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Enzo Aquarius
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With GO Transit maintaining that they'd be willing to provide much more frequent GO Train service between Bramalea GO and Union until the bypass track is in place for CN freights. Two questions.
1) Where is this bypass track in relation to the Bramalea GO Station itself and its platforms?
2) Noticed earlier this week around Malton GO that there was a CN freight head west. I was surprised given that I had thought that CN trains would be more common on the subdivision that crosses southern part of York/North York through towards Durham. Is the area around Malton GO where the CN bypass track is?

Another related topic is that if GO to look at two-way service on the Milton line, I've heard about this 'missing link' or such about a new corridor for CP frieghts so that Metrolinx/GO can have full ownership of the line. Where would this missing link be located? Or, would this be in an area closer to another active GO line, but not the Milton line?

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17 hours ago, newflyerinvero said:

With GO Transit maintaining that they'd be willing to provide much more frequent GO Train service between Bramalea GO and Union until the bypass track is in place for CN freights. Two questions.
1) Where is this bypass track in relation to the Bramalea GO Station itself and its platforms?

A look at the multitude of maps that have been created for the Bypass, along with a quick look of the area on an areal viewing application such as Google Maps would give you a far better explanation of where the bypass will go at the Brampton end than any post you'd read on a forum such as this.

 

But to quickly answer before you do that research - the Bypass would pass to the east of Bramalea Station.

 

17 hours ago, newflyerinvero said:

2) Noticed earlier this week around Malton GO that there was a CN freight head west. I was surprised given that I had thought that CN trains would be more common on the subdivision that crosses southern part of York/North York through towards Durham. Is the area around Malton GO where the CN bypass track is?

No, the Bypass would not travel anywhere near Malton Station. CN still services a number of customers all the way down to Highway 401 - that train you saw in the train that services them.

 

17 hours ago, newflyerinvero said:

Another related topic is that if GO to look at two-way service on the Milton line, I've heard about this 'missing link' or such about a new corridor for CP frieghts so that Metrolinx/GO can have full ownership of the line. Where would this missing link be located? Or, would this be in an area closer to another active GO line, but not the Milton line?

The "Missing Link" is one group's name for the Bypass. It is being designed in mind to allow for the trains of both CN and CP to use it, even if it was only being used by CN to start. But moving CP to it and the freight-only CN York and Halton Subs (which comprise the freight-only bypass around the City) would also free up the Galt Sub, and should in theory allow for GO's exclusive use of it.

 

Dan

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On 11/17/2018 at 8:37 AM, Bus_Medic said:

For the sake of convenience, I’ll leave this here:

B8CFBA33-E8B2-4A8F-AB1D-2E484C0BA84B.thumb.jpeg.3556883b2832d8123cb15e2f9612beba.jpeg

Total of 5 ex go 8000s being loaded in Agincourt yard this morning, destined for their second lives in parts unknown. Numbers still on, though I only noted 8003 and 8017

Spotted another lot (maybe 6 or so) being loaded today.

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I was listening to 680 on the way into work this afternoon and they reported that regular Go train service to Niagara Falls was going to start in January.  Hearing this on the radio surprised me because it was only a few days ago that they announced the current construction program has been kiboshed because they want the private sector to do it so I thought Go train service past Hamilton would be even longer away from starting up.  Personally, I'm still waiting for the private sector to construct all those subways that Doug's younger brother claimed they were beating down the door to build years ago.  Anyways, I have relatives who live in the peninsula and there's been a condo boom all the way round from Hamilton well into Grimsby between the QEW and the lake and the region desperately needs a lot more commuter rail service.

I looked up the details after things settled down at work:

Metrolinx adds 1 daily GO train trip to and from Niagara

That's it.  You get one round trip a day.  I hope nobody gets stuck at the office and misses their one train home.  It stops at St. Catharines and Niagara Falls probably at the existing Via stations.  It doesn't do anything to help with the condo boom in Grimsby because the train station that was going to go in across the street from the Niagara Gateway Centre where they have this giant poster showing a train in a blur of motion racing underneath overhead wires isn't going to happen until they rework the procurement.  Not to mention the whole implied electrification shown in the billboard probably amounts to false advertising considering between CN and CP, the hydrogen fetish that set in during the last year of Kathleen Wynne's administration, and the general reluctance to do anything in Ontario that involves using proven off the shelf equipment because "cost effective" and "reliable" is something the government here has never liked.

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14 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

That's it.  You get one round trip a day.  I hope nobody gets stuck at the office and misses their one train home. 

There are already GO buses that connect to Burlington GO to Stoney Creek, Grimsby, ... Niagara Falls - which are a lot faster outside of rush hour. Arriving as 1:20 AM in Niagara Falls. No one will be left behind.

At that time of night, it's only 85 minutes on bus from Burlington GO to Niagara Falls, compared to 100 minutes at 5 pm. The summer Friday night train takes 84 minutes from Burlington GO to Niagara Falls.

I think this is exactly what they should be doing. Start some services sooner than later. I'd be thrilled if there was a single morning train to Kitchener now - I don't need one every 15 minutes! Invest in restoring the siding that served that route well for over 100 years ... instead of no new service and decades of planned studies and upgrades.

Looking at the proposed schedule though. Departs Union at 17:15 pm, Burlington GO at 18:06, West Harbour at 18:27, St. Catharines at 19:22 and Niagara Falls at 19:47. Gosh, that's 100 minutes from Burlington GO to Niagara Falls. There's already an 18:01 bus from Burlington GO that get's to Niagara Falls at in only 95 minutes at 19:36 after departing Union on a train at 17:00.

And 152 minutes from Union to Niagara Falls. Compare to the 124 minutes that the Friday-night summer train and 156 minutes for the bus. Heck, there's an express bus on Friday nights that makes it only 131 minutes from Union to Niagara Falls (train until Burlington).

On Friday nights, you can catch a 17:15 train that arrives at Niagara Falls at 19:47. Or catch the 17:00 train, and arrive in Niagara Falls at 19:11! (unless they cancel the bus)

I fear ridership on this won't be spectacular.

What Niagara Falls need, is service like the current 116 minutes VIA Rail/Amtrak service from Union. Or the 1980s VIA train that used to depart Union at 17:40 and arrive Niagara Falls at 19:35 in only 115 minutes.

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I honestly had forgotten about the connecting bus service.  I agree, an incremental build out is better than nothing but I have to say after all the headline hype on 680 News that didn't mention the details about the service level, it was a major letdown once I got into work and read the release.  I'm also agree with your ridership estimate.  The train ride is a long trip in itself before factoring in the travel to the train station in St. Catharines or Niagara Falls and between Union and the ultimate destination in Toronto which will add to that.

I vaguely remember hearing discussion about a passenger ferry service between St. Catharines and Toronto back in the late 80s but I don't think it amounted to much then and definitely didn't survive that brutal recession in the early 1990s.  The logic is sound though.  With an adequately fast enough ferry, cutting across the lake from Toronto to a couple of places in the Niagara region would be faster than any train/bus/car trip taking the long way around on land.

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Apparently the Niagara commuter plan is to stop, back into West Harbour, then proceed as a standard West Harbour train. Hopefully having this five days a week and then the reverse another five will cause area residents to lean on their MPPs to have Metrolinx figure out how to get the eastern entrance/exit from WH done faster

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The service enhancement will definitely become a lot more attractive when Confederation GO is finished next year and the Eastern connection at West Harbour is complete. Getting the service in place is at least a good way to make people aware of it, even if it isn't incredibly useful at this point in time. The Niagara Falls GO bus gets ridiculously crowded during the week and during peak tourist season.

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How much traffic is there on the Grimsby sub now that it would affect GO traffic? Isn't that line mostly double tracked anyways?

So will this train dead head to Niagara in the morning from Aldershot? And then return again after its last run? I dont remember if there is wayside power at the station in Niagara Falls. 

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On 12/15/2018 at 7:40 AM, dowlingm said:

Apparently the Niagara commuter plan is to stop, back into West Harbour, then proceed as a standard West Harbour train. Hopefully having this five days a week and then the reverse another five will cause area residents to lean on their MPPs to have Metrolinx figure out how to get the eastern entrance/exit from WH done faster

This maneuver is already being done 5 days a week, and has been for over a year. The trains are currently stabled in Stoney Creek.

 

The bigger issue will be that this train will be deadheading to and from that current facility to Niagara Falls. By my maths, that's a one-way trip of over 50 kilometers - and a trip-time of over an hour due to the track speed, restrictions and the fact that, much like West Harbour Station, the trains will need to back out, have the crew change ends and then proceed east to Niagara Falls.

 

Dan

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2 hours ago, smallspy said:

The bigger issue will be that this train will be deadheading to and from that current facility to Niagara Falls. By my maths, that's a one-way trip of over 50 kilometers - and a trip-time of over an hour due to the track speed, restrictions and the fact that, much like West Harbour Station, the trains will need to back out, have the crew change ends and then proceed east to Niagara Falls.

Now you might appreciate if they rebuilt the train line over the Burlington Canal lift bridge. It would also eliminate the possibility of commuters boarding at West Harbour having to fight for seats with those from Niagara.

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6 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Now you might appreciate if they rebuilt the train line over the Burlington Canal lift bridge. It would also eliminate the possibility of commuters boarding at West Harbour having to fight for seats with those from Niagara.

So are you suggesting that they should have had the foresight to mothball the line for 40 years?

 

Because frankly that's a ridiculous suggestion.

 

The other thing is that to be completely honest, most of you have this all wrong. Very, very few people come from Niagara Falls or St. Catharines to Toronto for work. The vast majority of people making that commute are going to places like Hamilton and Burlington and Oakville. And this schedule only barely works for them. It's a start, I suppose, but just that.

 

Dan

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11 minutes ago, smallspy said:

So are you suggesting that they should have had the foresight to mothball the line for 40 years?

 

Because frankly that's a ridiculous suggestion.

 

The other thing is that to be completely honest, most of you have this all wrong. Very, very few people come from Niagara Falls or St. Catharines to Toronto for work. The vast majority of people making that commute are going to places like Hamilton and Burlington and Oakville. And this schedule only barely works for them. It's a start, I suppose, but just that.

 

Dan

True enough, I've run into more people that commute into Toronto from Fort Erie every day by far than from Niagara Falls.  That commute's insane.  The first time I encountered someone doing that, they were driving from Fort Erie to Rexdale Blvd. and Highway 27 daily and I ended up asking a bunch of questions about how often he was getting his oil changed and what the rest of the maintenance schedule on his car looked like.  It was not cheap.

Personally, I think getting decent service run through West Harbour to the new station being built on Centennial Pkwy. noth of Barton St. and to Grimsby where all that heavy development's been taking place is important.  There's a good CBC documentary from 1966 called "Rails or Rubber" and one of the segments was shot in the CN yard in Hamilton talking about how, when Go train service was going to start up, running it through to Hamilton with any kind of frequency would be impossible without dealing with the throughput and capacity constraints in the area.

Rails or Rubber

I'm glad that progress on this vexatious problem has taken place at the usual rate for this province for the last 52 years.  We wouldn't want to rush things now, would we?  "Ontariariariariariario!  A place too bland, a place too slow!"

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48 minutes ago, Wayside Observer said:

There's a good CBC documentary from 1966 called "Rails or Rubber"

That was a very good documentary. I do love the all the positive comments from commuters that personally prefer to use public transit, and from all the CEO's, Chairmen etc agreeing about the importance of winkling people out of their cars by providing stellar service.  Good to see that they did have their priorities in the right place. 

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19 hours ago, smallspy said:

The other thing is that to be completely honest, most of you have this all wrong. Very, very few people come from Niagara Falls or St. Catharines to Toronto for work. The vast majority of people making that commute are going to places like Hamilton and Burlington and Oakville. And this schedule only barely works for them. It's a start, I suppose, but just that.

 

Dan

 

I'd definitely agree with this. Hamilton has been draws a fair share of manufacturing and healthcare workers from the Niagara Region. Since moving to St. Catharines I've met at least a dozen people who regularly commute into Hamilton-Burlington for work since those jobs just don't exist here any more. I'd expect those types of people to be the ones taking advantage of this service as the commute along the QEW has become incredibly congested recently as you enter Stoney Creek. I wouldn't expect much ridership from the station in Niagara Falls however and I kinda feel like that portion could have been cut from the service entirely as it would have improved the time required to deadhead the trains from Stoney Creek to St. Catharines. I guess that part was more of a PR thing cause extending train service to Niagara without actually running to Niagara Falls sounds pretty silly, even if the numbers won't end up working out.

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Lots of bus changes coming too, that unfortunately GO decided to hide by just telling people to check the schedule. This is not a complete list by any means, just changes I saw by glancing through the schedules. 

25C: New AM weekday westbound trip at 7:00a, and two Monday only trips at 8:30a and 9:30a. Saturday 25C eastbound trips now operate hourly from 7:45a to 8:50p and westbound from 9:40a to 10:40p. 

25F: Ending at 407 Station. New Sunday trips starting eastbound at 12:30p and ending westbound at 10:20p.

29: New westbound trip during the school year at 8:50a. 

37: New 37A and 37B branches. 37A runs northbound with 2 trips at 5:50a and 6:50a, ending at Orangeville Mall. 37B runs southbound with 4 trips starting from 5:50p until 9:20p starting from Orangeville Carpool. Seems like these trips are mostly just converting deadheading trips to revenue service.

38: 7:08a southbound trip shifted 30 minutes earlier to 6:38a. Unfortunately this now leaves a 3 hour gap before the next bus at 9:22a

40: New 40B branch operating one westbound morning trip from Richmond Hill Centre to Pearson making regular stops. Weekend daytime service increased to every 30 minutes.

45/46/47/48: All trips now ending at 407 station.

47: Service extended an additional hour, and starts an hour earlier on westbound trips. Weekend service span expanded to match weekdays. Additional Sunday 47F trip eastbound at 2:05p.

48: Weekday service extended an additional hour. Friday eastbound trips increased back to every 30 minutes on the Guelph branch during PM peak. New later eastbound trip. 

51/52/54: All trips now ending at 407 station. The 51 paper schedule shows service increased to every 15 minutes westbound only however the schedule finder says it is remaining at 30.

52: New 52D branch running express between Unionville GO and Hwy 407 Station during rush hours in the peak direction, every 30 minutes westbound during AM peak and every 60 minutes eastbound during PM peak. Increased to every 30 minutes during middays. Weekday service starts 1 hour earlier and ends 1 hour later eastbound and ends 2 hours later westbound. Weekend service  starts 2 hours earlier and ends 1 hour later.

61: New 61F branch running express from Gormley to Union, with 1 southbound trip leaving at 9am.

68: New 68C branch shown on the map running from King City GO to Barrie South GO, Allandale Waterfront GO and Barrie Term via 400, however no trips scheduled.

69: Discontinued with the exception of 2 southbound trips at 12:10p and 8:10p. 

90A: Now servicing the new Park & Ride at First & Front, and will no longer service Downtown Oshawa or Oshawa Centre. Unfortunately this means that service from Oshawa GO to downtown Oshawa will only be every 60 minutes in rush hour peak direction. 

91: Increased trips, and now servicing the new Park & Ride at Courtice & Baseline.

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https://bramptonist.com/recent-changes-on-kitchener-go-line-actually-mean-worse-service-for-brampton/ I got this in a text from a Brampton friend  of mine--he is screaming blue murder abou this. I'm not as familiar as I should be on this issue but it seems the article leaves out some points. But again, I'm not as familiar with this as some of you might be on this board.

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