GO Transit

[T3G]

Why do TTC and Metrolinx keep trying to out garbage each other?

If you gave the mandate of running and planning service to a bunch of high schoolers you'd have smoother operations and more well thought through decisions then the "professionals" keep coming up with.

[G.A]

Higher risk for injuries which will lead to possible lawsuits for those injuries. Metrolinx again did not think things through as always. 

[smallspy]

3 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit to require passengers arrive earlier for a train departure since the doors will close 1 minute prior to departure. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/go-train-new-departure-policy-1.6707291?fbclid=IwAR1gO-fqfzCS-s71kAowqx8ytr2WORSy_IcJeYEjELF8Q6mqndpTjrTR0q0

 

Final comments:

I can understand if you are at the beginning of the station or at Union Station during the PM peak period. Since the train is already on the platform usually 10 minutes prior to departure plus with large volumes of people waiting depending on starting point. If the train is running late, they will need to adjust so that people have time to reach the platform and in case a short train is operating. 

When going down further the line either boarding or disembarking at busier stations, time is lost of course with the longer dwell times. Seeing how the Barrie line times have been rejigged by a few minutes either at the start or end of the line to maintain consistent departure times. 

Union Station Bus Terminal, they do employ that you have to arrive about a minute prior to departure time. Once the doors get locked, they don't reopen them. Posting which Zone and gate to board the bus ahead of time. Reminds me of catching a flight and how airlines advise arriving 2 to 3 hours prior to departure and how the boarding gate closes 10 minutes prior to departure to ensure on-time departure. 

You should reread the notice - it is only applicable to the originating station of any train. Very, very few trains are scheduled for longer than 60 seconds at any intermediate stations, save for Union.

 

Of course if you only read Twitter or Reddit, you won't see the full notice and only see the army of wailers complaining about any change to their glorious existence.

 

Dan

[Gil]

9 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit to require passengers arrive earlier for a train departure since the doors will close 1 minute prior to departure. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/go-train-new-departure-policy-1.6707291?fbclid=IwAR1gO-fqfzCS-s71kAowqx8ytr2WORSy_IcJeYEjELF8Q6mqndpTjrTR0q0

 

Final comments:

I can understand if you are at the beginning of the station or at Union Station during the PM peak period. Since the train is already on the platform usually 10 minutes prior to departure plus with large volumes of people waiting depending on starting point. If the train is running late, they will need to adjust so that people have time to reach the platform and in case a short train is operating. 

When going down further the line either boarding or disembarking at busier stations, time is lost of course with the longer dwell times. Seeing how the Barrie line times have been rejigged by a few minutes either at the start or end of the line to maintain consistent departure times. 

Union Station Bus Terminal, they do employ that you have to arrive about a minute prior to departure time. Once the doors get locked, they don't reopen them. Posting which Zone and gate to board the bus ahead of time. Reminds me of catching a flight and how airlines advise arriving 2 to 3 hours prior to departure and how the boarding gate closes 10 minutes prior to departure to ensure on-time departure. 

Wouldn't an across the board schedule adjustment of 1 minute have met with less bad press?  You're going to have all of the connecting local agencies have to find out from their passengers that they need more time to get make their trains rather than being notified by GO/Metrolinx directly.  Exactly whose face was trying to be saved by this?  Or is this a sneaky way of implementing "dynamic" scheduling where the train is not as strictly bound to the printed timetables?

[Shaun]

7 hours ago, Gil said:

Wouldn't an across the board schedule adjustment of 1 minute have met with less bad press?  You're going to have all of the connecting local agencies have to find out from their passengers that they need more time to get make their trains rather than being notified by GO/Metrolinx directly.  Exactly whose face was trying to be saved by this?  Or is this a sneaky way of implementing "dynamic" scheduling where the train is not as strictly bound to the printed timetables?

But for 50 years the train ran fine without having to do this, so why now?

And by doing this are you not padding the schedule by 1 minute each time the train leaves the station? So by the 10th station it will be 10min of buffer?

[Ed T.]

14 hours ago, smallspy said:

You should reread the notice - it is only applicable to the originating station of any train. Very, very few trains are scheduled for longer than 60 seconds at any intermediate stations, save for Union.

Of course if you only read Twitter or Reddit, you won't see the full notice and only see the army of wailers complaining about any change to their glorious existence.

I like your optimism!

Of course this morning on CBC's Metro Morning, it was covered without mentioning "originating station". So, yes, for those who aren't up for digging into Metrolinx notices, it would seem to apply to every station.

Perhaps Metrolinx' PR boffins made it very clear that this was only for originating stations, and news outlets covering this didn't notice. Or maybe Metrolinx PR boffins don't know how effective PR works.

[ZümmyZüm]

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

But for 50 years the train ran fine without having to do this, so why now?

And by doing this are you not padding the schedule by 1 minute each time the train leaves the station? So by the 10th station it will be 10min of buffer?

Because nowadays people don’t respect the fact that if they missed the train, it’s on them. Far too often will people rush or try and pry doors open. By GO implementing this “doors closed 1 min prior” it gives them that 1 minute buffer to leave on time allowing for passengers rushing and forcing doors open to still happen but allows a on-time departure.

If they had moved the timepoints up a minute they’d have the same issues currently, just a minute earlier. 

[T3G]

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

And by doing this are you not padding the schedule by 1 minute each time the train leaves the station? So by the 10th station it will be 10min of buffer?

No, because a) as Dan indicated two posts above yours, it's only at the end stations, and b) the train is not going to leave 1 minute early, it's just going to close up 1 minute early.

Which means that if there are no people running, the train will just idle at the station for a minute doing nothing.

Having extensive experience in customer service, I get why people frown upon those who rush the doors and blame the agency for missing their train - 99 times out of 100 a client of a service encounters problems, it's through their own stupidity. However, this policy goes too far in the other direction. If the train is scheduled to leave at 6:00, there are zero valid reasons for entry not to be allowed at 5:59:30. Transit agencies have no business playing mind games with the general public.

[WoodbineSecondExit]

2 hours ago, T3G said:

No, because a) as Dan indicated two posts above yours, it's only at the end stations, and b) the train is not going to leave 1 minute early, it's just going to close up 1 minute early.

Which means that if there are no people running, the train will just idle at the station for a minute doing nothing.

Having extensive experience in customer service, I get why people frown upon those who rush the doors and blame the agency for missing their train - 99 times out of 100 a client of a service encounters problems, it's through their own stupidity. However, this policy goes too far in the other direction. If the train is scheduled to leave at 6:00, there are zero valid reasons for entry not to be allowed at 5:59:30. Transit agencies have no business playing mind games with the general public.

Seems like GO is learning from TTC management by planning on having vehicles idling and doing nothing.

[smallspy]

4 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I like your optimism!

Of course this morning on CBC's Metro Morning, it was covered without mentioning "originating station". So, yes, for those who aren't up for digging into Metrolinx notices, it would seem to apply to every station.

Perhaps Metrolinx' PR boffins made it very clear that this was only for originating stations, and news outlets covering this didn't notice. Or maybe Metrolinx PR boffins don't know how effective PR works.

The quietness of the fact that it's only at the originating stations is being done on purpose.

 

They want people to show up at the station before the train arrives, not to make a mad dash for it and thrust themselves headlong into the doors as they do today.

 

Of course, the fact that this is done with almost every other intercity railway system on the planet doesn't seem to have been noticed by the kvetchers.

 

Dan

[Ed T.]

1 hour ago, smallspy said:

The quietness of the fact that it's only at the originating stations is being done on purpose.

They want people to show up at the station before the train arrives, not to make a mad dash for it and thrust themselves headlong into the doors as they do today.

Of course, the fact that this is done with almost every other intercity railway system on the planet doesn't seem to have been noticed by the kvetchers.

Dan

 

Well, it will become obvious to any reasonably regular rider what's going on, and we're back to the same old same old. While not necessarily developing public opinion in Metrolinx' favour. I am skeptical that this will work out anything like what Metrolinx wants. But then, I'm an internet kvetcher, not a Metrolinx boffin.

 

[nfitz]

On 1/9/2023 at 12:47 AM, Gil said:

Wouldn't an across the board schedule adjustment of 1 minute have met with less bad press?  

Why? They've added padding, particularly at Union Station, more than once. Compare the recent Danforth to Exhibition times compared to historic times.

I don't remember any press about this, let alone bad press. What they are doing now got bad press. Simply padding another minute (yet again) wouldn't have gotten anything.

[Ed T.]

Last night there was a 22:20 express train to Port Credit and on to some other destinations.

I'm not sure if I'm searching wrong, but I don't see it on the Union to Port Credit schedule. Was it on due to the Raptors game?

The reason I am asking is because with the hourly local departures, catching a train to Long Branch means waiting to 10:45 PM, even if my event finishes at 10 PM.

If I knew there was going to be a 10:20 PM express to Port Credit, I would just drive there, park, and eat the extra fare to Union, as opposed to walking to Long Branch GO.

I did think about the possibility of catching a 23 Lakeshore bus from Port Credit GO to Long Branch, but that probably loses any time savings.

 

[Articulated]

16 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

Last night there was a 22:20 express train to Port Credit and on to some other destinations.

I'm not sure if I'm searching wrong, but I don't see it on the Union to Port Credit schedule. Was it on due to the Raptors game?

The reason I am asking is because with the hourly local departures, catching a train to Long Branch means waiting to 10:45 PM, even if my event finishes at 10 PM.

If I knew there was going to be a 10:20 PM express to Port Credit, I would just drive there, park, and eat the extra fare to Union, as opposed to walking to Long Branch GO.

I did think about the possibility of catching a 23 Lakeshore bus from Port Credit GO to Long Branch, but that probably loses any time savings.

 

The Raptors played a home game against Charlotte last night.

From what I've heard before, Metrolinx will often have a standby train(s?) available to run after major sporting events. However, they're not published in the schedules, as they are flexible in terms of when they depart, and dependent on passenger loads of course. If the game went into overtime, for example, a 22:20 departure may leave before the game is finished and before most attendees could make it out to the station.

[Ed T.]

Thanks, and, poop. It's too bad that Saturday evenings there's still half-hour service.

And if the King car would actually make it to Roncesvalles/Queen, I could try to catch a 501L on from there. Even if the 501L went down to Dufferin loop, that might work. But now it's hike up Dufferin to Queen and hope there's a bus coming (as opposed to resting out by Long Branch).

[nfitz]

4 hours ago, Articulated said:

The Raptors played a home game against Charlotte last night.

From what I've heard before, Metrolinx will often have a standby train(s?) available to run after major sporting events. However, they're not published in the schedules, as they are flexible in terms of when they depart, and dependent on passenger loads of course. 

They definitely do have extra trains running for such events on Lakeshore West and East. They normally appear in the online tracker a few minutes before they depart. More often than not, they aren't express, and they try and schedule them about 15 minutes before/after the other trains. But they have been known to run some as express (or convert the local to an express, if the extra is just behind).

Even when I'm attending an event, it's a bit hit or miss. I've left a game at the end, got on my train, and they've only announced the following extra after I've boarded!

It's all very hit and miss - though I noticed over the last (TFC) season, they became much more adept at getting the extras in place at the right time!

[Ed T.]

I guess I only noticed "Lakeshore West" on the monitors and tapped and went upstairs. Then I got a little suspicious and indeed it was an express to Port Credit and then local to maybe Burlington. I didn't pay much attention beyond the express bit.

[blue.bird.fan]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:59 AM, ZümmyZüm said:

Because nowadays people don’t respect the fact that if they missed the train, it’s on them. Far too often will people rush or try and pry doors open. By GO implementing this “doors closed 1 min prior” it gives them that 1 minute buffer to leave on time allowing for passengers rushing and forcing doors open to still happen but allows a on-time departure.

If they had moved the timepoints up a minute they’d have the same issues currently, just a minute earlier. 

I know my reply is a bit late. When I was at Union Station, I decided to take the GO train to Danforth instead of the subway, because, why not. There were employees with large signs advertising the 1-minute prior closure, and it was a bit funny to be honest.

[Gil]

With GO's service extension to London a little over a year old have they figured out what their next steps are toward growing the service if they intend to keep it?  It's a bit of an open-ended pilot project implemented when a lot of people were still working from home.  The London extension has yet to make it onto GO's system map.  Perhaps once it's included covered by PRESTO?  I know Western students are hoping for additional service, even if it's bus service to supplement the one peak trip in each direction by train.

Therein lies my question, if GO intends to expand further outside of the Greater Golden Horseshoe, it should probably do so from a hub like Kitchener/Waterloo rather than extend service further on existing routes.  There are a few places like St. Thomas where local/inter-municipal transit hasn't reached it yet and would be a likely candidate for GO Bus service of some sort.  Other routes that do exist (under the umbrella of Southwest Community Transit) could probably benefit from having supplemental service from GO Transit.  Barrie, Guelph (?), Orangeville and Peterborough would also make logical hubs.  The latter two would have to rely on connecting bus and train trips for anyone heading into Toronto.  Service into Northumberland County is being looked at in conjunction with the Lakeshore East line being extended to Bowmanville.

I brought it up here earlier, but given the current pool of GO bus route numbers can't accommodate these new services, putting them in the 100s to signify they don't enter the GTHA (with the possible exception of routes connecting to Hamilton and Bowmanville) makes the most sense.  A lot of these would likely start off as weekday-only routes that could hopefully grow with ridership demand.  I'm thinking like Lindsay, Collingwood, Orillia, Shelburne/Alliston, Woodstock/Ingersoll and Cobourg/Port Hope.  Owen Sound and Goderich seem a bit of a stretch in terms of reach but it would be ideal before considering other places like Belleville, Kingston, Sarnia or Windsor.

[Doppelkupplung]

Nice to see this bad boy still running. Been seeing 2449 around my area too. 

[Doppelkupplung]

Anyone know if GO has "performance" mode enabled on the Allison 'boxes? There's been a few instances where I've been riding the MCI 2554+ units (that had the updated shift schedule when they were new) and the operator was really getting the motor up in the RPMs, even at low speed. Just curious, because I know those 2554+s will go through the gears as fast as they can, even at full throttle and keep the RPMs super low. I guess this can be done by using the "manual" mode but that seems tedious... ?

[Shaun]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:41 PM, Gil said:

With GO's service extension to London a little over a year old have they figured out what their next steps are toward growing the service if they intend to keep it?  It's a bit of an open-ended pilot project implemented when a lot of people were still working from home.  The London extension has yet to make it onto GO's system map.  Perhaps once it's included covered by PRESTO?  I know Western students are hoping for additional service, even if it's bus service to supplement the one peak trip in each direction by train.

Therein lies my question, if GO intends to expand further outside of the Greater Golden Horseshoe, it should probably do so from a hub like Kitchener/Waterloo rather than extend service further on existing routes.  There are a few places like St. Thomas where local/inter-municipal transit hasn't reached it yet and would be a likely candidate for GO Bus service of some sort.  Other routes that do exist (under the umbrella of Southwest Community Transit) could probably benefit from having supplemental service from GO Transit.  Barrie, Guelph (?), Orangeville and Peterborough would also make logical hubs.  The latter two would have to rely on connecting bus and train trips for anyone heading into Toronto.  Service into Northumberland County is being looked at in conjunction with the Lakeshore East line being extended to Bowmanville.

I brought it up here earlier, but given the current pool of GO bus route numbers can't accommodate these new services, putting them in the 100s to signify they don't enter the GTHA (with the possible exception of routes connecting to Hamilton and Bowmanville) makes the most sense.  A lot of these would likely start off as weekday-only routes that could hopefully grow with ridership demand.  I'm thinking like Lindsay, Collingwood, Orillia, Shelburne/Alliston, Woodstock/Ingersoll and Cobourg/Port Hope.  Owen Sound and Goderich seem a bit of a stretch in terms of reach but it would be ideal before considering other places like Belleville, Kingston, Sarnia or Windsor.

Those routes belong to ONR they are better suited.

[Gil]

On 2/12/2023 at 7:11 PM, Shaun said:

Those routes belong to ONR they are better suited.

ONR for likely Orillia.  Collingwood and Lindsay might be a bit of a stretch.  Even if these were seasonal routes, those two seem like the next logical expansion northward.  Orillia might be able to get by with ONR, but I'm sure GO could supplement the Linx service as right now people have to get from downtown to Georgian College to catch Linx to Orillia.  Limited DRT connections to both Orillia and Lindsay were lost during the pandemic, so reconnecting them might happen sooner with GO than with DRT.

Some sort of bus service connecting Kitchener-Waterloo and London might be appreciated.  The current coach services between the two don't all stop at the same location in KW, meaning while there are options, they may not be convenient.  Aside from the ones that serve Pearson, none really connect to the GO network, which sucks if you're coming from say Mississauga, Brampton, Milton or Guelph and trying to get to London means having to backtrack to Union to catch them.  A transfer in KW from the more regular service to the GTA might help build the train ridership out to London.

[Ed T.]

I am not a super frequent rider of GO but what I have seen as recently as yesterday puzzles me.

1. Last night's 18:15 Lakeshore West out of Union was ten cars. Lakeshore has been running 12 car trains for a while now, and other LS trains seemed to be 12, the one I caught eastbound was (or I would have been running!). I don't see why this one train would have been 10 cars?
2. I imagine that GO has a nice supply of new cab cars. Yet last night, 253 and 255 were both cab cars, into the evening. Why would they be running these seemingly older cab cars? (To go with the handmedown 7900s serving Mimico and Long Branch, no doubt!)
3. After all the hoo-haw about "doors close one minute before departure", I haven't really experienced that. At Union, the doors close, and after a fairly short pause the trains start creeping out of the station. There's no obvious new pause. It just seems that the departure times have been moved up, so instead of leaving on the :45, they leave on the :43.
4. Half hour service is back for weekday evenings. I wish they had announced that a bit more explicitly instead of making us root through the schedules (which I find harder to access and read than in the old days). This does answer another of my questions--or rather makes it moot--why there was half-hour service on Saturday evenings (and I guess Sunday as well), but not weekdays.

[CJ.]

12 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I am not a super frequent rider of GO but what I have seen as recently as yesterday puzzles me.

1. I imagine that GO has a nice supply of new cab cars. Yet last night, 253 and 255 were both cab cars, into the evening. Why would they be running these seemingly older cab cars? (To go with the handmedown 7900s serving Mimico and Long Branch, no doubt!)

At one point, I remember they were all being phased into regular commuter cars. This was around I think 3 or 4 years ago, and they also became practically rare as cab cars for the next few years, but I have been noticing that they are a lot more common now as well

At the union yard I have seen a lot of detached bi-level cab cars throughout december, so most likely a maintenance thing

And I still see F59PH locos in regular service, despite them scheduled to retire at least 6-7 years ago...so these older cab cars are the least of the worries they should have right now