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1 hour ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

Definitely looks like YRT is trying to get rid of the lower ridership conventional bus routes. If they end up discontinuing the 41, who knows which other route(s) with low ridership will be on the chopping block...

That is what I have noticed over the years that conventional routes would be reduced to peak periods and anything outside of peak periods would be shifted to mobility-on-request. To try and better improve financial performance with the cost of operating a conventional route per hour isn't cheap. Serving with smaller vehicles if possible along with operating at weird frequencies that are hard to calculate in some cases. 

From the service plan, they are shifting away from using designated bus stops to a curbed address from a conventional route or select destinations with the use of a mobile app. For those that don't have a smartphone with data access, phoning in is an option except the passenger would not be notified in real-time of any changes compared to the smartphone app. Reminds me of Uber, except the service is offered by York Region Transit and not a private company. 

The stop to stop on-demand version when the conventional routes don't operate definitely isn't handy if the only option is phoning in and 60 minutes in-advance to ensure that the trip can be accommodated. Of course if the mobility-on-request changes are approved, it will be by geographical area instead of bus stops and as I mentioned in the last paragraph, access through a mobile app which is self-serve along with not having to wait long periods of time. 

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22 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

That is what I have noticed over the years that conventional routes would be reduced to peak periods and anything outside of peak periods would be shifted to mobility-on-request. To try and better improve financial performance with the cost of operating a conventional route per hour isn't cheap. Serving with smaller vehicles if possible along with operating at weird frequencies that are hard to calculate in some cases. 

From the service plan, they are shifting away from using designated bus stops to a curbed address from a conventional route or select destinations with the use of a mobile app. For those that don't have a smartphone with data access, phoning in is an option except the passenger would not be notified in real-time of any changes compared to the smartphone app. Reminds me of Uber, except the service is offered by York Region Transit and not a private company. 

The stop to stop on-demand version when the conventional routes don't operate definitely isn't handy if the only option is phoning in and 60 minutes in-advance to ensure that the trip can be accommodated. Of course if the mobility-on-request changes are approved, it will be by geographical area instead of bus stops and as I mentioned in the last paragraph, access through a mobile app which is self-serve along with not having to wait long periods of time. 

Regardless of tech or not this is a dangerous move in terms of transit, yes YRT runs on a privately funded contractors who must work with what they’re given ( Miller, TOK and maybe transdev.. I think they got the boot ) but this isn’t how you run sustainable transit. 
 

over the years they keep cutting service and even prior to covid they were slashing routes to the point where I see YRT purposely jeopardizing their network to promote VIVA and force the feeder routes out. I personally am only familiar with the western portion of their network and many buses that used to be relatively full would have headway’s increased every service change and slowly less and less use it. A prime example I used to always see is promenade ctr have a ttc bus come in full at night and taxis/Uber lining up to take people the rest of the way while the once an hour buses leave empty. 
 

how people of York region are okay with this? I don’t know but I fully expect any non-grid network route to be gone within 5 years 

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6 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

That is what I have noticed over the years that conventional routes would be reduced to peak periods and anything outside of peak periods would be shifted to mobility-on-request. To try and better improve financial performance with the cost of operating a conventional route per hour isn't cheap. Serving with smaller vehicles if possible along with operating at weird frequencies that are hard to calculate in some cases. 

They should honestly consider not slashing routes that fast over low ridership as there are people who need the service and I feel they are left out of the transit planning- as they are the few people who do not have cars in the Region- then you ask why we have so many people in cars or rideshare rather than on the buses. According to that report, cutting the 41 would impact at least 40 people; a better choice would be running 30' buses on that route instead of 40' ones

6 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

over the years they keep cutting service and even prior to covid they were slashing routes to the point where I see YRT purposely jeopardizing their network to promote VIVA and force the feeder routes out. I personally am only familiar with the western portion of their network and many buses that used to be relatively full would have headway’s increased every service change and slowly less and less use it. A prime example I used to always see is promenade ctr have a ttc bus come in full at night and taxis/Uber lining up to take people the rest of the way while the once an hour buses leave empty. 

Honestly they need to find a better way for the fixed route buses to compete with rideshare services (e.g., better timed connections within the system and with connecting systems) as I think those are eating into YRT's market. I also feel that they are trying to cut non-grid routes although they are necessary for commuters and students (especially those travelling outside of rush hour), what they should do is not continuously cut feeder routes without replacing them- that may cause some areas to lose access to public transit (e.g. Nobleton, Kleinburg, Schomberg, Stouffville GO, Gormley GO and Bloomington GO are not connected to YRT's network)

In addition, they should make Mobility on Request contractors use a minibus like their TOK-run operations so they can handle more people per trip/booking (a sedan does not meet accessibility standards but some of those services get them anyways) and try to accommodate multiple bookings where possible

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2 hours ago, York Transit said:

Is there more documents missing? The mccowan express looks interesting.

No. The 7 attachments in the post are what was provided in the survey. Downloaded directly from the survey for record keeping and avoiding the need to go through the survey process which was in 7 parts. The 2020 annual document was one file and pretty much a link to the document would be provided instead due to the 10 megabyte attachment limitation. 

It is a concept map noticing they are using letters for potential corridors. Routes that already exist (300 series and 760) are already accounted for in the map concept. Limited stop express routes are pretty popular focusing more on the transfer points and major stops providing a faster trip. 

7 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Regardless of tech or not this is a dangerous move in terms of transit, yes YRT runs on a privately funded contractors who must work with what they’re given ( Miller, TOK and maybe transdev.. I think they got the boot ) but this isn’t how you run sustainable transit. 
 

over the years they keep cutting service and even prior to covid they were slashing routes to the point where I see YRT purposely jeopardizing their network to promote VIVA and force the feeder routes out. I personally am only familiar with the western portion of their network and many buses that used to be relatively full would have headway’s increased every service change and slowly less and less use it. A prime example I used to always see is promenade ctr have a ttc bus come in full at night and taxis/Uber lining up to take people the rest of the way while the once an hour buses leave empty. 
 

how people of York region are okay with this? I don’t know but I fully expect any non-grid network route to be gone within 5 years 

This is what happens when they wanted to achieve a 50 percent cost recovery ratio in 2007 which was a lot harder than expected. Reduced to 40 percent in 2014 which was the same year tickets and monthly passes increased 10 percent in a single year. Having to figure out how to best achieve that even if it is a hack and slash approach. 

Though I don't support that approach especially since it discourages transit use. Especially with the strange frequencies they have on some routes requiring a mobile app to determine when the next departure is. With $4.25 cash fare or $3.88 with a Presto card, that is a lot to ask for such minimal service that is still remaining. $154 for a monthly pass is really pushing it knowing the revenue is collected regardless of how much usage someone gets from that pass. 

1 hour ago, Joshuamumble said:

They should honestly consider not slashing routes that fast over low ridership as there are people who need the service and I feel they are left out of the transit planning- as they are the few people who do not have cars in the Region- then you ask why we have so many people in cars or rideshare rather than on the buses. According to that report, cutting the 41 would impact at least 40 people; a better choice would be running 30' buses on that route instead of 40' ones

I agree with you on that front considering they can afford to run 30 ft buses instead of the full size 40 ft regular buses to minimize costs on lower volume routes. I understand the cost of labour along with vehicle operations is expensive. At the same time, it would better match the volume received without trying to put a strain on the operating budget. 

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All of them. I enquired years ago when they split a certain route into 2 because I would then need to transfer, and the 2 routes ran at different frequencies so you never made a connection and generally waited for 25-35 minutes. The reply was York was so big and it costs so much to run service throughout the region, that over the next several years routes will get replaced and service will be cut/split on many routes. The idea was to slow down the number of buses from running one part of the region to the other as the trips were to long and ridership is only high in small sections. So those parts where ridership is high could be 12-15 minute frequency and the areas where it’s lower would be 30-45 minutes. But the problem ends up being people that need to go further that then requires a transfer, meaning it could take longer. So of course ridership drops on those routes. 
What’s happened in York region especially is ridership has dropped over time on certain routes so the region has decided to cut service and raise fares to make up for lost revenue. Then more riders leave and then routes get cuts again. I have wanted them to add service on routes and bring in more viva and more express service across the region. I feel that would increase ridership. But also they need to cut the fares down. Even with presto it’s one of the highest in the gta 

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I hate that the region doesnt integrate route schedules

For example, you'll be riding on an Eastbound 85 bus, but the Eastbound 16 bus is scheduled to be 1 minute ahead of the 85
Meaning riders on the 85 will never catch up to the 16 bus which is literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, and be forced to wait 30-40 minutes for the next one

The other route that pisses me off is the 107 and 96 They are always scheduled to operate North on Keele near the same time. Why?!?! Why not coordinate their schedules so that instead of both buses coming together every 30 minutes. Why not have the 107 and 96 depart Pioneer Village roughtly 15 minutes apart so Keele has 15 minute headways between Steeles and Teston?!!? Stupid stupid stupid

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Some observations noted below:

Checked Transsee to see how many buses were operating on Purple since it is the first weekday of the service change. A total of 10 buses between Purple/Purple A operating during peak periods with a combined frequency of every 11 to 12 minutes. Adding an additional bus or two to provide the increased frequency. 

During peak periods pre-COVID, Purple would operate along Highway 7 during peak periods at 10 minute frequency. Pink would cover Purple A between Town Centre and Unionville Go Station via Enterprise at around 15 minute frequency. 

Regarding 20E Jane which if approved, will operate starting in May 2022 until October 2022 on weekends/holidays to accommodate demand to Canada's Wonderland. I have seen they operate with around 8 buses maximum on weekends/holidays. They can afford to run the two additional articulated buses since they operate the same level of service during peak periods to better accommodate ridership along the Jane corridor. 

20E Jane Express is pretty much Viva Silver in disguise minus the proof-of-payment fares, fare collection at stops with a Presto device and ticket vending machine along with rear-door boarding. Silver postponed again which no future date is confirmed. 

27 minutes ago, York Transit said:

I hate that the region doesnt integrate route schedules

For example, you'll be riding on an Eastbound 85 bus, but the Eastbound 16 bus is scheduled to be 1 minute ahead of the 85
Meaning riders on the 85 will never catch up to the 16 bus which is literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM, and be forced to wait 30-40 minutes for the next one

The other route that pisses me off is the 107 and 96 They are always scheduled to operate North on Keele near the same time. Why?!?! Why not coordinate their schedules so that instead of both buses coming together every 30 minutes. Why not have the 107 and 96 depart Pioneer Village roughtly 15 minutes apart so Keele has 15 minute headways between Steeles and Teston?!!? Stupid stupid stupid

Reminds me of Purple/Purple A. You can get 14 minute frequency from Richmond Hill Centre to Town Centre. Town Centre is when the branches split and they reconnect at Highway 7/Kennedy and then the headway becomes a bit uneven. Once waited for a Purple or Purple A whatever came first from McCowan and literally both buses would show up within minutes. Then nothing for 20 minutes due to how Purple A takes a few minutes longer leading to the uneven headway and then turning around. 

I understand some routes are a bit longer, but I think they can budget transfers at major transfer points or connections. Especially for $4.25 or $3.88 with a Presto card, that is a lot of money especially if missing one transfer and having to pay twice. 2 hours of transfer time is a lot, but challenging if taking a conventional route with limited service and paying twice is $8.50 which is a lot considering no day pass option available.

If they want to achieve their 40 to 45 percent cost recovery ratio, they really need to address the major issues that are deterring people from taking YRT. Once heard someone talk about the fancy bus rapid transit infrastructure to attract users, but how will it be supported without the feeder?

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3 hours ago, Tom1122 said:

Today I saw Electric bus #1911 on route 56 so it looks like three routes will be getting electric buses as a result of the new 2100 series XE40s. 

How many does YRT have on order?

From what I have heard, it is two or three units. 2101 already being in revenue service. Another unit was last reported at New Flyer Industries which was a few weeks ago.

About time they add another route noting that the trial has been going on for over two years with 44 Bristol and 55 Davis Drive routes. Gathering data and feedback on another route to determine the workability and round trip time the electric bus can operate before needing to recharge. Due to the limited charging infrastructure available.

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7 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

From what I have heard, it is two or three units. 2101 already being in revenue service. Another unit was last reported at New Flyer Industries which was a few weeks ago.

About time they add another route noting that the trial has been going on for over two years with 44 Bristol and 55 Davis Drive routes. Gathering data and feedback on another route to determine the workability and round trip time the electric bus can operate before needing to recharge. Due to the limited charging infrastructure available.

IIRC, there's a charging station at the Davis/Hwy 404 transit station? If I am right I'm guessing the next route to gain electric buses would be 57 Mulock.

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On 9/14/2021 at 10:00 AM, Tom1122 said:

IIRC, there's a charging station at the Davis/Hwy 404 transit station? If I am right I'm guessing the next route to gain electric buses would be 57 Mulock.

I am pretty sure the only charging station is Newmarket Bus Terminal currently. 

Seeing 56 Gorham-Eagle assigned bus 1911 as of 6:45 PM today. Seems they are shifting them around the local Newmarket routes that have similar running time to 55 Davis Drive.  2101 was on 427 Scared School High School via Newmarket High School on the afternoon trip today.

Unless they are operating only when fully charged and run the trips without recharging which only 44 Bristol and 55 Davis Drive have it built into the schedule. Reading the spec sheet for the XE40 between 174 miles to 251 miles depending on the battery size. Six minutes of overhead charging giving around 1 to 1.5 hours of usage time.

Trying not to run out of juice before heading to the terminal or the yard. 

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1 hour ago, Cimon8000 said:

why is it on a flatbed? returned back to NovaBus?

Could be the same charging issues Brampton was having with theirs.

4 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Old style driver's window.  

Yeah we all knew that for over a year.

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Noticed this week that electric buses are being shifted around to other routes. 33 Wellington and one of the longer routes, 98E Yonge because it finished the trip at Newmarket Bus Terminal earlier today. The only other time it terminates at Newmarket Bus Terminal is 98/99 Yonge late evening for the last three trips of the weekday.

Another electric bus spotted on the 96 Keele-Yonge this week via Transsee.

Considering they are still in trial phase expanding beyond the local routes. Difference with the 98E is that the first stop is Finch Station and it services all local stops after Yonge/Bernard to Newmarket Bus Terminal. A lot of distance to travel from North division to Finch and then back to Newmarket Bus Terminal before heading to the yard.

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1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Noticed this week that electric buses are being shifted around to other routes. 33 Wellington and one of the longer routes, 98E Yonge because it finished the trip at Newmarket Bus Terminal earlier today. The only other time it terminates at Newmarket Bus Terminal is 98/99 Yonge late evening for the last three trips of the weekday.

Another electric bus spotted on the 96 Keele-Yonge this week via Transsee.

Considering they are still in trial phase expanding beyond the local routes. Difference with the 98E is that the first stop is Finch Station and it services all local stops after Yonge/Bernard to Newmarket Bus Terminal. A lot of distance to travel from North division to Finch and then back to Newmarket Bus Terminal before heading to the yard.

The 98E isnt operated by TOK Transit. It really cant go out there.

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1 minute ago, yrt304 said:

The 98E isnt operated by TOK Transit. It really cant go out there.

Apparently 1914 was a stand by / cover bus covering one of the buses on 98. 571 did the 98E this afternoon

1 hour ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Noticed this week that electric buses are being shifted around to other routes. 33 Wellington and one of the longer routes, 98E Yonge because it finished the trip at Newmarket Bus Terminal earlier today. The only other time it terminates at Newmarket Bus Terminal is 98/99 Yonge late evening for the last three trips of the weekday.

Another electric bus spotted on the 96 Keele-Yonge this week via Transsee.

Considering they are still in trial phase expanding beyond the local routes. Difference with the 98E is that the first stop is Finch Station and it services all local stops after Yonge/Bernard to Newmarket Bus Terminal. A lot of distance to travel from North division to Finch and then back to Newmarket Bus Terminal before heading to the yard.

The other "electric bus" that was on the 96 this week was 2101.

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2 hours ago, yrt304 said:

The 98E isnt operated by TOK Transit. It really cant go out there.

Thanks for the correction double checking that 98E is Miller being Southeast Division, not TOK mixing up the 98 which is operated by North Division. 

2 hours ago, Gamer Studios said:

Apparently 1914 was a stand by / cover bus covering one of the buses on 98. 571 did the 98E this afternoon

The other "electric bus" that was on the 96 this week was 2101.

That is what I saw on Transsee. To be honest, I didn't think they would operate on the 96 Keele-Yonge because of how much scheduled time it would take to operate from one end to the other route and back before needing to recharge. Route 50 Queensway is similar having to provide a transfer connection between Newmarket Bus Terminal and Keswick with a similar one-way trip time. 

I have seen it operating on local and school routes operated by North Division. Seems their testing is evolving beyond the original two routes 44 Bristol and 55 Davis Drive. Being much shorter of course unless they are somehow short on regular buses and sending them in when needed.

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On 9/24/2021 at 11:33 PM, York Transit said:

Is it safe to assume 332 has been retired? It hasnt seen service since April. Its still on property though

No....buses get maintenance at TOK Transit and they do go MIA for a period of time. They could also be getting MTO checks

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On 9/24/2021 at 11:33 PM, York Transit said:

Is it safe to assume 332 has been retired? It hasnt seen service since April. Its still on property though

it is not retired. it's probably getting an mto 

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