GO Transit

[John Oke]

17 minutes ago, Genius101 said:

With 6 car trains operating, F59 locomotives are back for all day service on the Lakeshore East and West lines. 

Now I want to go spot one at the Henry Street Overpass beside Whitby Station

[Megabus Rider]

The new Union Station Bus Terminal is complete! Go Transit is just testing the terminal roadways with their buses. It is expected that Greyhound Canada, Coach Canada's Megabus and Ontario Northland are to move into this new Terminal.

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/06/10/first-go-buses-enter-union-station-bus-terminal-as-part-of-testing-see-the-images-here/

[Doppelkupplung]

51 minutes ago, Megabus Rider said:

The new Union Station Bus Terminal is complete! Go Transit is just testing the terminal roadways with their buses. It is expected that Greyhound Canada, Coach Canada's Megabus and Ontario Northland are to move into this new Terminal.

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/06/10/first-go-buses-enter-union-station-bus-terminal-as-part-of-testing-see-the-images-here/

Yehey! I almost forgot about this. I wonder if we'll start seeing Go-Anywhere units downtown now...

[GTAmissions1]

3 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

The new Union Station Bus Terminal is complete! Go Transit is just testing the terminal roadways with their buses. It is expected that Greyhound Canada, Coach Canada's Megabus and Ontario Northland are to move into this new Terminal.

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/06/10/first-go-buses-enter-union-station-bus-terminal-as-part-of-testing-see-the-images-here/

It is going to be nice streamlining all intercity bus services (Go Transit, Greyhound, Megabus and Ontario Northland) in one place. Especially if attending an event at Scotiabank Arena or Rogers Centre, it is within walking distance. I have been to the Toronto Coach Terminal and it definitely has outlived the purpose.

Really looking forward to when the new Union Station Bus Terminal opens. More modern and weather protected. 

[smallspy]

17 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

The new Union Station Bus Terminal is complete! Go Transit is just testing the terminal roadways with their buses. It is expected that Greyhound Canada, Coach Canada's Megabus and Ontario Northland are to move into this new Terminal.

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2020/06/10/first-go-buses-enter-union-station-bus-terminal-as-part-of-testing-see-the-images-here/

There is a hell of a lot more to do than just testing. Although to their credit, the opening of the facility is now in sight.

 

I'm not sure who you have been talking to, but there is no indication at this point that any of those agencies will be moving from the Toronto Coach Terminal anytime soon.

 

Dan

[Megabus Rider]

5 hours ago, smallspy said:

There is a hell of a lot more to do than just testing. Although to their credit, the opening of the facility is now in sight.

 

I'm not sure who you have been talking to, but there is no indication at this point that any of those agencies will be moving from the Toronto Coach Terminal anytime soon.

 

Dan

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/April_20/Reports/8_TCTI_Lease_Disposition.pdf

It seems even the TTC expects the Terminal to be vacated

[ZümmyZüm]

It only makes sense for them to switch terminals once completed, 610 Bay is in horrible shape in a customer service view. By closing 610 bay they can move operations to the USBT or even Yorkdale terminal which receives some trips currently and 407GO. The only factors I can see where they would not move in is either leasing spots ( is there even enough, how much for the spots ) and if the agencies even want to go in, MegaBus is known for curb side pickups even in large cities like Montreal and New York, Ontario Northland would likely save a lot of money starting and ending at 407GO and Greyhounds future is as always, undetermined 

[Gil]

2 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

It only makes sense for them to switch terminals once completed, 610 Bay is in horrible shape in a customer service view. By closing 610 bay they can move operations to the USBT or even Yorkdale terminal which receives some trips currently and 407GO. The only factors I can see where they would not move in is either leasing spots ( is there even enough, how much for the spots ) and if the agencies even want to go in, MegaBus is known for curb side pickups even in large cities like Montreal and New York, Ontario Northland would likely save a lot of money starting and ending at 407GO and Greyhounds future is as always, undetermined 

If MegaBus did wind up serving the Hwy. 407 station it would give them an excuse to also serve Pearson, at the expense of any passengers who would prefer a downtown stop.  I know the idea was to try and consolidate the downtown bus terminals into one location, but 14 bays between GO and the intercity companies seems a bit tight at the onset.  All Day-Two Way service on the other rail lines was supposed to cut down on the need for GO buses.  Even if they were to split the levels by provider with GO on one level and intercity on another, 7 bays (assuming it's an even split, I've seen the details but don't recall them right now) is less than what the existing Coach Terminal has.

At the risk of seguing this topic, where would MegaBus even be able to stop curbside downtown if they didn't want to use the new bus terminal?

[Shaun]

51 minutes ago, Gil said:

If MegaBus did wind up serving the Hwy. 407 station it would give them an excuse to also serve Pearson, at the expense of any passengers who would prefer a downtown stop.  I know the idea was to try and consolidate the downtown bus terminals into one location, but 14 bays between GO and the intercity companies seems a bit tight at the onset.  All Day-Two Way service on the other rail lines was supposed to cut down on the need for GO buses.  Even if they were to split the levels by provider with GO on one level and intercity on another, 7 bays (assuming it's an even split, I've seen the details but don't recall them right now) is less than what the existing Coach Terminal has.

At the risk of seguing this topic, where would MegaBus even be able to stop curbside downtown if they didn't want to use the new bus terminal?

Infront of the Royal York is a good spot. Or at one of the subway stations along University Ave. 

I'm sure some hotels would allow them to pickup at the street including the Holiday Inn on Dundas.  

But using Yorkdale as a northern terminal would make sense but I dont think Vanhools can fit in the terminal.

Highway 407 station is a bit far north for Kingston runs.  

[John Oke]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

Highway 407 station is a bit far north for Kingston runs.  

They could take the 407 to the 404, 412, 418 or even 135 south to the 401 if they wanted, but the tolls might be a deterrence. 

[Gil]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

Infront of the Royal York is a good spot. Or at one of the subway stations along University Ave. 

I'm sure some hotels would allow them to pickup at the street including the Holiday Inn on Dundas.  

But using Yorkdale as a northern terminal would make sense but I dont think Vanhools can fit in the terminal.

Highway 407 station is a bit far north for Kingston runs.  

I assume you mean the entrance on York St. at the Royal York?  Pre-pandemic that was already a busy spot with the various shuttle and tour buses along with the taxis.  There's already a lot of traffic on Front St. and I think they wouldn't take too kindly to having the buses at their front door as I doubt the two clientele have much in common.  As for stopping on the street, the few places I've seen that have laybys for motorcoaches (usually tour buses from out of town and not the sightseeing buses) are also used by people picking up a coffee or making deliveries which puts them at a premium.  Given the City's desire to have streets free-flowing especially during rush hour, I don't see them readily allowing MegaBus to serve on street stops for the extended amount of time required to get everyone on and off the buses considering Toronto is a terminus stop.

Even if Ontario Northland went to serving the Hwy. 407 station that still leaves a lot of other intercity traffic at the new bus terminal.  Greyhound's remaining service include Ottawa, London and points west and I believe its codeshare (I don't know if that aviation term can be applied to buses) service to NYC via other carriers like Adirondck Trailways serving cities between Niagara and Toronto.  There are also tour operators departing from the current Coach Terminal, will they be accommodated at the new bus terminal assuming things ever go back to normal?

The new Kipling station is also supposed to bring in 3 GO Transit routes.  No word on which ones, but I'm guessing possibly a branch of the 21 MILTON and the 29 GUELPH-MISSISSAUGA which used to run to Cooksville.  One of the 25 WATERLOO-MISSISSAUGA branches would also provide an additional connection into Toronto for those headed into Waterloo Region.  

[Megabus Rider]

5 hours ago, Gil said:

I assume you mean the entrance on York St. at the Royal York?  Pre-pandemic that was already a busy spot with the various shuttle and tour buses along with the taxis.  There's already a lot of traffic on Front St. and I think they wouldn't take too kindly to having the buses at their front door as I doubt the two clientele have much in common.  As for stopping on the street, the few places I've seen that have laybys for motorcoaches (usually tour buses from out of town and not the sightseeing buses) are also used by people picking up a coffee or making deliveries which puts them at a premium.  Given the City's desire to have streets free-flowing especially during rush hour, I don't see them readily allowing MegaBus to serve on street stops for the extended amount of time required to get everyone on and off the buses considering Toronto is a terminus stop.

Even if Ontario Northland went to serving the Hwy. 407 station that still leaves a lot of other intercity traffic at the new bus terminal.  Greyhound's remaining service include Ottawa, London and points west and I believe its codeshare (I don't know if that aviation term can be applied to buses) service to NYC via other carriers like Adirondck Trailways serving cities between Niagara and Toronto.  There are also tour operators departing from the current Coach Terminal, will they be accommodated at the new bus terminal assuming things ever go back to normal?

The new Kipling station is also supposed to bring in 3 GO Transit routes.  No word on which ones, but I'm guessing possibly a branch of the 21 MILTON and the 29 GUELPH-MISSISSAUGA which used to run to Cooksville.  One of the 25 WATERLOO-MISSISSAUGA branches would also provide an additional connection into Toronto for those headed into Waterloo Region.  

Once upon a time in 2008, Greyhound and Megabus used the York Street curbside in front of the Royal York Hotel for their service to NYC. Few years later they both moved that stop to the Toronto Coach Terminal and all departures and arrivals have happened there ever since. However in the last few years, parking enforcement has ticketed buses there at random, including Greyhound when actively unloading. As long Toronto does not amend their Bylaws by moving towards a permit system similar to NYC and Boston where all buses must use a Terminal or be assigned and pay fees to do curbside pick up and drop off, or like DC where all drop offs and pick ups must be done at Union Station unless there is a designated Tour Bus loading and unloading zone, budget Tour operators will continue to use curbside to conduct their services.

It's not codeshare, it's interline agreements. Adirondack Trailways does not operate between Buffalo and Toronto, the Trailways units are wet leased to Greyhound Canada to operate between Buffalo and Toronto as per their pool or interline agreements. The only Tour Operator to operate out of the Toronto Coach Terminal is Gray Line. I am not sure if anybody took over JBC Coach Lines' Casino Rama shuttle run which started at the Coach Terminal but that would be the other Service. I would imagine if Tour Bus Operators wanted to rent a bay at the New Terminal, Metrolinx would allow it. Go Transit/Metrolinx rents bays at Yorkdale, Scarborough Town Centre and Finch Station Terminals to Angel Tours, and a bay at the 407 and Hurontario for Safeway Tours.

[smallspy]

18 hours ago, Megabus Rider said:

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2017/April_20/Reports/8_TCTI_Lease_Disposition.pdf

It seems even the TTC expects the Terminal to be vacated

You realize that report was presented over 3 years ago, right? And what has happened since?

 

Eventually, yes. Once the right bid for the property comes up, the TTC will sell the property and (maybe) close the facility. (Or maybe not. That will be up to the new owners of the property.)

 

But that hasn't happened yet. And despite them trying to sell off 130 Elizabeth for several years now, there have been no takers.

 

Dan

[Megabus Rider]

On 6/17/2020 at 9:59 AM, smallspy said:

You realize that report was presented over 3 years ago, right? And what has happened since?

 

Eventually, yes. Once the right bid for the property comes up, the TTC will sell the property and (maybe) close the facility. (Or maybe not. That will be up to the new owners of the property.)

 

But that hasn't happened yet. And despite them trying to sell off 130 Elizabeth for several years now, there have been no takers.

 

Dan

Let's see, the Terminal was being built and Metrolinx is waiting for the rest of the building to be built.

Yes, Elizabeth Street Terminal is Vacant but the roadway is being used. I am sure once the new terminal is ok for occupancy, an announcement will be made whether the Toronto Coach Terminal is occupied or vacant.

I am sure (if you're a home owner) new construction move-in dates are not really set in stone. We did have a pandemic, didn't we?

[lip]

The Coach Terminal is going to be redeveloped there's no question about it. It's just a matter of when; the city was looking to depose of the land as early as 2021 but that may change of course with Covid-19:

"610 Bay Street (and adjacent 130 Elizabeth Street) are City-owned assets under the operational management of TTC. The facilities are currently leased-out for the delivery of inter-city, inter-regional and inter-national bus services, which are expected to relocate to Union Station in 2021. As a result, 610 Bay Street and 130 Elizabeth Street are considered to be underutilized City assets with higher use potential to deliver City building outcomes, while respecting the heritage components of the site. " - Report from the Chief Executive Officer, CreateTO on ModernTO: City-Wide Real Estate Strategy and Office Portfolio Optimization

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/ra/bgrd/backgroundfile-137925.pdf

The city wont have any trouble finding any takers for the property, as land is becoming increasingly scarce in the downtown core.

[Shaun]

29 minutes ago, lip said:

The Coach Terminal is going to be redeveloped there's no question about it. It's just a matter of when; the city was looking to depose of the land as early as 2021 but that may change of course with Covid-19:

"610 Bay Street (and adjacent 130 Elizabeth Street) are City-owned assets under the operational management of TTC. The facilities are currently leased-out for the delivery of inter-city, inter-regional and inter-national bus services, which are expected to relocate to Union Station in 2021. As a result, 610 Bay Street and 130 Elizabeth Street are considered to be underutilized City assets with higher use potential to deliver City building outcomes, while respecting the heritage components of the site. " - Report from the Chief Executive Officer, CreateTO on ModernTO: City-Wide Real Estate Strategy and Office Portfolio Optimization

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/ra/bgrd/backgroundfile-137925.pdf

The city wont have any trouble finding any takers for the property, as land is becoming increasingly scarce in the downtown core.

You mean to move to the current union station bus terminal in 2021? Or the new one?

[Doppelkupplung]

45 minutes ago, Shaun said:

You mean to move to the current union station bus terminal in 2021? Or the new one?

Existing/old one is being redeveloped into a building if I’m not mistaken. There’s a city of TO notice for redevelopment that’s been up for a few years now just by the exit of the terminal.

it would’ve been cool if they could’ve turned the area into like 2 terminal tracks but I suppose that’s just a fantasy. Not enough space or sense in that idea. 

[Articulated]

50 minutes ago, Shaun said:

You mean to move to the current union station bus terminal in 2021? Or the new one?

The current Union Station Bus Terminal is going to be the base of a building shortly. The land USBT is located on (plus the air rights over the rail corridor) was included in the deal that got the new terminal incorporated into the base of the building on the south side.

As for everyone yammering on about the new terminal being too small, current USBT has 7 platforms, and current TCT has 7 departure platforms (never mind that they're numbered 1-14, each platform has 2 numbers assigned to it. This is a holdover from the days before 45' coaches were standard. The even numbered platforms are never used nowadays), plus one lane in the Elizabeth Street building for arrivals. With the amount of service reductions over the past couple of years, there are no more than 4 scheduled departures within any 30 minute span, so 7 platforms for arrivals and departures will be sufficient. The new terminal seems to have 2 levels of 7 platforms each; this nicely segregates GO and intercity passengers onto two separate levels, and each level has enough platforms for their own needs.

[Megabus Rider]

7 hours ago, Articulated said:

The current Union Station Bus Terminal is going to be the base of a building shortly. The land USBT is located on (plus the air rights over the rail corridor) was included in the deal that got the new terminal incorporated into the base of the building on the south side.

As for everyone yammering on about the new terminal being too small, current USBT has 7 platforms, and current TCT has 7 departure platforms (never mind that they're numbered 1-14, each platform has 2 numbers assigned to it. This is a holdover from the days before 45' coaches were standard. The even numbered platforms are never used nowadays), plus one lane in the Elizabeth Street building for arrivals. With the amount of service reductions over the past couple of years, there are no more than 4 scheduled departures within any 30 minute span, so 7 platforms for arrivals and departures will be sufficient. The new terminal seems to have 2 levels of 7 platforms each; this nicely segregates GO and intercity passengers onto two separate levels, and each level has enough platforms for their own needs.

My Assumption is Metrolinx will use the same system as the Port Authority Bus Terminal buy renting out each bay. Greyhound, Megabus, TOK and Northland will each take one bay and use their logos on the gates which leaves Go Transit 10 Bays to play around with on both levels.

[smallspy]

On 6/21/2020 at 12:48 AM, Megabus Rider said:

Let's see, the Terminal was being built and Metrolinx is waiting for the rest of the building to be built.

Metrolinx owns the new terminal currently being completed. They do not own Bay Street - the TTC does.

 

I know this should be obvious, but there are very, very serious systemic issues and disagreements between the two agencies. They seldom see eye-to-eye, and just because one figures or decrees that something should be a fait accompli does not necessarily make it so.

On 6/21/2020 at 12:48 AM, Megabus Rider said:

Yes, Elizabeth Street Terminal is Vacant but the roadway is being used. I am sure once the new terminal is ok for occupancy, an announcement will be made whether the Toronto Coach Terminal is occupied or vacant.

The TTC has quietly been trying to sell off the Elizabeth Terminal for almost 20 years. They haven't been able to yet.

On 6/21/2020 at 12:48 AM, Megabus Rider said:

I am sure (if you're a home owner) new construction move-in dates are not really set in stone. We did have a pandemic, didn't we?

How is that relevant if the discussions involved have been happening for a decade or more? Do those discussions suddenly become irrelevant?

14 hours ago, lip said:

The Coach Terminal is going to be redeveloped there's no question about it. It's just a matter of when; the city was looking to depose of the land as early as 2021 but that may change of course with Covid-19:

"610 Bay Street (and adjacent 130 Elizabeth Street) are City-owned assets under the operational management of TTC. The facilities are currently leased-out for the delivery of inter-city, inter-regional and inter-national bus services, which are expected to relocate to Union Station in 2021. As a result, 610 Bay Street and 130 Elizabeth Street are considered to be underutilized City assets with higher use potential to deliver City building outcomes, while respecting the heritage components of the site. " - Report from the Chief Executive Officer, CreateTO on ModernTO: City-Wide Real Estate Strategy and Office Portfolio Optimization

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/ra/bgrd/backgroundfile-137925.pdf

The city wont have any trouble finding any takers for the property, as land is becoming increasingly scarce in the downtown core.

Again - the TTC has been trying to move the Elizabeth Terminal for many, many years, and hasn't been able to as yet. There are a number of surface parking lots in the vicinity of the terminal that have been around for almost as long as I have been alive.

 

Don't assume that they won't have any trouble finding a buyer, because apparently others have been trying for many years with no luck.

 

Dan

[lip]

2 hours ago, smallspy said:

Again - the TTC has been trying to move the Elizabeth Terminal for many, many years, and hasn't been able to as yet. There are a number of surface parking lots in the vicinity of the terminal that have been around for almost as long as I have been alive.

 

Don't assume that they won't have any trouble finding a buyer, because apparently others have been trying for many years with no luck.

 

Dan

The only reason a sale in this particular instance would be harder/more challenging to do is if the city starts attaching contingencies into the sale (ie: including certain city services within the development), or if a prospective developer wants to assemble more property (ie: along Dundas St). The parking lot to the north of the terminal has already been assembled by a developer.

The market has changed over the past 10-20 years, and over the same period of time the amount of land available to develop has steadily decreased in the downtown core. Honestly it wont be difficult to flip the property; it's probably been more of a tricky sale because it's directly under the Sick Kids flight path.

[Megabus Rider]

12 hours ago, smallspy said:

Metrolinx owns the new terminal currently being completed. They do not own Bay Street - the TTC does.

I am aware of that but Ivanhoe is the owner/developer and until Ivanhoe has finished the building, Metrolinx can't operate until then. I am sure the TTC is aware of this until Greyhound has completed their Lease agreement with Metrolix (if they have started, but the TTC has implied that it has)

12 hours ago, smallspy said:

 

I know this should be obvious, but there are very, very serious systemic issues and disagreements between the two agencies. They seldom see eye-to-eye, and just because one figures or decrees that something should be a fait accompli does not necessarily make it so.

Yes I am aware of the Transit Agencies pissing match.

12 hours ago, smallspy said:

The TTC has quietly been trying to sell off the Elizabeth Terminal for almost 20 years. They haven't been able to yet.

To my knowledge, it wasn't to sell but rather to lease out the space since Green P has Go Transit's driveway for Municipal parking. I am not sure if it went to actually selling the building and land since the TTC gave up on leasing the building out.

12 hours ago, smallspy said:

How is that relevant if the discussions involved have been happening for a decade or more? Do those discussions suddenly become irrelevant?

When I mentioned that Greyhound is expected to move in, you have seem to fighting me on my knowledge about this. Greyhound was approached about moving to the new Terminal by Metrolinx back in 2014. However Ivanhoe failed to get a anchor Tenant in 2014 and didn't get one until 2017. Others have posted to support that Greyhound has already negotiated a lease with Metrolinx as TTC documents shows the Toronto Coach Terminal becoming surplus. Now we just had a pandemic, the new Terminal is built but not ready for operation. Heck, even the common areas for the Terminal are not done yet. Give it sometime, probably by fall and we'll see if the lease agreement went through. On TTC's side it seems the lease agreement has gone through between Greyhound and Metrolinx since they're trying to figure out on what to do with the Coach Terminal. Keep this behaviour up and I will passively ignore you just like with other members on here.

12 hours ago, smallspy said:

Again - the TTC has been trying to move the Elizabeth Terminal for many, many years, and hasn't been able to as yet. There are a number of surface parking lots in the vicinity of the terminal that have been around for almost as long as I have been alive.

 

Don't assume that they won't have any trouble finding a buyer, because apparently others have been trying for many years with no luck.

 

Dan

 

11 hours ago, lip said:

The only reason a sale in this particular instance would be harder/more challenging to do is if the city starts attaching contingencies into the sale (ie: including certain city services within the development), or if a prospective developer wants to assemble more property (ie: along Dundas St). The parking lot to the north of the terminal has already been assembled by a developer.

The market has changed over the past 10-20 years, and over the same period of time the amount of land available to develop has steadily decreased in the downtown core. Honestly it wont be difficult to flip the property; it's probably been more of a tricky sale because it's directly under the Sick Kids flight path.

It's downtown, it took Ivanhoe 3 years to find another tenant (besides Metrolinx) before CIBC Square can be built. The TTC won't go broke if the Coach Terminal isn't sold right after the new Union Station Bus Terminal is ready for operation.

[T3G]

Does anyone know what series of BiLevels the Crash Energy Management cars fall under? Back when I was sorting my online galleries, our wiki referred to them as Series IX. Now I see they are referred to as Series 10. Any idea of what the correct nomenclature is?

[J. Bullock]

On 6/23/2020 at 1:08 AM, Megabus Rider said:

It's downtown, it took Ivanhoe 3 years to find another tenant (besides Metrolinx) before CIBC Square can be built. The TTC won't go broke if the Coach Terminal isn't sold right after the new Union Station Bus Terminal is ready for operation.

Except that the TTC is already broke!

   

With the Durham College/UOIT Bus Loop closed for commencement ceremonies today + tomorrow, all 52 trips will service temporary stops along Simcoe Street.

[Mar_AC_23]

4 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Does anyone know what series of BiLevels the Crash Energy Management cars fall under? Back when I was sorting my online galleries, our wiki referred to them as Series IX. Now I see they are referred to as Series 10. Any idea of what the correct nomenclature is?

The new BiLevels that you are talking about are correctly known as Series 10.