GO Transit

[John Oke]

As well, iirc before Covid, they would cancel trains due to “staff shortages” on Friday’s, usually on a long weekend in the summer because the staff would call in “sick”

[smallspy]

4 hours ago, Gil said:

Do they have enough crew on the weekend (with the other lines not running) to increase service at least between Union and Port Credit when western bus service gets re routed there? 

No.

 

Dan

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

On 8/30/2022 at 10:12 PM, Wayside Observer said:

I'm not surprised.  I read the article and the comments below and several people are totally right about Saturday.  It was a nightmare.  The Gardiner was jammed.  Lakeshore was jammed with a de-facto loss of a lane due to the right line being the unofficially designated Uber pickup/dropoff lane.  All of downtown was jammed.  My normal 1 hour-ish door to door commute to work took 3.5 hours including finding an alternate place to park.  For that amount of time, if I had gone the other way, I could've driven to work in Windsor including a civilized pit stop at one of the On Routes on the 401 instead of riding the brake pedal and trying to figure out where the closest washroom to the parking lot I was trying to get to was going to be.

I hate to say it but Go Transit was right to kibosh running buses into downtown.  They'd have all driven right smack into total gridlock and gotten stuck eventually leaving no service running.

A lot of concerts, conventions, matches and (most importantly) the CNE's return has led to more gridlock/congestion! Speaking of the CNE - it's too early to tell when the Labour Day weekend service for certain GO Train lines will be back. I remembered when GO ran extra GO Train service to serve the CNE on the Milton, Stouffvile and Kitchener (but not serving Kitchener GO but Georgetown GO) lines. Barrie passengers can connect with the connecting GO trains at Union that will take then to Exhibition GO.

In the event if there were more cancellations cancellations to the GO Train trips, I'm planning to seek an alternate route - either using the TTC or (worse) getting an Uber/Lyft/Taxi ride home (the latter, the taxi that is - will take me to an alternate place that will connect a TTC or GO station).

[2822]

If anything on weekends maybe Go should run routes 21 and 31 to Kipling Terminal. Also 16 should not run at all as traffic is unpredictable on any weekend.  

[Kelvin3157]

13 hours ago, Gil said:

Question about GO Transit policy (are they listed online somewhere?): there's a driver I get on weekend mornings who always makes an announcement before getting onto the highway that GO has a no eating or drinking policy on any of their vehicles or facilities.  I've never heard this mentioned anywhere else and some stations sell food which would be a contravention of that policy unless it was stated you couldn't consume your purchase. 

I've seen the fare enforcement officers walk past people eating but will point out people who have their feet on the seats.  Is this actually one of GO's policies or bylaws or is the driver just trying to keep his bus clean by scaring passengers into compliance? 

(I do have a recording of his announcement but it's too big to attach here)

https://www.gotransit.com/en/about-us/benefits-of-taking

[DavidH]

13 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

https://www.gotransit.com/en/about-us/benefits-of-taking

Also GO’s bylaw 2, which is the authoritative source, does not mention food or eating.

 

 

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

At last, I took this photo of one of GO Transit's double decker bus that appeared at the CNE in Toronto, Canada. It's wrapped for the mentioned destinations that you can go for the weekend passes. 

Fleet number is 8384. By the way, please feel free to use this for one of the in-house wikis.

[GTAmissions1]

3 minutes ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

At last, I took this photo of one of GO Transit's double decker bus that appeared at the CNE in Toronto, Canada. It's wrapped for the mentioned destinations that you can go for the weekend passes. 

Fleet number is 8384. By the way, please feel free to use this for one of the in-house wikis.

This is one way of marketing. Especially since $10 for one day or $15 for two days, three if a long weekend to go anywhere on the Go Transit network is a pretty good value. Just as long as you have a smartphone that is fully charged up along with mobile data. 

I remember when weekend trains were first piloted in Summer 2012 with only two trips to Toronto from Barrie and back. With additional trips between East Gwillimbury and Union Station with a connecting bus. Where as now, they have increased the frequency of weekend trains along Barrie to be more consistent between the full trips and shorter trips with a connecting bus to continue the full route. 

Some people plan for a whole day in another city where as others simply head down for an hour or two and head back home. 

[T3G]

I ended up being burned by the 21 diversion to Port Credit this afternoon. The less charitable of you reading this story could say I did this to myself by not checking the service advisories before I went out, which is fair, but on the other hand, I shouldn't need to check a website to know about what diversion my bus is taking.

I took the 21B into Toronto and everything was going routine until the bus turned from the 401 onto the 403. I had no idea something was off; TransSee was showing all the buses were bound for Union, the sign said the bus was bound for Union, everything seemed a-ok. I've just come back from a 3 week holiday in Europe and I wondered if maybe in my absence Metrolinx had rerouted the 21B to Square One to provide a connection between there and Milton; while such a connection should of course exist, dragging the 21B off course for it would be a terrible idea and so on brand for Metrolinx. The bus doesn't turn into Square One and keeps going south. Getting up to ask the driver where tf we're actually going wasn't on the table as I was sat next to a sleeping passenger, but the closer we got to the lake the more baffled I became. Finally, the bus turned into Port Credit and the driver says we can catch the train into the city from there.

The fact that there was zero indication on the sign, no announcements from the driver or the robot lady living in the bus' attic is genuinely ludicrous. Apparently, the TTC doesn't show rerouted routes on their destination signs because they're afraid passengers will think it's a short turn and wait for the next bus to the correct destination which will never come. I assume GO has the same, or a similar, reason for doing this, but in all circumstances the fact that they can get away with this lack of information is absolutely astounding to me. The gold standard for diversion signage is in Brno, Czechia; I mocked up this display in their style back in 2016 when I was criticizing the TTC for doing just this very thing when Exhibition Loop was closed to streetcars, and they were short turning at Fleet (Lighthouse) Loop. The sign indicates where the vehicle is going, as well as quickly showing that the intended destination of the service can be accessed via a bus connection. Internal announcements could be used to explain just why exactly this is happening. Every major city of the world I've travelled to uses the destination signs to indicate in some way that the vehicle is going somewhere else or doing something differently; why, oh, why does Toronto always have to deviate from the norm?

On the way back the bus used the QEW and Erin Mills Parkway, leaving out the stops north of Millcreek Drive. I have no idea what the plan is for anyone who needed to get there. All in all a complete shambles. And never mind me, what if it's an old person with issues using the internet that got caught up in all this confusion? If the TTC and Metrolinx devoted a fraction of the time to wayfinding and communication that they devote to branding and other pointless wastes of time, we'd be a lot better off than we are currently.

As an aside, the SuperLo double deckers are probably the worst transit vehicle I have ever ridden. The soundproofing in the interior is virtually non existent (a plane is quieter), there is zero padding in the flip up seats for wheelchairs, and every bump is absolutely BONE SHATTERING. I'm old enough to remember the Fishbowls, and at their very worst were never as bad as the double deckers. And those were 30 year old buses; what excuse do these much newer things have?

[GTAmissions1]

53 minutes ago, T3G said:

I ended up being burned by the 21 diversion to Port Credit this afternoon. The less charitable of you reading this story could say I did this to myself by not checking the service advisories before I went out, which is fair, but on the other hand, I shouldn't need to check a website to know about what diversion my bus is taking.

I took the 21B into Toronto and everything was going routine until the bus turned from the 401 onto the 403. I had no idea something was off; TransSee was showing all the buses were bound for Union, the sign said the bus was bound for Union, everything seemed a-ok. I've just come back from a 3 week holiday in Europe and I wondered if maybe in my absence Metrolinx had rerouted the 21B to Square One to provide a connection between there and Milton; while such a connection should of course exist, dragging the 21B off course for it would be a terrible idea and so on brand for Metrolinx. The bus doesn't turn into Square One and keeps going south. Getting up to ask the driver where tf we're actually going wasn't on the table as I was sat next to a sleeping passenger, but the closer we got to the lake the more baffled I became. Finally, the bus turned into Port Credit and the driver says we can catch the train into the city from there.

The fact that there was zero indication on the sign, no announcements from the driver or the robot lady living in the bus' attic is genuinely ludicrous. Apparently, the TTC doesn't show rerouted routes on their destination signs because they're afraid passengers will think it's a short turn and wait for the next bus to the correct destination which will never come. I assume GO has the same, or a similar, reason for doing this, but in all circumstances the fact that they can get away with this lack of information is absolutely astounding to me. The gold standard for diversion signage is in Brno, Czechia; I mocked up this display in their style back in 2016 when I was criticizing the TTC for doing just this very thing when Exhibition Loop was closed to streetcars, and they were short turning at Fleet (Lighthouse) Loop. The sign indicates where the vehicle is going, as well as quickly showing that the intended destination of the service can be accessed via a bus connection. Internal announcements could be used to explain just why exactly this is happening. Every major city of the world I've travelled to uses the destination signs to indicate in some way that the vehicle is going somewhere else or doing something differently; why, oh, why does Toronto always have to deviate from the norm?

On the way back the bus used the QEW and Erin Mills Parkway, leaving out the stops north of Millcreek Drive. I have no idea what the plan is for anyone who needed to get there. All in all a complete shambles. And never mind me, what if it's an old person with issues using the internet that got caught up in all this confusion? If the TTC and Metrolinx devoted a fraction of the time to wayfinding and communication that they devote to branding and other pointless wastes of time, we'd be a lot better off than we are currently.

As an aside, the SuperLo double deckers are probably the worst transit vehicle I have ever ridden. The soundproofing in the interior is virtually non existent (a plane is quieter), there is zero padding in the flip up seats for wheelchairs, and every bump is absolutely BONE SHATTERING. I'm old enough to remember the Fishbowls, and at their very worst were never as bad as the double deckers. And those were 30 year old buses; what excuse do these much newer things have?

Go Transit detours buses IF there are problems accessing Union Station Bus Terminal. Route 21 and 31 were detoured to Port Credit Go Station to connect with the Lakeshore West trains connecting to Union Station. Today, tomorrow and possibly Labour Day. 

Route 16 Hamilton Express terminates at Aldershot Go. It was previously Port Credit Go, but I guess it was more efficient to pretty much turn it into an 18 which provides similar service between Hamilton Go and Aldershot Go Station.

Usually, if the bus is on detour, the operator would ask where you are going or make an announcement. I know the last time when I took a similar detour (68D re-routed to Highway 407 Terminal), the operator would ask every single passenger if they wanted Union, they would have to transfer to the subway when the bus terminates at 407 Terminal. Showing Go Transit e-ticket or a Presto card to continue on TTC via Line 1. This is along with making another announcement closer to the terminus.

Go Transit also cancelled train trips on Barrie and Stouvfille which most people may not read the departure sign, check online or subscribe to service alerts via text message. Especially if it shows from Union to the terminus station or vice versa, someone may not be aware that train isn't coming. 

I can understand your frustrations especially with how it can be difficult to plan around some detours. 

[nfitz]

7 hours ago, T3G said:

Apparently, the TTC doesn't show rerouted routes on their destination signs because they're afraid passengers will think it's a short turn and wait for the next bus to the correct destination which will never come.

The detour-on-route sign has been used for years on the buses. The streetcars tell you every stop that "this is an off-route vehicle". Scheduled short-turns are signed when leaving the terminal (even if the short-turn location is only a handful of stops from the terminus). Normally, as soon as a TTC vehicle leaves it's scheduled route, there is an announcement, and at least an attempt at an explantion.

Where have you seen TTC not showing rerouted routes?

[T3G]

As noted, this was what happened when the Exhibition loop was closed. CLRVs and Flexitys both continued dutifully showing that they were going to Exhibition. When I inquired on here as to why the streetcars didn't indicate that they were short turning at the Fleet loop (there is an exposure for it on even the CLRV signs, Lake Shore & Bathurst), that was the reasoning I was given for it. I had forgotten all about this absurd convention since then as I haven't chased down many vehicles on diversion in the years subsequent, but the lack of information GO provided just reminded me all over again. I can only assume they had a similar reason for doing so, even if it appears the TTC's signage seems to have gotten better of late.

[Shaun]

13 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Go Transit detours buses IF there are problems accessing Union Station Bus Terminal. Route 21 and 31 were detoured to Port Credit Go Station to connect with the Lakeshore West trains connecting to Union Station. Today, tomorrow and possibly Labour Day. 

Route 16 Hamilton Express terminates at Aldershot Go. It was previously Port Credit Go, but I guess it was more efficient to pretty much turn it into an 18 which provides similar service between Hamilton Go and Aldershot Go Station.

Usually, if the bus is on detour, the operator would ask where you are going or make an announcement. I know the last time when I took a similar detour (68D re-routed to Highway 407 Terminal), the operator would ask every single passenger if they wanted Union, they would have to transfer to the subway when the bus terminates at 407 Terminal. Showing Go Transit e-ticket or a Presto card to continue on TTC via Line 1. This is along with making another announcement closer to the terminus.

Go Transit also cancelled train trips on Barrie and Stouvfille which most people may not read the departure sign, check online or subscribe to service alerts via text message. Especially if it shows from Union to the terminus station or vice versa, someone may not be aware that train isn't coming. 

I can understand your frustrations especially with how it can be difficult to plan around some detours. 

This crew shortage is a huge problem. 

[Doppelkupplung]

18 hours ago, T3G said:

As an aside, the SuperLo double deckers are probably the worst transit vehicle I have ever ridden. The soundproofing in the interior is virtually non existent (a plane is quieter), there is zero padding in the flip up seats for wheelchairs, and every bump is absolutely BONE SHATTERING. I'm old enough to remember the Fishbowls, and at their very worst were never as bad as the double deckers. And those were 30 year old buses; what excuse do these much newer things have?

Yeah, downstairs its actually really bad; I'm surprised more people don't complain about it. Its like the sound is coming through the walls. Back when I was a regular on the 19/C, I would notice my regular op wearing earplugs whenever he had a SuperLo. I'm pretty sure its due to resonance, which could be amplified by the big (normally) empty luggage space between the cabin and motor (nothing to dampen the sound vibrations). I reserve the right to be wrong though lol. Also don't forget, the SuperLos ride on superLo (ha) profile tires. I think my dad's old Acura has more sidewall than a superLo. 

Up top, its much more comfortable. However, all this is relative, because on a comfort scale, they are several pegs down from an MCI. 

This is not to ignore with the rest of what you wrote. As I mentioned earlier, the very reality that the buses can't make it to USBT due to heavy car traffic is absurd. Given the obvious set of priorities that governments have here re. public transport vs. private cars, it comes as no surprise to me that there would be horrible detour communication. 

[nfitz]

7 hours ago, T3G said:

As noted, this was what happened when the Exhibition loop was closed. CLRVs and Flexitys both continued dutifully showing that they were going to Exhibition. 

That's not rerouted though ... the route stopped 2-3 stops early, within walking distance. And more the exception than the rule.
 

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Yeah, downstairs its actually really bad; I'm surprised more people don't complain about it. Its like the sound is coming through the walls. Back when I was a regular on the 19/C, I would notice my regular op wearing earplugs whenever he had a SuperLo. I'm pretty sure its due to resonance, which could be amplified by the big (normally) empty luggage space between the cabin and motor (nothing to dampen the sound vibrations). I reserve the right to be wrong though lol. Also don't forget, the SuperLos ride on superLo (ha) profile tires. I think my dad's old Acura has more sidewall than a superLo. 

Up top, its much more comfortable. However, all this is relative, because on a comfort scale, they are several pegs down from an MCI. 

This is not to ignore with the rest of what you wrote. As I mentioned earlier, the very reality that the buses can't make it to USBT due to heavy car traffic is absurd. Given the obvious set of priorities that governments have here re. public transport vs. private cars, it comes as no surprise to me that there would be horrible detour communication. 

I think the baggage area is carpeted, which should make it better. Since the luggage compartment is hardly ever used it would make sense to have additional seating to the back like they do in Ottawa and have one luggage rack on the lower floor. I dont know if the airport bus ever uses the luggage compartment but I have personally never seen it being used.

[T3G]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

That's not rerouted though ... the route stopped 2-3 stops early, within walking distance. And more the exception than the rule.
 

It may have been within walking distance, but that didn't stop the TTC from running shuttle buses (as they ought to have done).

https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Toronto_Transit_Commission_route_509_'Harbourfront'

I wager most people who see that their vehicle is going to Exhibition expect it to actually take them all the way to Exhibition. Any number of things can go wrong with this approach (even more so on the Flexity where the driver is not readily accessible to the public); person who didn't read an online notice, faulty PA system, garbled announcement, and you get out at Fleet loop at 9 pm and wonder where exactly you are and how to get to your destination of choice. There's not a lot that could be done with the CLRVs but I gave a handy example above how it could be handled on all vehicles with digital destination signs.

I'm not sure it's that uncommon, either. When the 501 was shut down west of Sunnyside in 2017-18, every single streetcar I photographed continued displaying 501 Long Branch. What do the shortened 501s running to Dufferin say now? If it's Dufferin, that would be shocking.

As for the distinction between rerouted and short turned, that's splitting hairs. "Port Credit GO / (Train symbol) -> Union Station" would have been infinitely clearer and more helpful.

[Orion V]

For the GO weekend pass, if I were to go to Hamilton, does it matter if I pick Hamilton GO Stn or West Harbour GO Stn for the destination?
If I intend to take one trip on GO 16 bus then one trip on GO Lakeshore West train.

[Chris W]

23 minutes ago, Orion V said:

For the GO weekend pass, if I were to go to Hamilton, does it matter if I pick Hamilton GO Stn or West Harbour GO Stn for the destination?
If I intend to take one trip on GO 16 bus then one trip on GO Lakeshore West train.

I believe you can use both stations as they're in the same zone, per my understanding.

[GTAmissions1]

37 minutes ago, Chris W said:

I believe you can use both stations as they're in the same zone, per my understanding.

Correct. Double checking the Lakeshore West schedule and Hamilton Go and West Harbour Go are indeed classified under the same fare zone. 

[TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:19 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

I'm pretty sure the ISM powered 2400s are almost all gone. Never see them around anymore, save for the odd unit and the Vaxbuses. TOK has a few now, and I'm sure others have found second lives. That leaves about 167ish MCIs in the fleet. 

I'm curious to see if they'll order more MCIs. I know they will always need some, but I feel like the SuperLos will really cap the MCIs to limited quantities. 

2400 MCIs are running here in Hamilton, and I was told a lot of them are being phased back into rotation now, hence why I havent been able to buy any yet. None of hit any auctions this year.

 

Anyone know how to insure a 45ft MCI for personal use? I am buying one next week but dont want to pay for a commercial policy before I put the bus into revenue service.

[TC60102N]

8 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

Angone know how to insure a 45ft MCI for personal use? I am buying one next week but dont want to pay for a commercial policy before I put the bus into revenue service.

I have mine attached to my automobile policy, the insurance company was actually pretty good about adding it on for personal use.

 

I'm just now allowed to carry more than 12 people or collect a fare.

[Doppelkupplung]

Actually I have a semi-relevant question- could you technically drive an MCI with a DZ, provided that you had no passengers? Or is it automatically a mandatory B/CZ? 

9 hours ago, TRENT_TRANSIT_SYSTEM said:

2400 MCIs are running here in Hamilton, and I was told a lot of them are being phased back into rotation now, hence why I havent been able to buy any yet. None of hit any auctions this year.

I was referring to the ISM 2400s. The S60s and X15 2400s still look to be going strong, but I haven't seen anything sub-2450 for over a year now, save for the vaxxbuses like I mentioned. I've even seen videos of people doing RV conversions on them, so I'm almost certain that they're gone. 

I'd love to be proven wrong though, they're my favorite MCIs by a country mile.  

[Joshuamumble]

9 hours ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Actually I have a semi-relevant question- could you technically drive an MCI with a DZ, provided that you had no passengers? Or is it automatically a mandatory B/CZ? 

I was referring to the ISM 2400s. The S60s and X15 2400s still look to be going strong, but I haven't seen anything sub-2450 for over a year now, save for the vaxxbuses like I mentioned. I've even seen videos of people doing RV conversions on them, so I'm almost certain that they're gone. 

I'd love to be proven wrong though, they're my favorite MCIs by a country mile.  

2432 is still in active service, I tracked it on the 19 just now (only ISM unit left in service)

[Shaun]

11 hours ago, Doppelkupplung said:

Actually I have a semi-relevant question- could you technically drive an MCI with a DZ, provided that you had no passengers? Or is it automatically a mandatory B/CZ? 

I was referring to the ISM 2400s. The S60s and X15 2400s still look to be going strong, but I haven't seen anything sub-2450 for over a year now, save for the vaxxbuses like I mentioned. I've even seen videos of people doing RV conversions on them, so I'm almost certain that they're gone. 

I'd love to be proven wrong though, they're my favorite MCIs by a country mile.  

On the other hand, a DZ license is required to drive a motor vehicle with usually weighs over 11,000 kg (24,000lbs), or a combination of a vehicle with the same weight towing a trailer which is less than 4,600 kg (10,000lbs). As soon as the weight of the towing vehicle increasing more than 4,600 kg, the driver needs to have a full Class or restricted Class A license.

It doesn't say anything about passengers.