York Region Transit \ Viva

[YRT1007]

On 2016-11-08 at 7:52 AM, D. DeLarge said:

According to photos, 1431 was unwrapped sometime between October 25th and the 28th.

1431 was unwrapped last week.

 

Side note - 1602 and 1603 are now at Southwest

[Egg-Roll]

On 05/11/2016 at 2:02 PM, YRT1007 said:

Changes always involve a driver Board change. They're not going to put the contractors and us (drivers) through the hassle of a board selection process for a minor schedule adjustment. They will wait for the next board period to do that (IE tomorrow) With that being said, if there are multiple major issues throughout the system, they they will have a special Board period, within the existing Board times.

Tell me one thing then. Do you think the next gen's future in transit matters? Obviously not, i guess your job isn't that important to you, remember without riders you as a bus driver aren't needed. Now I'm not sure in what way those school routes where effected but I'm guessing they kept arriving late. Assuming that, wouldn't it be important to prove to them that you're a responsible system (no laughing, please) and fix the error asap? For a normal rider there's a earlier bus, for school routes it's usually just the one for that route. Imagine always arriving late to class or work due to the only bus that gets you there is always late. School routes/one daily routes if a issue arises should always be fixed fast, doesn't matter if it means that one driver has to leave the yard 5 minutes earlier after leaving 5 minutes later before the change. I personally find 3-4 route adjustments every year is too low for a system as big as yrt, prob worked great 15 years ago but now? 

 

Teachers like your (or most bosses) boss likely won't care you arrived late due to the bad bus scheduling. In grade 10 my morning teacher (about 15 years ago) was so annoyed about people arriving late they had early questions worth 15% of the final grade erased after the national anthem.

 

This along with many other issues is why I'm heavily against the p³ setup being used for anything but garbage collection etc. You can't take a tire off the bus to make back lost money, but if someone throws in a GPS device or computer in the trash you can

Case and point:

One ElDorado (at least) was lazily spray painted inside by a crew member in the north division (I guess was done there, it ends in 1 maybe 851 or 981). Instead of removing the section of rail (about 15 screws) and painting it outside of the bus or covering up the buses interior they just went crazy with it on both sides (left was the worst) causing over spray on the seats (back of) and on the floor.

 

Imo thus far Millar is the only worthy contractor worth keeping (don't venture West much), as I've yet been on a "dirty" one compared to all the others... A few months back a was greeted by a wallet on a viva bus (first bus out, theoretically fresh from the depot) wedged between the seat and the exterior panel (had to of been deliberate). Obvious enough (it's a van not a nova) if one at the depot was even quickly checking for garbage they'd of found it. That's ok right? Right, one off... A few weeks (3-5) later the same bus picks me up same time first bus out, my good ol' friend "wallet" was still there, didn't even looked like it was moved in any way...

Longest gum found on a yrt bus (fairly obvious during basic maintenance) 3 or so years. Ttc? 1 month 224 & 68 routes.

Longest tissue on yrt? A few weeks Idk, after Mr. Wallet I gave up.

 

Basically yrt is a  germaphobics worst nightmare

[YRT1007]

10 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Tell me one thing then. Do you think the next gen's future in transit matters? Obviously not, i guess your job isn't that important to you, remember without riders you as a bus driver aren't needed. Now I'm not sure in what way those school routes where effected but I'm guessing they kept arriving late. Assuming that, wouldn't it be important to prove to them that you're a responsible system (no laughing, please) and fix the error asap? For a normal rider there's a earlier bus, for school routes it's usually just the one for that route. Imagine always arriving late to class or work due to the only bus that gets you there is always late. School routes/one daily routes if a issue arises should always be fixed fast, doesn't matter if it means that one driver has to leave the yard 5 minutes earlier after leaving 5 minutes later before the change. I personally find 3-4 route adjustments every year is too low for a system as big as yrt, prob worked great 15 years ago but now? 

 

Teachers like your (or most bosses) boss likely won't care you arrived late due to the bad bus scheduling. In grade 10 my morning teacher (about 15 years ago) was so annoyed about people arriving late they had early questions worth 15% of the final grade erased after the national anthem.

 

This along with many other issues is why I'm heavily against the p³ setup being used for anything but garbage collection etc. You can't take a tire off the bus to make back lost money, but if someone throws in a GPS device or computer in the trash you can

Case and point:

One ElDorado (at least) was lazily spray painted inside by a crew member in the north division (I guess was done there, it ends in 1 maybe 851 or 981). Instead of removing the section of rail (about 15 screws) and painting it outside of the bus or covering up the buses interior they just went crazy with it on both sides (left was the worst) causing over spray on the seats (back of) and on the floor.

 

Imo thus far Millar is the only worthy contractor worth keeping (don't venture West much), as I've yet been on a "dirty" one compared to all the others... A few months back a was greeted by a wallet on a viva bus (first bus out, theoretically fresh from the depot) wedged between the seat and the exterior panel (had to of been deliberate). Obvious enough (it's a van not a nova) if one at the depot was even quickly checking for garbage they'd of found it. That's ok right? Right, one off... A few weeks (3-5) later the same bus picks me up same time first bus out, my good ol' friend "wallet" was still there, didn't even looked like it was moved in any way...

Longest gum found on a yrt bus (fairly obvious during basic maintenance) 3 or so years. Ttc? 1 month 224 & 68 routes.

Longest tissue on yrt? A few weeks Idk, after Mr. Wallet I gave up.

 

Basically yrt is a  germaphobics worst nightmare

First off, I'm not a TOK driver - so I wouldn't know. All of what you're stating, gives me the impression that you're not an operator and have no idea how the transit industry works.

 

TOK, Transdev, and Miller's sole responsibility in the grand scheme of things are to operate the busses as per the Regions requirements. If the region says Jump, they are expected to Jump. If the region says don't do anything, then they stay put. Obviously the Operators and their respective Contractors provide suggestions and updates to the region, however at the end of the day - it's York Region that is calling the shots with what they want to do.

 

Now going back to your issue on maintenance - because that's apparently what the conversation is about now.

I'm an operator at Southwest (and I have worked for other systems in the past) Both Miller and Transdev have the cleanest busses that I have ever seen, inside and out. I have never had an issue with the cleanliness off the bus - and that's actually a requirement for us. If the bus is not clean - it is not to leave the yard until it is. And the night inspectors ensure that does not happen (Not that it has been an issue) When Veolia first took over the contract - yes the busses were filthy. So we have really stepped up our game. Now my assumption is that you're referring to a TOK North bus. Although I have never been onboard one - I can say that when I pass them on the road (22A and at Seneca King Campus) They are usually dirty on the outside. But you can't put down all the contractors - for the lazy work by one.

 

Southwest Busses were in the same Shape when they had the contract also. (Then known as Tokmakjian / Can-Ar)

[Viva5113]

9 hours ago, YRT1007 said:

First off, I'm not a TOK driver - so I wouldn't know. All of what you're stating, gives me the impression that you're not an operator and have no idea how the transit industry works.

 

TOK, Transdev, and Miller's sole responsibility in the grand scheme of things are to operate the busses as per the Regions requirements. If the region says Jump, they are expected to Jump. If the region says don't do anything, then they stay put. Obviously the Operators and their respective Contractors provide suggestions and updates to the region, however at the end of the day - it's York Region that is calling the shots with what they want to do.

 

Now going back to your issue on maintenance - because that's apparently what the conversation is about now.

I'm an operator at Southwest (and I have worked for other systems in the past) Both Miller and Transdev have the cleanest busses that I have ever seen, inside and out. I have never had an issue with the cleanliness off the bus - and that's actually a requirement for us. If the bus is not clean - it is not to leave the yard until it is. And the night inspectors ensure that does not happen (Not that it has been an issue) When Veolia first took over the contract - yes the busses were filthy. So we have really stepped up our game. Now my assumption is that you're referring to a TOK North bus. Although I have never been onboard one - I can say that when I pass them on the road (22A and at Seneca King Campus) They are usually dirty on the outside. But you can't put down all the contractors - for the lazy work by one.

 

Southwest Busses were in the same Shape when they had the contract also. (Then known as Tokmakjian / Can-Ar)

I honestly agree with this.

Well.... I was commuting on route 22A in about past four years (at that time I used basically least one vehicles from each division.), some of their buses was not that clean or nice. Not sure in mechnical stuff, but because of bus shortage by maintenance I guess, cause sent seven buses to North division recently. I know there is new route 320, but i think they send more than they need.

Hopely it gonna be improved.

Miller generally keep bus clean in my opinion, But onece i rode the bus from them (miller) had a poor cleaness. But they did well on most once. 

[Fandude]

Have anyone see this http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/6940856-york-region-eyes-boosting-yrt-viva-public-transit-bus-fares/?utm_content=buffer76bc4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Why would the Regional councillors do this?

 

[smallspy]

3 hours ago, Fandude said:

Why would the Regional councillors do this?

 

I dunno, maybe because money doesn't grow on trees?

 

Dan

[Viva5113]

Delete

[GTAmissions1]

18 hours ago, Fandude said:

Have anyone see this http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/6940856-york-region-eyes-boosting-yrt-viva-public-transit-bus-fares/?utm_content=buffer76bc4&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Why would the Regional councillors do this?

 

A couple of reasons: 

1. A lot more geography to cover (York Region is pretty spread out and needs to be serviced by transit)
2. Wanting to recover more from the fare box rather than relying on taxpayer subsidy (Viva Blue is the only route that doesn't require subsidy)
3. Providing more service (taking back some of the current TTC operated routes in York Region)
4. Private contractors wanting more money

Though, I think the bigger one is having the private contractors running the service. The public private partnership where the contractor agrees to a fixed price to deliver services. Anything above the fixed price is the responsibility of the contractor and not York Region's problem. Reason why this is done is to provide value to taxpayers and not deal with the service delivery themselves. 

[Egg-Roll]

@YRT1007 it's long so I added a spoiler to save space.  And the forum didn't take my closing of the spoiler properly... 

 

You're right I'm not a operator (I stated i catch buses not drive them), however the basics of the transit industry is very similar to courier services. Fast clean punctual services, and like you they have routes. Biggest difference is you carry the clients, not their toys.

While I don't work in the busing industry, I do however work in a middleman (usually in a outsourcing style) setup. The money made by the company even in the slumps is stupidly high sometimes in the 60% profit range.

the 3 issues with a p3 transit system are: 
1: all contractors are out to make money, for Miller it's possibly just renting out space (assuming they own or rent the land before yrt), so they can afford to be fussy.
2: Transit authority is looking for the best deal (yrt seems to angle towards price over package).
3: Customers usually suffer, my garbage reference holds true there are no cutting corners and keeping everything working as intended in the transit industry (street level).

The bare minimum profit for any service company is 10%. Now ridership last year was about (should be the first link) 22.1 million. To put things simple yrt's operation costs about 200 million ($9 per rider cost) this means at a base of 10% less office workers (assuming 20 mil) that work for the region the approx base profit for the contractors is about 18 million a year between all. The base number is usually 15% in most cases as 10% or less means little or no expansion abilities or issues that might arise that dig in that otherwise cost them more money then they'd make, aka breaking even or barely making money is just not worth it. These numbers also don't include extra redundant staff caused by the contracts either, nor extra costs for delays caused by telephone tag, miscommunication caused by extra staffing etc.

The factor I'm unsure of is who pays who, does (likely based on the mechanics strike a few years ago) the contractor pay for the workers or do the workers get a yrt cheque?

I also never ment to put the southwest with tok as I said I don't venture over there much, last time I took a southwest bus was April route 88, before that 1.5 years ago, route 20. The sad truth is yrt handed viva over to the wrong company, when I knew Miller workers they had little or no complaints about Miller(about yrt is different), the other contractors on the other hand...
Even to this day most of the time I hear complaints from bus drivers about anything from bus issues, pay, and even learning new (to them) routes (now all tok operated, excluding the rare 24 route, or other non ttc routes I might take in Markham, but they don't talk much)

As for the routes like 22A they do go on some roads that could cause the dirt, esp winter. However I won't defend them as many north buses are dirty maybe improper washing stations, not sure.

So while I don't work for a transit authority, from personal experience and schooling I do know how companies in the industry work. Yrt could be saving upwards to $50 million in physical and/or logical time saving (depending on contractors profit and number of redundant staff etc) and could provide. Assuming I'm completely stupid and they'd only be saving only a million dollars that's still a bus a year they could have by removing the contractors (plus cleaner buses everywhere).

Care to prove me wrong? Explain how it costs approx $1000 a day per bus? Assuming each bus runs 12 hours a day that's $84 a hour, drivers get paid about $25-30 if lucky (I think, might be less). This leaves about $50 a hour for maintenance and fuel, based on this  The fuel economy should be about 70L/100km. This means the transit should lose money, however they get fuel at a large discounted price likely about 65% what we would pay. The issue behind these numbers are most yrt buses run 6-8 tops 10 hours a day, and not all 500+ buses are on the road either.

Not to downplay your roll, but usually as a operator the only thing you should care about is job security, this means a safe courteous punctual service. If for what ever reason you're unable to do this due to the region's said practices (esp the safety part, I was on the bus that got plowed into by a snowplow about 2 years ago at mulock, great driver lost their job because of unsafe scheduling leading to unsafe driving), you have a union rep that you can report the issue to if nothing changes.

 

On 12/11/2016 at 2:11 PM, GTAmissions1 said:

 

Though, I think the bigger one is having the private contractors running the service. The public private partnership where the contractor agrees to a fixed price to deliver services. Anything above the fixed price is the responsibility of the contractor and not York Region's problem. Reason why this is done is to provide value to taxpayers and not deal with the service delivery themselves. 

That's the main problem the p3 setup, the region knows no better, or acts as they don't. They make it look nice on paper for tax payers but those who know better know a system this big it doesn't work, it quickly becomes a money bleed... Actually fun fact, Google "tok transit profit", you won't find numbers you'll find something better, a Alberta community canceling toks contract for the exact reasons mentioned here...

[YRT1007]

In Happier news...

 

1605 and 1609 are now on Southwest property.

[Viva5113]

Forget to mention here long time,

I was wait for which artic be the holiday bus. And finally Yesterday i found out 1087 wrapped as holiday bus.

So 1087 and 5124 is holiday bus for this year, and 5124 is dedicated to parade-only bus for now.

[Lex Reid]

Does anyone know the 1600s are gonna enter service?

[leylandvictory2]

1108 will be gone for a while as it was involved in an accident with a safeway tour bus mostly a coach Canada h345

[Egg-Roll]

I'm guessing that was the accident on Yonge and the intersection for hwy 7?

 

On 24/11/2016 at 9:46 AM, Viva5113 said:

Forget to mention here long time,

I was wait for which artic be the holiday bus. And finally Yesterday i found out 1087 wrapped as holiday bus.

So 1087 and 5124 is holiday bus for this year, and 5124 is dedicated to parade-only bus for now.

I thought it was 5142... (saw it last Saturday turning onto Leslie, was too busy with a error on the dash so I could of gotten the numbers wrong)

I also don't recall an artic ever being wrapped, only 1 or 2 40 ft vans. I caught a glimpse of the back of it when it was heading towards Yonge from RHC.

[G.A]

10 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

I'm guessing that was the accident on Yonge and the intersection for hwy 7?

 

I thought it was 5142... (saw it last Saturday turning onto Leslie, was too busy with a error on the dash so I could of gotten the numbers wrong)

I also don't recall an artic ever being wrapped, only 1 or 2 40 ft vans. I caught a glimpse of the back of it when it was heading towards Yonge from RHC.

Seen 1087 in the same wrap as 5142 on Thursday on the Blue. Looks better on the Nova.

[leylandvictory2]

On 11/26/2016 at 8:10 AM, Egg-Roll said:

I'm guessing that was the accident on Yonge and the intersection for hwy 7?

 

I thought it was 5142... (saw it last Saturday turning onto Leslie, was too busy with a error on the dash so I could of gotten the numbers wrong)

I also don't recall an artic ever being wrapped, only 1 or 2 40 ft vans. I caught a glimpse of the back of it when it was heading towards Yonge from RHC.

Christmas wrap.  No.  2 artic were wrapped for the Viva 10th anniversary last year?

[Viva5113]

 

6 hours ago, leylandvictory2 said:

Christmas wrap.  No.  2 artic were wrapped for the Viva 10th anniversary last year?

Yes 5222, 5223 wrapped for #viva10 between August and September 2015.

This is first holiday bus wrapped on articulated bus.

Note that last year holiday buses were two 40ft. 5131 and 5147, 5131 was primarily parade bus, except stouffville one.

 

[Egg-Roll]

Yea, forgot to say less #viva10, they also did RHC for it too, I think I was heading home during a pr event one day there.

Maybe they got a good reception from it. Tho the vans are getting old so testing out wraps now is better then doing it later and messing up, and they did say no more 40 ft fleet for viva too.

The nova has a different style, the van has carolers on the drivers side. I do like the block style but I miss the actual drawings from 2014 and earlier. It actually made it a rolling art portrait that keeps changing (as in you missed something, but the main meaning/theme was gotten right away) rather than a rolling Picasso.

 

Main issue with the block style is you actually have to look at it to appreciate it vs a few seconds and you have the full story.

Test it with their image or the one above vs any pre 2015 versions.

 

[99 Arrow Road]

19 hours ago, Torontotransitfanning said:

Orion V 303 is back in service after disappearing from runs 2 weeks ago.

Been popping up on the real-time map for several days now...

[99 Arrow Road]

48 minutes ago, Torontotransitfanning said:

It's back on transee at least. I never recall seeing it on real time. If it was out I would have seen it. I live along yonge ad I have not seen it nor has it been on the 18 or 1 lately. Caught it today.

Did you know? Transsee uses the exact same data as the real-time map. So whatever is seen on Transsee can also be seen on the real-time map, and vice-versa. So stating that it's only back on Transsee is incorrect.

[Kristopher]

1601 & 1602 have arrived! They are at NORTH Newmarket!

[Kristopher]

Me too, finally something new! Finally!!! haha

[Enzo Aquarius]

Wow, a new 40' in Newmarket, that's very surprising. I think the last new 40' order Newmarket received was back in 2007?

[Kristopher]

I think 2009? 

[Viva5113]

1 hour ago, Kristopher said:

1601 & 1602 have arrived! They are at NORTH Newmarket!

They arrived more than month ago to Southwest division. They got sent to North division as they assigned to north.

And... Can we please post nova deliveries on deliveries thread?

 

16 minutes ago, Kristopher said:

I think 2009? 

40ft 2009 buses in north are all transferred from Miller or Transdev(Veolia).