York Region Transit \ Viva

[GTAmissions1]

Just reading about the 2021 to 2025 business plan. File attached for record keeping purposes.

Reading the section regarding ridership targets. Here is the breakdown for total boardings/hour:

• Viva, base and express routes: 35 passengers/hour
• Local routes: 25 passengers/hour
• Go shuttles and community routes: 15 passengers/hour
• Mobility-On-Request Conventional: 5 passengers/hour

Regarding local routes, 25 passenger boardings/hour is a pretty high figure even during peak periods. Unless servicing a trip generator like retail or school can achieve the figure a bit easier. Outside of peak periods would be a bit more difficult to achieve such volume leading to how some routes are being converted to mobility-on-request. Having to book in advance with a start and end destination via phone or mobile app. 

This is on top of trying to achieve a cost recovery ratio of 45 percent as a goal. Can't imagine how much fares will increase to achieve that percentage or additional routes that will be reduced to mobility-on-request conventional. Currently the proposed fare hike that was supposed to go this year and in 2020 was postponed due to COVID-19.

2021-2025_YRT_Business_Plan_web.pdf

[Shaun]

On 10/28/2021 at 10:55 AM, TransitMotorcoach said:

Another example of YRT planning insanity, the N/B afternoon schedules on 91 and 91A. The trips are timed so loosely, that the bus has to depart Finch Terminal at least 4-5 minutes behind schedule, just to avoid running ahead. For example, the 5:09 pm N/B trip of 91A, gives 17 minutes from Finch to Steeles/Bayview (all that is really needed is 12 at most), and then 8 minutes from Steeles/Bayview to John/Bayview (when 4 is the maximum that is needed). Constantly having to hold at John Street for several minutes and the passengers getting angry because the bus is not moving.... Meanwhile, on 99, with the reopening of all the businesses, it has gotten so congested on Yonge Street around 16th, it is almost impossible to be on time. The traffic signal timing along the section of the VIVA rapidway just makes it worse. 

The Bayview bus would benefit by having better timing of the lights to make a left onto Bayview at Steeles. 

The 99 bus can be faster than VIVA Blue but it only runs once an hour which is a problem. 

What would make sense is to have a Blue bus that runs express from Finch to Richmond Hill terminal, which would cut down on travel times to Newmarket. That trip from Finch should be doable in one hour like when GO used to run the route.  Bringing it back would encourage people to take the bus rather than drive.  You could make it limited express from Finch to Barrie along Yonge Street. 

[TransitMotorcoach]

Update to the South-East Division contract bid process:

https://york.bidsandtenders.ca/Module/Tenders/en/Tender/Detail/b9421957-1eeb-4680-bbf0-91b648a13a43/#Awarded

After reading the most recently posted Addendum #3, and seeing the narrowed down list of the bidders compared to the Plan Takers, looks like those who currently work for TOK will have to start over with a new contractor once the current VIVA contract ultimately expires, as TOK already has West-North Division, and will not be able to hold a second contract as a result.

[Articulated]

5 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

Update to the South-East Division contract bid process:

https://york.bidsandtenders.ca/Module/Tenders/en/Tender/Detail/b9421957-1eeb-4680-bbf0-91b648a13a43/#Awarded

After reading the most recently posted Addendum #3, and seeing the narrowed down list of the bidders compared to the Plan Takers, looks like those who currently work for TOK will have to start over with a new contractor once the current VIVA contract ultimately expires, as TOK already has West-North Division, and will not be able to hold a second contract as a result.

In the vast majority of circumstances where contracts are "flipped", employees with the old contractor are able to transfer into the new company, and there are laws protecting the workers from being fired/constructively dismissed due to contract flipping.

This would be the case for both TOK employees working with Viva, and with Miller Transit employees working out of SE (if Miller does not retain the combined SE/BRT contract). Back in 2015, when operation of Viva switched from Transdev to TOK, the majority of Transdev employees were moved over.

[Shaun]

I also can't understand why the 20 bus runs so slow, the drivers barely get the bus up to 50kmph. 

 

[ZümmyZüm]

3 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I also can't understand why the 20 bus runs so slow, the drivers barely get the bus up to 50kmph. 

 

Excessive run times and pressure to not leave the first stop late from the company, but they won’t fix it because they would then need to add more buses to maintain headways 

[Shaun]

13 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Excessive run times and pressure to not leave the first stop late from the company, but they won’t fix it because they would then need to add more buses to maintain headways 

So basically run the bus slow enough that nobody will use it. 

[TransitMotorcoach]

20 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

Excessive run times and pressure to not leave the first stop late from the company, but they won’t fix it because they would then need to add more buses to maintain headways 

This issue exists on 91 and 91A as well. What I do if I operate a trip with excessive run times is leave the starting point (Finch Terminal or Subrisco for example) 5 minutes behind, and go 40 km/h, hoping that the traffic lights will hold me enough that I would not need to pull over at John Street and still keep going. For us bus operators, it is a lose-lose situation. If we run ahead, we get grief from control centre with a write up, and if we run behind, the control centre dispatchers give us a hard time too. The Region still refuses to fix this, given how they are cheap and don't want to add more buses on the route to maintain the headways but cut down the run times. 

[ZümmyZüm]

On 11/14/2021 at 6:02 PM, TransitMotorcoach said:

This issue exists on 91 and 91A as well. What I do if I operate a trip with excessive run times is leave the starting point (Finch Terminal or Subrisco for example) 5 minutes behind, and go 40 km/h, hoping that the traffic lights will hold me enough that I would not need to pull over at John Street and still keep going. For us bus operators, it is a lose-lose situation. If we run ahead, we get grief from control centre with a write up, and if we run behind, the control centre dispatchers give us a hard time too. The Region still refuses to fix this, given how they are cheap and don't want to add more buses on the route to maintain the headways but cut down the run times. 

100% it’s the same at my workplace, the only difference is if we complain about run times it somewhat will get fixed… a couple signups later but it will happen, from my friends with the YRT I’ve heard their input goes unheard unfortunately which ultimately makes the passengers suffer 

[Articulated]

YRT has an unfortunate tendency to overcorrect runtimes... times will be too loose, so they'll cut too much time off so the route is running tight/late. Then to correct it, they'll add more time than necessary so the route is back to excessive running time. And on and on it goes, every few years or so...

[GTAmissions1]

The Rivis Road Vivastation has been replaced with University Boulevard with the York University Vivastation setup. Tweet attached:

 

Currently Purple A provides continuous service to the Enterprise branch due to COVID-19 including peak periods. During regular service, Purple A would provide service to Enterprise except peak periods which Pink would cover this section up until Unionville Go Station. Green would connect from Warden/Enterprise to Highway 7/McCowan for those needing to reconnect with Purple going east. 

Right now, the Markham campus isn't planned to open until Fall 2023. 

[Shaun]

When is Green going to make a comeback?

[menath]

On 11/23/2021 at 10:09 PM, Shaun said:

When is Green going to make a comeback?

We don't know Atm. But Maybe next month should seneca newham open to 100% capacity and should offices reopen to 100% capacity

Honestly the purple really isn't that busy not surprised that both pink and green are temporarily suspended. I have ridden 8201 on the purple A. Not alot of people on the bus. I would say purple would need to get to viva blue ridership levels or maybe higher if they want to bring back suspended routes

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

6 hours ago, menath said:

We don't know Atm. But Maybe next month should seneca newham open to 100% capacity and should offices reopen to 100% capacity

Honestly the purple really isn't that busy not surprised that both pink and green are temporarily suspended. I have ridden 8201 on the purple A. Not alot of people on the bus. I would say purple would need to get to viva blue ridership levels or maybe higher if they want to bring back suspended routes

Purple never had Blue's ridership levels, and likely never will. Similar to other cities, a portion of lost ridership can be attributed to people afraid to return to transit--some of those people will probably never return, even if offices resume 100 per cent capacity.

[menath]

3 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

I passed by the Aviva office near Birchmount / Enterprise and saw a YRT branded XD40 kneeled and with it's hazard lights on in front of the AVIVA entrance (in their parking lot)

It honestly depends...

Purple line is essential especially for hospital workers. I for one was on a AG300 on the Purple A line and all the seats were taken with no social distancing what so ever...

Yes it depends. Rn Service levels reflect current ridership demand

[yrt1000]

I will say the Viva Purple/Purple A schedules and alternating trips are not the greatest with the inconsistent headways depending where you are waiting along the line (especially during rush hour). So I really would like to see green/pink return for at least rush hour service down Enterprise, so you maintain consistent 10-15 minute service across Hwy 7 on the main Purple branch 

[menath]

11 hours ago, yrt1000 said:

I will say the Viva Purple/Purple A schedules and alternating trips are not the greatest with the inconsistent headways depending where you are waiting along the line (especially during rush hour). So I really would like to see green/pink return for at least rush hour service down Enterprise, so you maintain consistent 10-15 minute service across Hwy 7 on the main Purple branch 

Yea I would like to see pink and green return. The rush hour service prior to this crisis was so much better than the ruhs hour service today

[GTAmissions1]

Here is the list of upcoming changes separated between the December 19th and January 2nd in two separate sections.

December 19th:

Route 50: Adjusted to service The ROC on-request only. On-board, notify the transit operator. At The ROC, phone in with 60 minutes notice so customer service can notify the transit operator to service The ROC.

Route 760: Service between December 20th and New Years Day. Weekday service suspended on December 29th. Hours will match the hours when the mall is open.

Route 90 Leslie and other high school routes/trips: Suspended on December 20th due to the Christmas break and will resume January 3rd to coincide with the resumption of the school year

New Years Eve: Select routes extended until 2 AM

January 2nd service changes:

Viva Purple A: Post Road will be renamed Andre De Grasse Street and Rivis Road renamed University Boulevard 

Route 4 Major Mackenzie: Additional trip westbound at 2:55 PM from Major Mackenzie Drive/Trench Street

Route 8 Kennedy: Schedule adjustment to match afternoon dismissal time at Pierre Elliot Trudeau High School from Kennedy/Major Mackenzie at 2:29 PM instead of 2:24 PM

Route 12 Pine Valley: Schedule adjustment to better improve transfer connections to Maple High school students with an additional departure from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre at 3:15 PM

Route 23 Thornhill Woods: Schedule adjustments to better meet customer demand 

Route 32 Aurora South: To improve connections for St. Maximillian Kolbe Catholic High School students, a new northbound trip will depart Industrial Parkway/Wellington Street (stop 1746) at 2:35 p.m. The 2:33 p.m. southbound trip will depart 5 minutes later from Bayview Avenue/Stone Road (stop 2258) at 2:38 p.m.

Route 54 Bayview: Schedule adjustments noted below

Morning and peak period frequency: Every 25 minutes 

Early evening frequency: Every 65 minutes 

First/last departure northbound from Victoria and Wellington Street: 5:43 AM until 10:28 PM

First/last departure southbound from East Gwillimbury Go Station: 5:32 AM until 9:28 PM

Route 435 school special to St. Maximilian Kolbe School Special will be discontinued since the frequency of 54 will be increased. 

Route 56 Gorham-Eagle: Schedule adjustment 10 minutes earlier to accommodate Sacred Heart Catholic High School with the first departure time eastbound from Newmarket Bus Terminal at 5:50 AM and westbound from 404 Town Centre at 6:15 AM

Route 57 Mulock: Schedule adjustment to better meet bell times at Sir William Mulock Secondary School and connections with 54 Bayview with a new departure eastbound from Newmarket Bus Terminal at 7:28 AM and 2:17 PM westbound from 404 Town Centre 

Route 77 Highway 7: Last departure time adjusted to better connect with the final train arriving at Vaughan Metro Centre. 2:29 AM instead of 2:19 AM on weekdays and 2:20 AM instead of 2:14 AM

Route 82 Valleymede: 2:50 PM trip adjusted to 2:45 PM to better meet the afternoon dismissal times at St. Robert Catholic High School

Route 87 Autumn Hill: School trip moved to new school Route 471 Stephen Lewis School Special via Langstaff Secondary 

Route 90/90B Leslie: Additional trip at 2:39 PM added northbound from Steeles/Don Mills to address overcrowding at St. Robert Catholic High School.

First trips adjusted for Leslie/Highway 7 at 5:25 AM northbound 90 Leslie and 5:08 AM southbound from Highway 7/East Beaver Creek for 90B

Route 165/165F Weston: Schedule adjustments 

Route 760 Wonderland/Vaughan Mills: Adjusted operating hours to better match the mall hours. If the mall is closed on a holiday, then 760 doesn't operate.

[menath]

3 hours ago, GTAmissions1 said:

Here is the list of upcoming changes separated between the December 19th and January 2nd in two separate sections.

December 19th:

Route 50: Adjusted to service The ROC on-request only. On-board, notify the transit operator. At The ROC, phone in with 60 minutes notice so customer service can notify the transit operator to service The ROC.

Route 760: Service between December 20th and New Years Day. Weekday service suspended on December 29th. Hours will match the hours when the mall is open.

Route 90 Leslie and other high school routes/trips: Suspended on December 20th due to the Christmas break and will resume January 3rd to coincide with the resumption of the school year

New Years Eve: Select routes extended until 2 AM

January 2nd service changes:

Viva Purple A: Post Road will be renamed Andre De Grasse Street and Rivis Road renamed University Boulevard 

Route 4 Major Mackenzie: Additional trip westbound at 2:55 PM from Major Mackenzie Drive/Trench Street

Route 8 Kennedy: Schedule adjustment to match afternoon dismissal time at Pierre Elliot Trudeau High School from Kennedy/Major Mackenzie at 2:29 PM instead of 2:24 PM

Route 12 Pine Valley: Schedule adjustment to better improve transfer connections to Maple High school students with an additional departure from Vaughan Metropolitan Centre at 3:15 PM

Route 23 Thornhill Woods: Schedule adjustments to better meet customer demand 

Route 32 Aurora South: To improve connections for St. Maximillian Kolbe Catholic High School students, a new northbound trip will depart Industrial Parkway/Wellington Street (stop 1746) at 2:35 p.m. The 2:33 p.m. southbound trip will depart 5 minutes later from Bayview Avenue/Stone Road (stop 2258) at 2:38 p.m.

Route 54 Bayview: Schedule adjustments noted below

Morning and peak period frequency: Every 25 minutes 

Early evening frequency: Every 65 minutes 

First/last departure northbound from Victoria and Wellington Street: 5:43 AM until 10:28 PM

First/last departure southbound from East Gwillimbury Go Station: 5:32 AM until 9:28 PM

Route 435 school special to St. Maximilian Kolbe School Special will be discontinued since the frequency of 54 will be increased. 

Route 56 Gorham-Eagle: Schedule adjustment 10 minutes earlier to accommodate Sacred Heart Catholic High School with the first departure time eastbound from Newmarket Bus Terminal at 5:50 AM and westbound from 404 Town Centre at 6:15 AM

Route 57 Mulock: Schedule adjustment to better meet bell times at Sir William Mulock Secondary School and connections with 54 Bayview with a new departure eastbound from Newmarket Bus Terminal at 7:28 AM and 2:17 PM westbound from 404 Town Centre 

Route 77 Highway 7: Last departure time adjusted to better connect with the final train arriving at Vaughan Metro Centre. 2:29 AM instead of 2:19 AM on weekdays and 2:20 AM instead of 2:14 AM

Route 82 Valleymede: 2:50 PM trip adjusted to 2:45 PM to better meet the afternoon dismissal times at St. Robert Catholic High School

Route 87 Autumn Hill: School trip moved to new school Route 471 Stephen Lewis School Special via Langstaff Secondary 

Route 90/90B Leslie: Additional trip at 2:39 PM added northbound from Steeles/Don Mills to address overcrowding at St. Robert Catholic High School.

First trips adjusted for Leslie/Highway 7 at 5:25 AM northbound 90 Leslie and 5:08 AM southbound from Highway 7/East Beaver Creek for 90B

Route 165/165F Weston: Schedule adjustments 

Route 760 Wonderland/Vaughan Mills: Adjusted operating hours to better match the mall hours. If the mall is closed on a holiday, then 760 doesn't operate.

Welp still no sign of suspended routes being back. I wonder how purple will handle things when seneca is 100% capacity in winter term

[GTAmissions1]

An update on Cornell Transit Terminal. The opening date has now been pushed to Spring 2022 with the building and concrete works left to complete. Link to the newsletter below:

https://www.vivanext.com/assets/emailAssets/Cornell_projectnews_Fall-Winter_2021/projectnews-cornell-fall-winter-2021

I think it will probably be Summer or Fall of next year reading about how SmartVMC Terminal went through a similar situation where it was originally supposed to open in conjunction with TTC Line 1 extension. Of course, it opened almost two years later on November 3, 2019 due to unforeseen circumstances.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

53 minutes ago, GTAmissions1 said:

An update on Cornell Transit Terminal. The opening date has now been pushed to Spring 2022 with the building and concrete works left to complete. Link to the newsletter below:

https://www.vivanext.com/assets/emailAssets/Cornell_projectnews_Fall-Winter_2021/projectnews-cornell-fall-winter-2021

I think it will probably be Summer or Fall of next year reading about how SmartVMC Terminal went through a similar situation where it was originally supposed to open in conjunction with TTC Line 1 extension. Of course, it opened almost two years later on November 3, 2019 due to unforeseen circumstances.

Ah, I remember when I was a spry young boy waiting for it to open in 2006.

[York Transit]

YRT is using a new automated voice for service updates and mask requirements announcements.

I wouldn't be surprised if they killed off Crystal soon. R.I.P.

The new one sort of sounds like the TTC lady.

[brianc1981]

On 12/10/2021 at 1:54 PM, GTAmissions1 said:

An update on Cornell Transit Terminal. The opening date has now been pushed to Spring 2022 with the building and concrete works left to complete. Link to the newsletter below:

https://www.vivanext.com/assets/emailAssets/Cornell_projectnews_Fall-Winter_2021/projectnews-cornell-fall-winter-2021

I think it will probably be Summer or Fall of next year reading about how SmartVMC Terminal went through a similar situation where it was originally supposed to open in conjunction with TTC Line 1 extension. Of course, it opened almost two years later on November 3, 2019 due to unforeseen circumstances.

I remember that this was supposed to open in 2006 and the original location has changed. Apparently its changed a few different times. I like how it is an 11 bay transit centre but how many buses will actually operate out of there? I also know that with all the service cuts to select routes that YRT has done you could probably run all the routes in 3 bays maybe 4. Considering most of the routes don't run to often.

As for the suspended routes coming back I have heard that it will be spring for the Pink service. Green will not return until the VIVA changes happen, which sounds like 2023 or 2024 now

[GTAmissions1]

5 hours ago, brianc1981 said:

I remember that this was supposed to open in 2006 and the original location has changed. Apparently its changed a few different times. I like how it is an 11 bay transit centre but how many buses will actually operate out of there? I also know that with all the service cuts to select routes that YRT has done you could probably run all the routes in 3 bays maybe 4. Considering most of the routes don't run to often.

Off-hand regarding Cornell Station, 7 bus routes will operate during weekdays. Saturday, it drops down to 5 and 4 on Sunday/holiday.

I don't see them needing that many platforms as you mentioned that the maximum frequency one conventional route would run is probably half an hour max. The timing staggered between routes sharing platforms. Cornell also provisioned in case Durham Region Transit or Go Transit extends service to connect to Cornell Transit Terminal.

The planning for Cornell Transit Terminal took a pretty long time needing a transit hub for Purple and local buses to terminate locally. With plans if funding is approved for bus rapidways along Highway 7 from Birchmount/Enterprise to the terminal. Of course, that is a pretty long shot with other projects in the pipeline that also submitted funding requests. 

[menath]

16 hours ago, brianc1981 said:

I remember that this was supposed to open in 2006 and the original location has changed. Apparently its changed a few different times. I like how it is an 11 bay transit centre but how many buses will actually operate out of there? I also know that with all the service cuts to select routes that YRT has done you could probably run all the routes in 3 bays maybe 4. Considering most of the routes don't run to often.

As for the suspended routes coming back I have heard that it will be spring for the Pink service. Green will not return until the VIVA changes happen, which sounds like 2023 or 2024 now

Ur bottom statement. Source? Since I haven't heard that from any other sources