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Alexander Dennis

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photo attached may answer your question, the depth of the windshield did change among the 3 generations Enviro 500 buses but the cockpit inside didn't get lowered, hence the bike rack won't block their view at all.

True that the windshield on the new E500 is taller without changing the driver's position, but the Superlo has redesigned headlights and it looks like even less space between the bottom of the windshield and the bumper, which could put the driver's seat lower. This would make sense if the bus is getting shorter, as most of that is probably taken off the lower deck as most passengers will be up top. All speculation of course, but they wouldn't have changed the headlights without reason.

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True that the windshield on the new E500 is taller without changing the driver's position, but the Superlo has redesigned headlights and it looks like even less space between the bottom of the windshield and the bumper, which could put the driver's seat lower. This would make sense if the bus is getting shorter, as most of that is probably taken off the lower deck as most passengers will be up top. All speculation of course, but they wouldn't have changed the headlights without reason.

that can be true because the cockpit of those 13'6" Enviro 500 dropped 6" comparing to the 14'0" tall Enviro 500 while remaining the same clearance, so there is a chance that the cockpit of these 12'10" were dropped even lower in order to yield more clearance for the upper deck. Everytime when they are trying to reduce the height of the bus, they can only do it to the lower deck while remaining the clearance of the upper deck.

I can't wait to see those SuperLo Enviro 500!!!

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AC Transit ordered 10 firm back in Aug 2016 and took 5 options in Sept 2016. They will replace the Older MCI, They had 19 options so with the 5 taken they can still get another 14 if they take the options. Also UniTrans-University of California, Davis and WestCAT-Western Contra Costa Transit Authority as these agencies willhold options under the contract to acquire three and six double deck buses, respectively.

 

http://www.actransit.org/wp-content/uploads/board_memos/15-251b Double Deck Bus Procurement.pdf

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There is already a Midi thread but seeing as it is now a ADL product....

Cities Area Transit (Grand Forks, ND) has purchased 2 30' Enviro 200 buses from ADL. Cities Area Transit is leading a multi year procurement for buses along with several other transit agencies. The RFP asked for pricing on 30' and 35' medium duty buses and ADL's base price was $371,565 for a 30' bus and $381,938 for a 35' bus. The 2 30' Enviro 200 to Cities Area Transit specification come in at a estimated cost of $357,477.

For comparison, Cities Area Transit is also purchasing 2 XD35 Xcelsior buses, with the base price being $498,960 and cost for Cities Area Transit specification is $472,906.

Grand Forks staff report recommending purchase with pricing sheet

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13 minutes ago, Silly Tilley said:

There is already a Midi thread but seeing as it is now a ADL product....

Cities Area Transit (Grand Forks, ND) has purchased 2 30' Enviro 200 buses from ADL. Cities Area Transit is leading a multi year procurement for buses along with several other transit agencies. The RFP asked for pricing on 30' and 35' medium duty buses and ADL's base price was $371,565 for a 30' bus and $381,938 for a 35' bus. The 2 30' Enviro 200 to Cities Area Transit specification come in at a estimated cost of $357,477.

For comparison, Cities Area Transit is also purchasing 2 XD35 Xcelsior buses, with the base price being $498,960 and cost for Cities Area Transit specification is $472,906.

Grand Forks staff report recommending purchase with pricing sheet

So it sounds like the 200s are essentially replacing an ARBOC and a 30' Gillig, (and the XDE35 replace a 30' Gillig and a D35LF). Would love to know what the other agencies involved are. I have to suspect MATBUS, they also have some 30' Gilligs up for retirement soon.

At any rate it's nice to see the 200 continuing on in the North American market. Now the question remains, will we see the 200 MMC styling brought here to match the current 500?

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23 minutes ago, MVTArider said:

So it sounds like the 200s are essentially replacing an ARBOC and a 30' Gillig, (and the XDE35 replace a 30' Gillig and a D35LF). Would love to know what the other agencies involved are. I have to suspect MATBUS, they also have some 30' Gilligs up for retirement soon.

At any rate it's nice to see the 200 continuing on in the North American market. Now the question remains, will we see the 200 MMC styling brought here to match the current 500?

According to the RFP document http://grandforksgov.com/home/showdocument?id=20255, the consortium members are

  • Grand Forks, ND (lead agency)
  • Bismarck, ND
  • Minot, ND
  • Omaha, NE
  • Lincoln, NE
  • East Grand Forks, MN
  • Macon, GA

So it looks like those cities will be able to purchase either Enviro 200 30'/35' or Xcelsior 35'/40' off this contract. It could be a few years before they do as it's a 5 year contract. 

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On 8/31/2017 at 1:10 PM, Silly Tilley said:

According to the RFP document http://grandforksgov.com/home/showdocument?id=20255, the consortium members are

  • Grand Forks, ND (lead agency)
  • Bismarck, ND
  • Minot, ND
  • Omaha, NE
  • Lincoln, NE
  • East Grand Forks, MN
  • Macon, GA

So it looks like those cities will be able to purchase either Enviro 200 30'/35' or Xcelsior 35'/40' off this contract. It could be a few years before they do as it's a 5 year contract. 

Here's my assessment after Grand Forks announced the pick of Enviro 200's and New Flyer Xcelsior's:

  • I think Bismarck and Minot will both back out of this consortium, as Bismarck will get more baby Gillig Low Floor's to replace the oldest sister buses and Minot will get more Eldorado National EZ-Rider II BRT's (possibly 35ft. versions) to keep their fleets simple and parts consistent.
  • On the other hand, we may finally see green-liveried XN35's for city routes with Lincoln's StarTran.
  • The high-floor bus era at Omaha Metro may finally be over with more Xcelsior's finally ousting the remaining 1994 Flixible Metro's and 1998 Gillig Phantom's.
  • Either the 35ft. Enviro 200 or XD35 may replace Blue Bird Ultra LF's and/or Orion VII OG's at Macon.
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Looks like Minnesota Valley Transit Authority (MVTA) of Minneapolis, is testing the new SuperLo Double Decker buses and have it wrapped nicely in the SuperBowl scheme for the SuperBowl shuttle, not sure if the testing is over as the schedule of the bus listed on MVTA website is only until Feb 4.

http://www.swnewsmedia.com/shakopee_valley_news/news/local/minnesota-valley-transit-authority-to-use-double-decker-buses-special/article_92dae56e-a18d-5eba-93fd-69c5e2f9621c.html

https://www.mvta.com/news/ride-the-double-decker-and-the-electric-bus/

not to mention they are testing a Proterra all electric bus at the same time

 

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I've been searching this on google and wiki but there seems to be a contradiction as to the designations of the E500 generations.
Some sites call it E500 MMC, while others call it E500 Facelift. I've even saw a site calling them E500NG.

Which generation does the E500 MMC belong to? The 2nd gen or 3rd gen?
If the MMC is 2nd gen, then what do they call the 3rd gen? If the MMC is 3rd gen, then what do they call the 2nd gen?

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6 hours ago, Orion V said:

Which generation does the E500 MMC belong to? The 2nd gen or 3rd gen?
If the MMC is 2nd gen, then what do they call the 3rd gen? If the MMC is 3rd gen, then what do they call the 2nd gen?

The MMC notation stands for Major Model Change, and is applied to every new model that ADL introduces, so it doesn't necessarily apply to the 2nd or 3rd gen specifically,;it applies to all of them, when used in context correctly. When the 2012 E500s came out, they were the second generation replacing the first generation (newer styling, rounded body, headlight cluster changed etc.). From what I've seen, it is used in context with the preceding generation. So, I could say "GO Transit is replacing their 8000s in favour of the third generation E500 MMC "(this would be 2017- + in GOTs case). This also applies to any other ADL model, like the E400, E200 etc. Think of it as referring to the restyled body. Another way to think of it is with New Flyer; the XD60 would have been the "MMC" of the D60LFR. Essentially, when used in context properly, the following generation. 

This is why you will hear some say the MMC was introduced in NA in 2012, where it replaced the first generation E500s, in the same way the latest MMC (the 2016/7 E500s, SuperLos etc.) replaces what came out in 2012. 

The MMC can also be broken down into more specific terms, such as stated above, the E500 SuperLo, the E500H (hybrid) etc. Different countries use different notation, but generally follow the same logic.

In Europe, the release of the models was a bit earlier, where the styling we saw here introduced in 2012 was already existing in the UK since 2009. If we take the E200, the second gen production of it existed all the way up til last year, when it was retired. It was built along the third gen E200 MMC, whereas the existing 2nd gen E200 was referred to as the E200 Classic, once the 3rd gen E200 MMC was released. 

What I've just said, in short, is that the MMC is the facelift

6 hours ago, Orion V said:

I've been searching this on google and wiki but there seems to be a contradiction as to the designations of the E500 generations.
Some sites call it E500 MMC, while others call it E500 Facelift. I've even saw a site calling them E500NG.

What you are hearing is very likely from the Asia Pacific sites, where the E500 is operated extensively in places like Hong Kong for KMB bus, Citybus and Singapore SMRT, to name a few. The 500 has been an absolute hit there, having seen all three gens bought and delivered in big numbers. Heck, what am I saying, they have a factory in Zhuhai, China. You will hear them referred to as much more, such as the 3rd gen being called the E500NG, E500 MMC (as explained above, the NG notation follows same logic), and Trident E500 Turbo (for those old schoolers:)), as well as the E50D, or E50H, in the right cases. 

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So for the HK models, it should just be called 1G, 2G and 3G. The MMC and NG just confuses it.

For GO, 8000s would be 1G, 8100s 2Gs, 8300s 3Gs?

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On 2/10/2018 at 6:40 PM, Orion V said:

So for the HK models, it should just be called 1G, 2G and 3G. The MMC and NG just confuses it.

For GO, 8000s would be 1G, 8100s 2Gs, 8300s 3Gs?

MMC and NG are essentially the same thing. NG is not used as often, if ever, over here and in Europe. More of an Asia-Pacific thing. 

But yes, they essentially are the 1G, 2G, 3G etc, where the 3G is the MMC of the 2G and so on, and this applies to GOT as well. 

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On 2/10/2018 at 2:44 AM, Doppelkupplung said:

The MMC notation stands for Major Model Change, and is applied to every new model that ADL introduces, so it doesn't necessarily apply to the 2nd or 3rd gen specifically,;it applies to all of them, when used in context correctly. When the 2012 E500s came out, they were the second generation replacing the first generation (newer styling, rounded body, headlight cluster changed etc.). From what I've seen, it is used in context with the preceding generation. So, I could say "GO Transit is replacing their 8000s in favour of the third generation E500 MMC "(this would be 2017- + in GOTs case). This also applies to any other ADL model, like the E400, E200 etc. Think of it as referring to the restyled body. Another way to think of it is with New Flyer; the XD60 would have been the "MMC" of the D60LFR. Essentially, when used in context properly, the following generation. 

This is why you will hear some say the MMC was introduced in NA in 2012, where it replaced the first generation E500s, in the same way the latest MMC (the 2016/7 E500s, SuperLos etc.) replaces what came out in 2012. 

The MMC can also be broken down into more specific terms, such as stated above, the E500 SuperLo, the E500H (hybrid) etc. Different countries use different notation, but generally follow the same logic.

In Europe, the release of the models was a bit earlier, where the styling we saw here introduced in 2012 was already existing in the UK since 2009. If we take the E200, the second gen production of it existed all the way up til last year, when it was retired. It was built along the third gen E200 MMC, whereas the existing 2nd gen E200 was referred to as the E200 Classic, once the 3rd gen E200 MMC was released. 

What I've just said, in short, is that the MMC is the facelift

What you are hearing is very likely from the Asia Pacific sites, where the E500 is operated extensively in places like Hong Kong for KMB bus, Citybus and Singapore SMRT, to name a few. The 500 has been an absolute hit there, having seen all three gens bought and delivered in big numbers. Heck, what am I saying, they have a factory in Zhuhai, China. You will hear them referred to as much more, such as the 3rd gen being called the E500NG, E500 MMC (as explained above, the NG notation follows same logic), and Trident E500 Turbo (for those old schoolers:)), as well as the E50D, or E50H, in the right cases. 

TOTALLY incorrect!

Enviro 500 was first introduced in HK back in 2003.  The model(including chassis and body) didn't change until 2013, when the chassis was going over major change, which includes the placement of the engine and transmission.  The old "Trident" specification chassis on the old E500 is gone and replaced by a new chassis configuration.  Of course, the body was changed as well in 2013 which they adopted the Enviro 400 body(the same appearance as Go Transit's 8100's series), and ADL named these batch of E500 "MMC" NG.  The body was redesigned in 2016 but the chassis remained unchanged, which is why it is called E500 FACELIFT now in HK (or E50D according to the builder plate)

For North America, GO Transit's 8100's series chassis almost remain unchanged as 8000's, except for the placement of the fuel tank as they cannot be placed underneath the staircase anymore due to the drop of 6" in body heights.  Hence there is no major model change at all except a new body style(note the placement of the fuel tank on this batch is located right above the 3rd axle and occupied a lot of interior space, which at least 9 seats space were wasted).  They just called it "Enviro 500 Low Height Go-Anywhere" in North America but not MMC or anything, as those terms only applied to Asia's market for them to identify different batches out.  Until SuperLo E500 is developed, it is actually a MMC redesigned chassis which is very similar to Asia's E500 chassis with similar placement of transmission and engine.  However they just called it "E500 SuperLo" here instead of "E500 MMC Facelift"

The "E500 Low Height Go-Anywhere" model were updated again as well, which the difference can be spotted between OC Transpo's 8000's and 8100's series buses, beside a different body style, the fuel tank was relocated on the OC's 8100's series which doesn't occupy as much interior space, especially on the last row of seats on the lower deck as OC's 8000's series, now the fuel tank is placed on the door side of the vehicle near the back, which helps to gain some seats back on the lower deck.  Of course, these chassis adopted the MMC design which is similar to HK's newest batch too

Why there is so many changes and update over years?  Thank you to our height restriction here that ADL has to keep building a lower and lower bus which is a pain for them to design as there is no room to put all the stuffs in..............fuel tank, batteries, air tank, a/c duct, besides engine, transmission and a/c.............to design and build a LOW HEIGHT double decker is MUCH HARDER than regular height double decker bus

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On 2/10/2018 at 6:40 PM, Orion V said:

So for the HK models, it should just be called 1G, 2G and 3G. The MMC and NG just confuses it.

For GO, 8000s would be 1G, 8100s 2Gs, 8300s 3Gs?

For HK, the first batch 2003 to 2013, is called E500 Trident, 2nd batch 2013 to 2016 called Enviro 500 MMC NG, 3rd batch 2016 to now called Enviro 500 facelift(Or E50D)

For GO Transit(or North America), 14' tall's one (Go's 8000) is called Enviro 500, 13' 6" tall one (Go's 8100's) is called Enviro 500 Low Height(Go-Anywhere), 12' 10" tall one(Go's 8300's) are called Enviro 500 SuperLo

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