses on standby waiting for the overloads. But in typical CT arrogant management fashion it was "we made the wrong decision but...it's the passengers problem!"

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I understand and agree with everyone's sentiment that a Saturday-level of service is not feasible on a day when most people employed by private companies had to go to work, but maintaining regular service levels today is easier said than done. The main issue that has not been mentioned above is purely financial in nature. The costs of running regular service levels while paying all drivers time and a half would be astronomical, especially at a time when transit is still recovering from the financial woes brought upon by the pandemic. And yes, Calgary Transit must align with the City of Calgary's commitment to treating Sept. 30 as a statutory holiday as it is a directly related business unit.

Really, this can all be avoided if the Province just aligns its labour standards with the Federal government's declaration of a statutory holiday, giving everyone the day off.

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41 minutes ago, School Bus 101 said:

The costs of running regular service levels while paying all drivers time and a half would be astronomical, especially at a time when transit is still recovering from the financial woes brought upon by the pandemic. And yes, Calgary Transit must align with the City of Calgary's commitment to treating Sept. 30 as a statutory holiday as it is a directly related business unit.

You are probably right to say running a full weekday service on Sept. 30 would be financially irresponsible. But that's not what anyone here (or anywhere) is asking for.

Someone, somewhere decided the only levels of service that can be offered are weekday, Saturday, Sunday and Christmas.

Why doesn't Calgary Transit have a service plan for busy holiday days that is more than a normal weekend but less than a weekday? Yeah, it's probably a lot of work to figure out. But as a provider of transit service, working out things like this is your job. If people at Calgary Transit are not interested in finding creative, cost-effective ways to bring service to the people who give up their hard-earned money to pay for cash fares/tickets/transit passes, then let someone else who does give a damn do the job.

I'm so sick of hearing why transit can't do this or can't do that. A quarter to half a billion dollars isn't the best transit budget on the continent, but it's still a lot of money.

Make some decisions. Manage.

41 minutes ago, School Bus 101 said:

Really, this can all be avoided if the Province just aligns its labour standards with the Federal government's declaration of a statutory holiday, giving everyone the day off.

But they didn't, as much as I wish they would. That would have been the right thing to do.

So why is the city/Calgary Transit punishing Transit customers for a decision the provincial government didn't make? And giving themselves terrible PR on top of it all?

P.S. I'm not trying to pick on you, @School Bus 101. You just happen to be the person whose argument is being quoted!! 😂

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12 hours ago, downbeat said:

Please, let any number of random members of this forum run Calgary Transit. I bet we could do a better job. Honestly.

Well they could not do any worse than people running it now, who seem to have no transit experience!

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On 10/1/2022 at 10:08 AM, D40LF said:

Well they could not do any worse than people running it now, who seem to have no transit experience!

Gotta admit though: at least compared to how bad Winnipeg Transit apparently is right now, I haven't seen any pass-ups much lately. Which is definitely a good sign. Even if CT refuses to run four-car trains & throws all their buses on school runs instead of assigning the extra service to normal routes to help people out around the city... 

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17 minutes ago, LRT said:

Probably has to do with the new queue jump  

Great idea! Long overdue. :D  However, they should ban right turns on red there. I'm almost certain some inattentive non-transit driver will end up cutting buses off and causing a big to-do. (I mean, look at 26th Street S.E. on the 17th Avenue Transitway. All the signs and lights in the world aren't enough to prevent idiot drivers from being … idiot drivers.)

All that's missing now are full bus lanes in the curb lanes on 5th and 6th during peak hours …

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Is that gonna be an optional queue jump or are all buses expected to use the queue jump lane to turn left? If the former, I don't see it getting used much unless it's peak hours or just really busy on 5th Ave. I also wonder what the priority will actually be like. The city doesn't exactly have a good track record for prioritizing signals of transit only lanes.

Also, don't most (if not all) those routes already have a stop near 2nd St SW? Are we seriously just getting another stop a block away?

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14 hours ago, LRT said:

Probably has to do with the new queue jump  

 

40EF83D4-C3DF-49D1-8CC1-0079A688A045.jpeg

Thus far this morning, it appears that the Queue Jump light isn't working. A few busses I saw ended up having to go straight through and loop around The Bow.

Also, all the routes that stopped outside of Suncor Energy Centre before have moved to stopping at The Bow instead. Surprise!

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