busfan0947 Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 850 towed to Capital Bus?!?I'm sure I saw 850 recently during rush hour!!! #848 on the other hand, is probably gone, since I haven't seen that one in a very long time. I doubt they sold off their 1998 Classic already, it's not even 10 years old, and they just rebuilt and repainted about 2 years ago, and CITSO is known to run their vehicles for an average of 18 - 20 years. I'm going to have to check into this, because this is a serious issue if they're starting to get rid of their Classics. Primarily because this may affect SMS's possible future charter plans, and secondly Auger isn't known to sell off his buses, he runs them into the ground, and leaves them at the far back of his yards. He obviously has an appreciation of old buses, because he bought up a few of those Connaisseur trolly buses that I had mentioned on the forum last fall. Thanks for the info though, I'm going to have to check out on Monday now to find out for sure what's going on. I can now confirm that CITSO 850 has been scrapped at Capital bus parts. No way it could be refurbished at this point... 849 is still in one piece but I don't know what is next for this bus. Also there is an Auger bus numbered 901 (2 door Classic). I wonder where it was used by Auger, as all VIN numbers are gone, even the one in the engine compartment... Can someone tell me about this bus and, if possible, it's VIN? 849 is ex CIT Des Moulins 5018 MCI 1991, and still has it's previous owner's original rollsign.. nice! 850 is also ex CIT Des Moulins 5019 (1994 Novabus) So, this brings me this question. I'm not so shure now that 850 and 851 are really from 1997, by looking at their VIN: 850: November 1994 Novabus Classic Suburban - 2NVYT82J6R3000400 851: November 1994 Novabus Classic Suburban - 2NVYT82J8R3000401 also ex CIT des Moulins 5020 It looks now almost impossible to me that TWO buses had their serial number replaced by VIN that are following each other in sequence. Also, by looking at bus rosters on the net (http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/builders/novaTC.html), it is indicated that those two 1997 Classics were numbered 650 and 651 for Auger. Can someone officially confirm that 650-651 were effectively renumbered 850-851 at some time? Although there could be errors on this site, I'm suggesting that we might have to look at other buses Auger in search for those two 1997 buses, and maybe even out of Auger properties... What do you think, guys ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I can now confirm that CITSO 850 has been scrapped at Capital bus parts. No way it could be refurbished at this point... 849 is still in one piece but I don't know what is next for this bus. Also there is an Auger bus numbered 901 (2 door Classic). I wonder where it was used by Auger, as all VIN numbers are gone, even the one in the engine compartment... Can someone tell me about this bus and, if possible, it's VIN?849 is ex CIT Des Moulins 5018 MCI 1991, and still has it's previous owner's original rollsign.. nice! 850 is also ex also ex CIT Des Moulins 5019 (1994 Novabus) So, this brings me this question. I'm not so shure now that 850 and 851 are really from 1997, by looking at their VIN: 850: November 1994 Novabus Classic Suburban - 2NVYT82J6R3000400 851: November 1994 Novabus Classic Suburban - 2NVYT82J8R3000401 also ex CIT des Moulins 5020 It looks now almost impossible to me that TWO buses had their serial number replaced by VIN that are following each other. Also, by looking at bus rosters on the net (http://www.angelfire.com/ca/TORONTO/builders/novaTC.html), it is indicated that those two 1997 Classics were numbered 650 and 651 for Auger. Can someone officially confirm that 650-651 were effectively renumbered 850-851 at some time? Although there could be errors on this site, I'm suggesting that we might have to look at other buses Auger has for finding those two 1997 buses, even out of Auger properties... What do you think, guys ? I think you mean #848, not #849, since it's still in active service here. (And that I have photo proof to prove). 850 and 851 were renumbered from 650 and 651 when the CIT's changed hands, they also used to start with numbers 8837-8845, then changed to 837-845 to remove the year of manufacture, then 644-651 when it left back in 1998, now 644-651 were brought back in 2002 and renumbered 844-851. There are photos of Auger driving the Classics with full paint scheme, but back in 2002, they slowly repainted them all over one by one with a white wash. 844 being the last original paint scheme, and 849 still has the scheme from a few years later. There is another Classic a 1994 that appeared and disappeared shortly after from Auger and it was from La Quebecoise, but only appeared on the road for two weeks and disappeared, perhaps one of those could be in this group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan0947 Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 I think you mean #848, not #849, since it's still in active service here. (And that I have photo proof to prove). I can confirm you that 849 is now at Capital. Saw it just yesterday... Although photos of 848 were posted on this thread (when towed), I saw no trace of it. Maybe inside the building... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uwe Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ah, I see. Thanks, Alex . Looks like a 45 footer to me. 1996 model? Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 OMG!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IT! I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE ANY OF THIS RIGHT NOW, I AM JUST IN UTTER SHOCK. The only thing I can say; we were warned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Oh no! Was 850 that bad? What happens if 847 or 851 is next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huz66511 Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Oh no! Was 850 that bad? What happens if 847 or 851 is next? Hello Everyone, I would have to say by the information shown earlier in the thread that CITSO-Auger 851 is NOT the last Classic built. Instead, it is a 1994 coach built originally for CIT des Moulins as their 5020. In fact, CITSO-Auger must have bought all five of the former CIT des Moulins Classics (5016-5020) and numbered them as 847-851. I remember CITSO having some odd looking buses in the 500 series in the early 2000's (may have a photo or two somewhere). I would have to guess that 847-851 were purchased when CIT des Moulins changed into MRC Moulins and purchased a large number of Orion V's. Probably around the same time that the CITSO-Auger units arrived. What does everyone think? I have a lot of fleet roster information if anyone is interested...I need VIN numbers for a lot of units though!!! Cheers! Bob Hussey Medford, MA USeh 315 miles South of Y'all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMS Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 So then STO has the last Classics then! I presume. Whatever the case is, last week I've only seen three Classics on property 847, 851, 858, and all others are unaccounted for at present so it appears that this is as good as it gets! BTW today I rode 701 and 860 with resident CIT specialist Alex, meh is all I have to say, no Classics seen at all, a couple of Orion Vs were out but were deadheading. I was happy because I got two transfers today from them. I have figured out the lunch break stop for Chateauguay... d'Anjou offers TimHos/Wendys, McD's, and if one wants to vomit, Subway... Super C is in the front if someone wants cheap cola... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm_5307N Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hello Everyone,I would have to say by the information shown earlier in the thread that CITSO-Auger 851 is NOT the last Classic built. Instead, it is a 1994 coach built originally for CIT des Moulins as their 5020. In fact, CITSO-Auger must have bought all five of the former CIT des Moulins Classics (5016-5020) and numbered them as 847-851. I remember CITSO having some odd looking buses in the 500 series in the early 2000's (may have a photo or two somewhere). I would have to guess that 847-851 were purchased when CIT des Moulins changed into MRC Moulins and purchased a large number of Orion V's. Probably around the same time that the CITSO-Auger units arrived. What does everyone think? I have a lot of fleet roster information if anyone is interested...I need VIN numbers for a lot of units though!!! Cheers! Bob Hussey Medford, MA USeh 315 miles South of Y'all Bob's word is as good as Gold.. Sorry Mystic, but CITSO doesn't have the last Classic built. The question is now.. where is the real last Nova Classic Auger #615 now? The STO has the last transit style with rear doors Classics ever built #9701 to 9705. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 Bob's word is as good as Gold.. Sorry Mystic, but CITSO doesn't have the last Classic built. The question is now.. where is the real last Nova Classic Auger #615 now? The STO has the last transit style with rear doors Classics ever built #9701 to 9705. *651 I think you mean. That's the question I think we would all love to know. But I think I have an answer, a possible hypothesis if you will. Remember a few years ago both #850 and #851 had rusted front ends with the Novabus red logo, and had the Auger colour scheme on the sides. Well, when they disappeared and reappeared completely "rebuilt" and repainted, could it have been possible that they sent them to Capital for a rebuild, or trade-in, and bought the rebuilt MRC fleet with the profits. One thing though that I still don't understand is that atleast one of the roll signs on these Classics (850 or 851) has the original Auger roll sign. So it does include the Chateauguay routes that were current up until the late 90's. A driver this past spring had the destination set between "SPECIAL" and "CHATEAUGUAY ROUTE #17". The only real way to find out is to go in person and find out for ourselves; something is going on, and I want to know. And if Chateauguay doesn't have the last Classics, anymore, then where are they! Retired?!? Does anyone have a VIN # of them? Were #650 and #651 traded in for #850 and #851 to get a few dollars back in their investment? Those are questions I want to have answered. #851 is currently the only Classic in service at the moment it seems. And if Mario went to the Auger yards and saw no others, than that means that all the rest that were at the rear of the lot are long gone. Shame really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan0947 Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 *651 I think you mean.That's the question I think we would all love to know. But I think I have an answer, a possible hypothesis if you will. Remember a few years ago both #850 and #851 had rusted front ends with the Novabus red logo, and had the Auger colour scheme on the sides. Well, when they disappeared and reappeared completely "rebuilt" and repainted, could it have been possible that they sent them to Capital for a rebuild, or trade-in, and bought the rebuilt MRC fleet with the profits. One thing though that I still don't understand is that atleast one of the roll signs on these Classics (850 or 851) has the original Auger roll sign. So it does include the Chateauguay routes that were current up until the late 90's. A driver this past spring had the destination set between "SPECIAL" and "CHATEAUGUAY ROUTE #17". The only real way to find out is to go in person and find out for ourselves; something is going on, and I want to know. And if Chateauguay doesn't have the last Classics, anymore, then where are they! Retired?!? Does anyone have a VIN # of them? Were #650 and #651 traded in for #850 and #851 to get a few dollars back in their investment? Those are questions I want to have answered. #851 is currently the only Classic in service at the moment it seems. And if Mario went to the Auger yards and saw no others, than that means that all the rest that were at the rear of the lot are long gone. Shame really... The rebuild could have been an explanation as you say, with modified front end. But, remember, 1997 units have "T" drive transmission and a Cummins engine and I doubt very much they would remove all this and put a 6V92 engine with "V" transmission at high costs when rebuilding the bus. I saw the 6V92 inside 650... Mystic, you must have heard this bus a lot of time before ... So I think we have a chase to make here. And it's a hard one. How can we know if those two buses that were supposed to be delivered to Auger, as 650 and 651, were effectively delivered to them? Were V3000018-V3000019 delivered anywhere else in Quebec or Canada, even USA? Hard to know. Was the order dropped at the last minute by Auger and this is why it still appears on rosters? I wonder if we'll be ever able to know... About this Auger 901 Classic bus I was talking about, can someone tell me about it? Year of bus, where it served and if available, the VIN number... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 The rebuild could have been an explanation as you say, with modified front end. But, remember, 1997 units have "T" drive transmission and a Cummins engine and I doubt very much they would remove all this and put a 6V92 engine with "V" transmission at high costs when rebuilding the bus. I saw the 6V92 inside 650... Mystic, you must have heard this bus a lot of time before ...So I think we have a chase to make here. And it's a hard one. How can we know if those two buses that were supposed to be delivered to Auger, as 650 and 651, were effectively delivered to them? Were V3000018-V3000019 delivered anywhere else in Quebec or Canada, even USA? Hard to know. Was the order dropped at the last minute by Auger and this is why it still appears on rosters? I wonder if we'll be ever able to know... About this Auger 901 Classic bus I was talking about, can someone tell me about it? Year of bus, where it served and if available, the VIN number... Thanks! Well, I was hinting more at them changing the bus entirely and reusing the same series number, since they have done this with the Dina Viaggio's a few years back, one day they were there, and the next day 701 and 702 were Prevosts! 700 was a mini-bus (1997 Champion Solo) back then as well. I saw it parked next to the Dairy Queen in Chateauguay back then, but haven't seen it since the company traded hands. Regarding the 901 Classic, you've got me! Nothing like that has ever appeared in Chateauguay. The only 1994 Nova Classic that I've seen in Chateauguay was an ex: CITLR #9451, which lasted a few weeks. The same with an RTS, that was completely painted white and had no series numbers, but it had a red Balios that was rarely used, and arrived around the same time as the Transcar Classic we have now, (which completely OT, is able to greet you with Bonjour or Bonsoir as the destination!). I wonder if Auger plans on getting more Classics, we've always had a good supply of them in the past, I think it would be great to have a selection of transit buses to use, rather than the same old Orion's & LFSes all the time. I suppose all these retirements explain why Auger was running them into the ground have having them run day and night service all the time during the last few months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm_5307N Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Well, I was hinting more at them changing the bus entirely and reusing the same series number, since they have done this with the Dina Viaggio's a few years back, one day they were there, and the next day 701 and 702 were Prevosts! 700 was a mini-bus (1997 Champion Solo) back then as well. I saw it parked next to the Dairy Queen in Chateauguay back then, but haven't seen it since the company traded hands. Regarding the 901 Classic, you've got me! Nothing like that has ever appeared in Chateauguay. The only 1994 Nova Classic that I've seen in Chateauguay was an ex: CITLR #9451, which lasted a few weeks. The same with an RTS, that was completely painted white and had no series numbers, but it had a red Balios that was rarely used, and arrived around the same time as the Transcar Classic we have now, (which completely OT, is able to greet you with Bonjour or Bonsoir as the destination!).I wonder if Auger plans on getting more Classics, we've always had a good supply of them in the past, I think it would be great to have a selection of transit buses to use, rather than the same old Orion's & LFSes all the time. I suppose all these retirements explain why Auger was running them into the ground have having them run day and night service all the time during the last few months! Didn't CITSO have a Paling Alouette as well at one point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Didn't CITSO have a Paling Alouette as well at one point? Indeed they did. It was used for Casino shuttles, from what I recall, it originally had a Galland paint scheme, but was then painted in the purple and blue paint scheme. I never had the chance to ride it, but it passed though Chateauguay often, and I always wondered why they never used it for regular service. The same goes for all of the ex-STCUM New Looks that they spent so much time and money repainting to have an entire fleet of "real" New Looks for the Casino Shuttle. They were retired soon after, and replaced with a fleet of STRSM GM Classics. (Watch the episode of Les Bougons and see the bus number). It's an RTL Classic with Montreal New Look seating and a CITSO Series Number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm_5307N Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Whatever the case is now, here's a pic of CIT Sud-Ouest (CITSO) #651 taken in 1997 brand new: Indeed they did. It was used for Casino shuttles, from what I recall, it originally had a Galland paint scheme, but was then painted in the purple and blue paint scheme. I never had the chance to ride it, but it passed though Chateauguay often Too bad nobody has a pic of that piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Demers Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Damn shame... Luckily I got 847, 851 and 858 a few months ago. But I sure could use a re-take of 847 and 858. And just curious, when did 844, 845 and 846 retire? Aaaand one more thing guys, let's NOT waste time hunting these Classics down too!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm_5307N Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Just for the heck of it, here's the 3rd to last Classic ever built. The order right before last one which went to Auger. Its Limocar #9799: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Damn shame... Luckily I got 851 and 858 on my camera and that all-white front bus a few months ago...is that 847 or 848? And just curious, when did 844, 845 and 846 retire? The time frame when 844,845,846,848 retired were around late fall. #844 which was given a total white wash for some reason lasted 2 years afterwards and was then retired, but that was the oldest in the fleet, a 1988 MCI Classic, from the original Auger back in the 80's. It had the full side destination roll sign as well! I remember seeing it parked at the far back of the Auger lot in November. And the rest must have been retired shortly after. #848 I did not see very often at all, and I'm surprised it only was take away recently, considering #850 was in service until not too long ago, and #849 was in service up until last week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Demers Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Just for the heck of it, here's the 3rd to last Classic ever built. The order right before last one which went to Auger. Its Limocar #9799: Is it still around under a different fleet number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm_5307N Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I would have to say by the information shown earlier in the thread that CITSO-Auger 851 is NOT the last Classic built. Instead, it is a 1994 coach built originally for CIT des Moulins as their 5020. In fact, CITSO-Auger must have bought all five of the former CIT des Moulins Classics (5016-5020) and numbered them as 847-851. Here's CIT des Moulins #5020 in 1997. Can this be the present day CITSO #851 that your refering to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general682002 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Wait, isn't someone mentioned there's a Series 50 engine on one of the CITSO fleet of Classic? Remind me what unit is it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellergraham Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I have a lot of fleet roster information if anyone is interested...I need VIN numbers for a lot of units though!!!Cheers! Bob Hussey Medford, MA USeh 315 miles South of Y'all I'd like to see that fleet roster, for compilation of the mega CIT Roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Demers Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Just a post to post pictures of some of the retired CITSO Classics. All pictures courtesy of Mystic. CITSO 844 - http://mystic.fotopic.net CITSO 848 - http://mystic.fotopic.net CITSO 849 - http://www.transitfan.com CITSO 849 - http://www.transitfan.com See how great 849 looked! It makes me sad to see such a nice looking bus go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Notice the picture of 851 and 651, they had two entirely different paint schemes, and the Novabus logo was on the opposite side. What I can figure is that someone played the old switcheroo and sold off the original Classics soon after they bought them, and renumbered their 6 series to 8, but since 850 and 851 were already sold, they used the numbers over again when they purchased new buses. So now the mission is to find out where the Real 650 and 651 have ended up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtltransitguy Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Notice the picture of 851 and 651, they had two entirely different paint schemes, and the Novabus logo was on the opposite side. What I can figure is that someone played the old switcheroo and sold off the original Classics soon after they bought them, and renumbered their 6 series to 8, but since 850 and 851 were already sold, they used the numbers over again when they purchased new buses. So now the mission is to find out where the Real 650 and 651 have ended up! Yes that is what I want to know. We have solved why they are not the same bus, but that means that the last two classics have disappeared! SMS, you seem to be good friends with people at CITSO, maybe you could investigate who they were sold to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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