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5 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

No Im not just referring to Southeast...I heard from someone they plan to consolidate Southwest as well...

Southwest (8300 Keele Street) operates out of a region owned facility. I don't see them adding an additional division to BRT with southeast (Miller). Adding both divisions BRT and Southeast would put it close to 300 buses which the current site is built for 250 articulated buses. Unless they are doing additional work to maximize the site which would increase the capacity higher. 

Not only that, it would also increase deadhead times trying to get to route start points. 

2 hours ago, menath said:

The a330's are still reliable. Honestly I would say that it depends on maintenance on how buses are reliable  

True. At the same time, there is only so much support that can be provided since they have been refurbished to ensure an 18 year lifecycle. 2005 AG300 buses were retired after 12 years which the original batch went to 20 Jane and 90 Leslie to increase capacity without budget. Those units were retired once the XD60 buses arrived.

A330 is still supported. At the same time, they have to figure out if they really want to deal with the hassles of obtaining parts since Van Hool is from Belgium. 

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1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Southwest (8300 Keele Street) operates out of a region owned facility. I don't see them adding an additional division to BRT with southeast (Miller). Adding both divisions BRT and Southeast would put it close to 300 buses which the current site is built for 250 articulated buses. Unless they are doing additional work to maximize the site which would increase the capacity higher. 

Not only that, it would also increase deadhead times trying to get to route start points. 

True. At the same time, there is only so much support that can be provided since they have been refurbished to ensure an 18 year lifecycle. 2005 AG300 buses were retired after 12 years which the original batch went to 20 Jane and 90 Leslie to increase capacity without budget. Those units were retired once the XD60 buses arrived.

A330 is still supported. At the same time, they have to figure out if they really want to deal with the hassles of obtaining parts since Van Hool is from Belgium. 

Parts are exchanged between buses

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17 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Considering that they are still operating reduced service, Region of York most likely deferred replacing buses if they don't need them immediately with the reduced mileage. With their cost cutting measures to try and not increase the cost of service with lower ridership. 

The AG300 buses (82xx units) were supposed to be replaced last year. It is still on their books since the final batch is what will complete the current contract for Nova buses that were issued years ago. 18 years is a pretty long time to keep a bus running with all the wear and tear along with kilometres racked up over that time period.

A330 buses are slated to be retired next year pending what decisions are made if they are going through more refurbishment to hold them together. With a lot of mileage on them, older buses become more unreliable the longer they operate even with extensive work to keep them together. 

 

Wouldn't it be that seeing as there's not such a big need for service expansion, wouldn't it be better to retire the oldest/older buses for newer ones without increasing the fleet, rather than to still keep the 300/400/500's?

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1 hour ago, newflyerinvero said:

Wouldn't it be that seeing as there's not such a big need for service expansion, wouldn't it be better to retire the oldest/older buses for newer ones without increasing the fleet, rather than to still keep the 300/400/500's?

Reading the COVID-19 recovery plan for this year, the plan is to increase service where needed which is why they most likely deferred any retirements or replacement bus purchases. Trying to make sure they have enough buses to provide the higher amount of service along with spares in case of bus breakdowns. Assuming those changes do go through. Service ramped up in response to demand and funding. 

El Dorado buses 850 to 868 were retired in late 2020 with no replacement units planned tied to the reduction of service long-term. A reduction of 18 buses for the fleet. 

Being careful that if they do ramp up service, the contractors have the equipment and operators to provide that service. If there is a reduction of buses, it could affect the ability to provide service along with maintaining a reasonable spare ratio. 

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6 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Reading the COVID-19 recovery plan for this year, the plan is to increase service where needed which is why they most likely deferred any retirements or replacement bus purchases. Trying to make sure they have enough buses to provide the higher amount of service along with spares in case of bus breakdowns. Assuming those changes do go through. Service ramped up in response to demand and funding. 

El Dorado buses 850 to 868 were retired in late 2020 with no replacement units planned tied to the reduction of service long-term. A reduction of 18 buses for the fleet. 

Being careful that if they do ramp up service, the contractors have the equipment and operators to provide that service. If there is a reduction of buses, it could affect the ability to provide service along with maintaining a reasonable spare ratio. 

In regards to your bottom state. Things can derail at the last minute due to a new Coronavirus variant. Office plans were pushed backed when omicron began spreading. So I wouldn't predict what will happen in the future but who knows

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On 2/9/2022 at 1:27 AM, Gil said:

Given the position YRT is in, how soon could they allocate resources to match what's currently provided by the TTC's 105 DUFFERIN NORTH? 

I don't know what the actual schedule is for YRT 105 but whenever I see them at Sheppard West Station, at least on weekdays, they take long layovers. I'm sure the layover time can be cut down to improve service frequency. I don't think traffic on Dufferin St is that bad that the buses need the recovery time that they get. Especially considering that the route partially runs in bus/HOV lanes both north and south of Steeles.

On 2/9/2022 at 2:56 PM, Mike said:

For Route 102 they could do the following TTC runs 102A/B/C from Warden Stn to Centennial/Steeles, YRT runs 102D from Scarborough Town Center to Major Mackenzie.  I would think that this would produce a much more reliable service north of Steeles (as you would lose the 11km one way trip to Warden south of Progress and replace it with 2.5km trip to STC).

STC has no space for more buses. That's why DRT goes to McCowan Station, and soon GO will be kicked out to accommodate the increased TTC service to replace Line 3.

I can't seem to remember where I saw it, but there was a report that showed potential routes connecting to the Line 2 extension. In those plans there was a Markham Rd North bus from Sheppard East Station. I don't remember if it terminated in the Steeles area or if it went north of Steeles.

On 2/9/2022 at 5:22 PM, Articulated said:

Another example I'm more familiar with would be the Don Mills/Leslie corridor - if the pilot project is expanded, I can easily see TTC cancelling the 25C branch, with YRT route 90/90B buses providing all of the local service along Don Mills Road between Sheppard and Steeles. There may need to be a new YRT 90 branch (90C?) operating only between Sheppard and Steeles, to make up for the lost capacity (since YRT 90 buses currently operate at most every 15 minutes, while 25C buses currently operate every 7-8 minutes during rush hour).

Keep in mind, the 25C was created to reduce impact of service delays from the Eglinton LRT construction from affecting service north of Sheppard. The TTC could be planning on going back to the original one branch 25 service once the LRT opens. It would certainly help them save some money since they won't have to pay operators to travel from Eglinton Division to Don Mills Station anymore.

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19 minutes ago, wil9402 said:

I'm sure the layover time can be cut down to improve service frequency.

Not sure the drivers will be happy about that, though.

20 minutes ago, wil9402 said:

and soon GO will be kicked out to accommodate the increased TTC service to replace Line 3.

Where will GO... go instead?

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1 hour ago, wil9402 said:

I don't know what the actual schedule is for YRT 105 but whenever I see them at Sheppard West Station, at least on weekdays, they take long layovers. I'm sure the layover time can be cut down to improve service frequency. I don't think traffic on Dufferin St is that bad that the buses need the recovery time that they get. Especially considering that the route partially runs in bus/HOV lanes both north and south of Steeles.

Traffic on Dufferin between Finch and Steeles is pretty bad at rush hours in both directions. HOV lanes are only south of Finch and north of Steeles.

Quote

STC has no space for more buses. That's why DRT goes to McCowan Station, and soon GO will be kicked out to accommodate the increased TTC service to replace Line 3.

I can't seem to remember where I saw it, but there was a report that showed potential routes connecting to the Line 2 extension. In those plans there was a Markham Rd North bus from Sheppard East Station. I don't remember if it terminated in the Steeles area or if it went north of Steeles.

However, when Scarborough Extension is built bus terminal at STC could be enlarged to make room for any additional connection services from DRT/YRT, especially if by that time details of fare integration are ironed out.

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11 hours ago, Mike said:

Traffic on Dufferin between Finch and Steeles is pretty bad at rush hours in both directions. HOV lanes are only south of Finch and north of Steeles.

However, when Scarborough Extension is built bus terminal at STC could be enlarged to make room for any additional connection services from DRT/YRT, especially if by that time details of fare integration are ironed out.

Are YRT passengers trying to get to the subway or to STC?  Presumably a large enough terminal will be built at Sheppard East.  As for the TTC passengers there may be a demand to go to STC, so some routes may continue to be routed to the rebuilt Scarborough Centre station.  I think Sheppard is about as far south as YRT is willing to run into Toronto (Sheppard West/ex-Downsview, Don Mills, hell extend it further west and it lines up with Woodbine Centre).  I don't see GO moving to Sheppard East so any vacated  TTC bays can be reallocated to GO or DRT.  Steve Munro had a post back in 2017 looking at the plans to that point for the subway extension with a 30-bay terminal.  

Smallspy had noted most of the southbound traffic on the 68B was heading east on Sheppard.  Running a YRT Warden route out of Sheppard East would address that need though it is physically closer to Don Mills station the previous service didn't seem sustainable.

On an unrelated note, are Rutherford, Unionville and East Gwillimbury GO stations the only ones where YRT routes enter the station as opposed to serving them from the street?  I had noticed the terminal maps on the system map didn't include any GO train stations compared to other networks to the west (MiWay, Brampton, Oakville, Milton and Burlington Transit).  I don't even know if terminal maps exist for DRT aside from whatever Metrolinx' wayfinding program came up with.

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18 minutes ago, Gil said:

On an unrelated note, are Rutherford, Unionville and East Gwillimbury GO stations the only ones where YRT routes enter the station as opposed to serving them from the street?  I had noticed the terminal maps on the system map didn't include any GO train stations compared to other networks to the west (MiWay, Brampton, Oakville, Milton and Burlington Transit).  I don't even know if terminal maps exist for DRT aside from whatever Metrolinx' wayfinding program came up with.

YRT also enters Aurora GO to meet train times (routes 31, 32, 33/A, and 222). You could almost consider Maple GO, as route 22A used to divert into the cul-de-sac outside the station (close enough?) before service on that route was suspended during COVID.

Route 4A also previously served Mount Joy GO until it was replaced with route 25. There's also extra bays built into Lincolnville GO (now Old Elm GO) that were intended for YRT, however they have not extended bus service into the station as of yet.

DRT maps suck in general, if you've ever looked at their route schedules. Doesn't surprise me that they don't properly use terminal maps, considering all but two of the terminals they serve are either on-street or owned by someone else (GO stations, TTC, or OTU/DC).

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6 minutes ago, Articulated said:

YRT also enters Aurora GO to meet train times (routes 31, 32, 33/A, and 222). You could almost consider Maple GO, as route 22A used to divert into the cul-de-sac outside the station (close enough?) before service on that route was suspended during COVID.

Route 4A also previously served Mount Joy GO until it was replaced with route 25. There's also extra bays built into Lincolnville GO (now Old Elm GO) that were intended for YRT, however they have not extended bus service into the station as of yet.

DRT maps suck in general, if you've ever looked at their route schedules. Doesn't surprise me that they don't properly use terminal maps, considering all but two of the terminals they serve are either on-street or owned by someone else (GO stations, TTC, or OTU/DC).

I could see a terminal map not being needed if it's only one route like East Gwillimbury or Mount Joy.  MiWay does, but for the GO stations served by only 1 MiWay route (Lisgar, Streetsville and Malton) there are also Brampton Transit and GO Transit.  Even when there are no routes (Dixie GO) directly serving the station they have produced a map to show the transfer points between MiWay and GO Transit. 

As for DRT, if they can't produce the terminal maps themselves, at least ask to borrow the ones from Metrolinx/GO Transit.  I think that would just leave OTU/DC, Oshawa Centre, Harmony and Pickering Pkwy./Town Centre (if it isn't included with Pickering GO's maps).

Strangely GO doesn't produce terminal maps for their various stations and terminals.  Until recently they used to at least list which routes served which platform.  Per their own wayfinding guidelines they have that information available internally.

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1 hour ago, Gil said:

Are YRT passengers trying to get to the subway or to STC?  Presumably a large enough terminal will be built at Sheppard East.  As for the TTC passengers there may be a demand to go to STC, so some routes may continue to be routed to the rebuilt Scarborough Centre station.  I think Sheppard is about as far south as YRT is willing to run into Toronto (Sheppard West/ex-Downsview, Don Mills, hell extend it further west and it lines up with Woodbine Centre).  I don't see GO moving to Sheppard East so any vacated  TTC bays can be reallocated to GO or DRT.  Steve Munro had a post back in 2017 looking at the plans to that point for the subway extension with a 30-bay terminal

Sheppard East would make sense as southern terminal for YRT - I didn’t realize that Scarborough Subway extension was to be extended past current end of SRT.

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I am working on a proposal similar to the Board of Trade report from a few years back that would look at the options of Superlinx which is an amalgamated transit system all around the GTA. My research has hundreds of changes planned to be able to reduce duplication of services and merging routes together as well as working in partnership with GO services to improve express service that goes long distance. Once my report is complete there are many changes that will address DRT/YRT serving the Scarborough extension plus improvements in many other areas, also with a common fare/transfer system. 

Report should be ready in the next 2-3 months and I will post summaries of it here to gauge reaction before I email it to mayors and transit systems across the GTA

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What's the point of a BRT service if you only save 5 minutes on a trip between finch and Newmarket? 

All that money on bus lanes only saves you 5 minutes? 

Maybe they should have an express bus that only stops north of Bernard terminal? Would that save some time? 

They cancelled the GO bus which was able to do it in an hour because they didn't want to fund both services on the same route....but there is no point in having local and BRT if the travel times are almost identical. 

Screenshot_20220217-192123.png

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On 2/16/2022 at 2:38 PM, brianc1981 said:

 

https://www.thestar.com/politics/2022/02/17/liberals-offer-750-million-to-cities-to-make-up-for-transit-fare-shortfall.html

 

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

What's the point of a BRT service if you only save 5 minutes on a trip between finch and Newmarket? 

All that money on bus lanes only saves you 5 minutes? 

Maybe they should have an express bus that only stops north of Bernard terminal? Would that save some time? 

They cancelled the GO bus which was able to do it in an hour because they didn't want to fund both services on the same route....but there is no point in having local and BRT if the travel times are almost identical. 

Screenshot_20220217-192123.png

How many riders were using that go bus?

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12 hours ago, Shaun said:

What's the point of a BRT service if you only save 5 minutes on a trip between finch and Newmarket? 

All that money on bus lanes only saves you 5 minutes? 

Maybe they should have an express bus that only stops north of Bernard terminal? Would that save some time? 

They cancelled the GO bus which was able to do it in an hour because they didn't want to fund both services on the same route....but there is no point in having local and BRT if the travel times are almost identical. 

Screenshot_20220217-192123.png

There is one trip in PM rush that does this from Finch-Newmarket terminal, it runs as a 98E- not sure what the ridership is like on it however https://www.transsee.ca/tripsched?a=yrt&t=1587000&date=2022-02-18

Keep in mind as well that the 98 and 99 run at different headways. The departure of a 98 at Bernard Terminal doesn’t always line up with the arrival of a 99 

Also, Viva Blue A which bypassed Richmond Hill Ctr. has been suspended since March 2020- that saved a bit on travel time 

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16 hours ago, Shaun said:

What's the point of a BRT service if you only save 5 minutes on a trip between finch and Newmarket? 

All that money on bus lanes only saves you 5 minutes? 

Maybe they should have an express bus that only stops north of Bernard terminal? Would that save some time? 

They cancelled the GO bus which was able to do it in an hour because they didn't want to fund both services on the same route....but there is no point in having local and BRT if the travel times are almost identical. 

Screenshot_20220217-192123.png

I’m wondering if it’s due to quite a bit of schedule padding, by car around 10am it’s roughly 40 minutes, viva Blue it’s 1Hr 10. Even if the bus stops at all viva stations 1h 10m seems excessive. 

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59 minutes ago, ZümmyZüm said:

I’m wondering if it’s due to quite a bit of schedule padding, by car around 10am it’s roughly 40 minutes, viva Blue it’s 1Hr 10. Even if the bus stops at all viva stations 1h 10m seems excessive. 

Remember... Between Finch and RHC there are no bus lanes also buses may get stuck between rhc and finch due to alot of traffic.

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2 hours ago, menath said:

Remember... Between Finch and RHC there are no bus lanes also buses may get stuck between rhc and finch due to alot of traffic.

Sure there is. The only part that doesn't have it is between Major Mackenzie and Elgin Mills though Downtown Richmond hill. 

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3 hours ago, menath said:

Remember... Between Finch and RHC there are no bus lanes also buses may get stuck between rhc and finch due to alot of traffic.

Fair enough, been a couple years since I’ve been that way. Still 1+ hour off peak seems excessive 

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