busfreak99

The Bus (Honolulu, HI)

461 posts in this topic

Having visited the State of Hawaii over Spring Break, I captured a few photos of their cute little operation they have going. Enjoy!

HawaiiSan_9_121.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_125.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_126.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_144.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_146.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_147.jpg

(I apologize for the lacking quality, most of them were taken out the window of our rental car.)

Cheers.

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Having visited the State of Hawaii over Spring Break, I captured a few photos of their cute little operation they have going. Enjoy!

HawaiiSan_9_121.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_125.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_126.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_144.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_146.jpg

HawaiiSan_9_147.jpg

(I apologize for the lacking quality, most of them were taken out the window of our rental car.)

Cheers.

I cant til March. Im going over for a week to visit friends from college, so I know Im riding.

James

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Holy Crap, they still have the ol' TMC T80-608s?

I thought they were all gone. Man, I want one, but the ex-Muncie T80-608s sitting not far from me are a better size for my property.

You've made my day with that photo, man!

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Does anybody know what the rear of the D60LFR buses look like? I'm guessing they look like the rear of the D60LF buses.

Thanks.

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Does anybody know what the rear of the D60LFR buses look like? I'm guessing they look like the rear of the D60LF buses.

Thanks.

They look different

trolley_3.jpg

Like this, except replace the window with an HVAC unit.

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Does anybody know what the rear of the D60LFR buses look like? I'm guessing they look like the rear of the D60LF buses.

Thanks.

:P Let me reword the question:

"Does the rear of the D60LFR buses look like the D60LF bus or the DE40LFR bus?"

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:P Let me reword the question:

"Does the rear of the D60LFR buses look like the D60LF bus or the DE40LFR bus?"

It would look like the DE40LFR because the "LFR" means "Low Floor Restyled" im assuming anyways... But we have DE60LFR's here in Hamilton (HSR) and they are restyled. Our D40LF's are old rear, where as a D40LFR (which we don't have yet, hopefully in a few years) :) has the new restyled rear.

Hope this helps. :lol: If you look 2 posts up in the Mississauga Transit photo, the bus on the left (0616) is a D40LFR, and the pic on the right (0315) is a D40LF.

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I'd be interested to see a DE60LF with an ISL...according to the New Flyer website the C9 is the only configuration.

The original configuration was ISL/Ev50 in which King County Metro had ordered their first demo/production unit 2599. From what I've heard, the ISL was not effective for them so they specified the Cat C9 and ordered the rest alongside their D60LFs with Cat C9. So, now the standard configuration is Cat C9/Ev50.

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The original configuration was ISL/Ev50 in which King County Metro had ordered their first demo/production unit 2599. From what I've heard, the ISL was not effective for them so they specified the Cat C9 and ordered the rest alongside their D60LFs with Cat C9. So, now the standard configuration is Cat C9/Ev50.

That's a negative, KCM's 2008 DE60LFs are going to be delivered with the ISL.

http://transit.metrokc.gov/am/vehicles/hy-diesel.html

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Bringing up a very old topic...

KITV.com

Hybrid Bus Breakdown Issue Solved

Improper Battery Calibration To Blame, Officials Say

POSTED: 4:31 pm HST January 28, 2009

UPDATED: 4:41 pm HST January 28, 2009

HONOLULU -- City bus officials said they have solved the problem KITV reported Tuesday night that caused new hybrid buses to break down.

Forty hybrid buses suffered 10 breakdowns in the last couple of months since the city began using them on a Kailua route that required them to drive up and down the Pali.

Officials said they discovered the bus engines had been improperly calibrated, which was causing the buses to overcharge their batteries and break down.

Once the settings in the engines' electronic control modules are changed, mechanics said they expect to have no further problems with the buses.

Copyright 2009 by KITV.com All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.kitv.com/news/18590799/detail.html

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Hmmm, after the fuel savings from the first time, it lessons CAT engine from not buying again!

Might have something to do with the fact that CAT is getting out of the road engine business due to the fact that they dont make much money on it, and stricter EPA standards.

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Might have something to do with the fact that CAT is getting out of the road engine business due to the fact that they dont make much money on it, and stricter EPA standards.

Yes, those are the comments I've mentioned!

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Looks like some trouble ahead...

May 10, 2009

Honolulu's switch to hybrid buses stalled by realities of costs

City study finds diesel-electric fleet not saving so much green after all, recommends scrapping plan

By Sean Hao

Advertiser Staff Writer

Honolulu's rapidly growing fleet of hybrid buses is not saving as much green as promised, and converting to hybrids has meant fewer new buses and an inventory that is likely the oldest in the nation.

Those conclusions are from a recently released city study that finds that the "green" buses don't make broad financial or environmental sense, and recommends a halt to hybrid purchases in favor of modern, clean-burning diesel buses.

Only a year ago, city officials said they were so pleased with their 50 hybrid diesel-electric buses that they wanted to convert half of the city's 530 buses to hybrids by 2013. At the time, only anecdotal evidence of the cost-effectiveness of the new hybrid buses was disclosed, and there was no data provided to support the decision. The new report, which the city posted on its Web site, assessed the cost-effectiveness of Honolulu's hybrids and is the first sign that the city's drive to buy them may have been ill-advised.

"Today's hybrids have not performed at the levels hoped for (and promised by the manufacturers)," according to the report. "While most manufacturers tout fuel savings as high as 60 percent, in-service tests have produced results that are, at best, about half of that level. In fact, most hybrid fuel savings are in the range of about 20 percent."

The report found that some maintenance costs are lower with hybrid buses, but that the high cost of batteries likely offsets those savings.

According to the report, hybrid buses do emit fewer pollutants and greenhouse gases than conventional diesel buses. However, there is still debate over whether hybrid buses are more "green" than modern so-called "clean diesels," the report states. Regardless, older bus engines are substantially dirtier than modern diesel engines, so buying more modern diesel buses is better for the environment than buying a relatively small number of more expensive hybrid buses.

"That's kind of the summary" of the report, said City Council member Gary Okino, who chairs the Transportation and Planning Committee. "Economically, if you look at it, I don't think ... (the city) is going to buy any more (hybrid buses)."

Henry Curtis, executive director of Life of the Land, an environmental and community action group, agreed with the report's conclusions that replacing old diesel buses with clean-diesel buses is better for the environment.

"My only caveat in supporting that would be if the old buses are taken off the road," he said. "If instead they're sold to someone else ... then you're not really taking them off the road, you're just adding new buses."

So-called "green" initiatives, while well intended, should not be launched in an ad hoc manner, Curtis said.

"The question is not what is the latest buzzword, but what does the scientific proof of different alternatives look like," he said. "What's actually going to make the environment better? What's actually going to make the climate better? That requires that we think about it and analyze it before we make the decision."

City Transportation Director Wayne Yoshioka and Roger Morton, president and general manager of bus operator O'ahu Transit Services Inc., did not return messages from The Advertiser seeking more information and comments for this story.

'Green' Image

Honolulu is among numerous transit agencies nationwide buying hybrid buses, but that decision may not be paying off in at least one other city.

C-Tran, a public transit agency in Clark County, Wash., recently purchased 12 hybrid buses, which were touted as fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly. However, an August report by Portland's Cascade Policy Institute found that, based on current rates of diesel price increases, the new hybrid buses would need to be in service for more than 31 years to offset their added up-front costs, according to the free-market public policy research center. The actual lifespan of the buses is estimated at 12 years.

For many cities, buying a hybrid is about buying an environmentally friendly image, said Todd Wynn, a climate change and energy policy analyst at the Cascade Policy Institute.

"It kind of creates a green veil over people's eyes," he said. "They hear the word green, they hear the word hybrid, and they think all these green happy thoughts.

"But once you look into it further, it doesn't make economic sense and a lot of times it doesn't make environmental sense either."

Currently, 275 city buses — more than half of Honolulu's fleet — are eligible for replacement under federal criteria.

The average age of TheBus fleet is nearly 10 years old, which likely makes it the oldest transit bus fleet in America, according to the city's report. The conversion to hybrids, which are 50 percent more costly than diesel buses, has led to fewer overall bus purchases in recent years and, in turn, an aging fleet, according to the report.

It's unclear whether the increasing age of the city's buses raises safety issues. However, the report states that the city needs to launch an aggressive bus repurchasing and rehab program to avoid operational and maintenance problems that could take years to overcome.

Council Chairman Todd Apo said the report's findings were unexpected.

"Hearing this is a little bit of a surprise because the (city transportation) department and the administration have been touting this whole (idea of) 'buy hybrid buses,' " he said. "If going completely green doesn't make sense from an economic, practical standpoint, and we're able to obtain greater sustainability goals through getting rid of old diesel buses, which are worse, then we need to do that."

'Doesn't make sense'

The hybrid buses, first bought in 2004, were touted as cleaner, quieter and more fuel-efficient than conventional diesel buses. But those benefits come at a premium.

Hybrid articulated buses cost nearly $1 million each, compared to about $380,000 for a typical 40-foot diesel bus. Previously, the city has said those higher costs may be recouped by long-term fuel efficiency gains. However, the buses are not cost- effective unless fuel costs increase at a rate of 20 percent each year for 15 years, according to the report.

During the past year, city officials have boosted the six-year bus and Handi-Van replacement budget by $100 million, to nearly $144 million. It's unclear whether that decision was made before or after the city learned the results of the hybrid bus report.

That increase in the bus replacement budget comes as the city is having to raise property taxes and a host of fees to balance its budget.

Overall, the city needs to buy about 40 buses a year to maintain its fleet, according to the report. The city did not specify how many buses it purchased annually prior to the conversion to hybrids. However, in the next 21 months the city only expects to receive 40 new buses. That includes 30 more diesel-hybrid articulated buses and ten 35-foot conventional diesel buses.

Okino said the city is continuing to buy hybrid buses to take advantage of federal stimulus money.

In addition to new bus purchases, O'ahu Transit is rehabbing about 12 buses a year at a cost of about $90,000 each. That extends the useful life of a bus by about four years.

City Council member Charles Djou said the city needs to rethink its strategy of switching to hybrid buses.

"I'm all for clean technology. I'm all for hybrids — just not at the expense of stupid economic decisions," he said. "I can see if it costs slightly more because hybrid buses just generally speaking are better for the environment, but if it's significantly more, then it just doesn't make sense.

"Why are we doing this?"

It's unclear why it took the city five years to evaluate the cost-effectiveness of hybrid buses.

"That's a very good question," Djou said.

Additional Facts

HYBRIDS

Savings: The report says "most fuel savings are in the range of about 20 percent."

City fleet: 50 buses

Emit fewer pollutants and greenhouse gases than conventional diesel buses. But it's not clear if they're less polluting than newer-style "clean diesels."

An articulated hybrid bus costs nearly $1 million.

DIESELS

City fleet: 480

275 city buses are eligible for replacement, based on federal criteria

10 years: average age of buses in Honolulu's fleet

$90,000: cost to overhaul a diesel bus to help it run for four more years

12: number of Honolulu buses being overhauled each year

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/.../905100367/1001

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Hopefully the same isn't true with ABQ RIDE. ABQ RIDE seems to be very happy with their hybrids, and I hope they don't go a step backward. ABQ RIDE has a 100% alternative propulsion fleet, with all buses being either diesel-electric hybrids or CNG. I don't see ABQ RIDE going the CNG route again, as CNG buses cost more to maintain.

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Looks like some trouble ahead...

well surprise-surprise......... :(

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Hopefully the same isn't true with ABQ RIDE. ABQ RIDE seems to be very happy with their hybrids, and I hope they don't go a step backward. ABQ RIDE has a 100% alternative propulsion fleet, with all buses being either diesel-electric hybrids or CNG. I don't see ABQ RIDE going the CNG route again, as CNG buses cost more to maintain.

I 2nd this comment---with Houston METRO---minus anything CNG-related. They're already committed to purchasing up to 100 hybrids per year so hopefully no bad news like this one will come about here in Houston.

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Try these pics.

Two Gillgs are the old ones from the 80's (retired) they have the wider rear doors and are in the old livery. They also had the 6v92 T/A engines. The rainbow ones are way newer and still in service. I also found a shot of the old Hawaii Fishbowls in some yard in the Country side of Oahu.

Holy Crap, they still have the ol' TMC T80-608s?

I thought they were all gone. Man, I want one, but the ex-Muncie T80-608s sitting not far from me are a better size for my property.

You've made my day with that photo, man!

Yeah they only bring those out to help with morning and afternoon rush hour.

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thebus851.jpg

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post-4134-1258865525.jpg

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Speaking of Thebus, does anybody by chance have photos of the short lived ferry, theboat?

I was wondering because the boats used for that operation (M/V Melissa Ann and M/V Rachel Marie) have quite a little history. I have a lack of documentation of them ranging from 2007 thru 2009. They moved to Hawaii to do a trial called Theboat. After that, the M/V Melissa Ann was brought back home (Seattle) to start service as the King County Water Taxi's Seattle-Vashon Island route. I have yet to find where the M/V Rachel Marie ended up.

Rachel Marie and Melissa Ann being prepped to be shipped to Hawaii via barge. Photo taken from Argosy's Locks Tour, in Salmon Bay

Rachel Marie in Port Orchard, serving as backup to the Melissa Ann for the Kitsap Ferry Co's Seattle/Bremerton passenger route.

Melissa Ann back in Seattle, as the King County Water Taxi. At present, she operates the Seattle/Vashon route.

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I just read on Wikipedia that TheBus in Hawaii has some buses on order from New Flyer, 10 of which are 60-foot artics and 20-which are 35-footers. I was wondering, does anyone know anything about these orders? Will they be hybrids?

I assume they will most likely be New Flyer LFR series buses, and if they are indeed hybrids, then TheBus would be the launch customer for the DE35LFR.

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I just read on Wikipedia that TheBus in Hawaii has some buses on order from New Flyer, 10 of which are 60-foot artics and 20-which are 35-footers. I was wondering, does anyone know anything about these orders? Will they be hybrids?

I assume they will most likely be New Flyer LFR series buses, and if they are indeed hybrids, then TheBus would be the launch customer for the DE35LFR.

No sorry no 35ft hybrids. They will be Clean Diesel fuel buses.

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