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I thought it was determined that the TTC doesn't actually use bio-diesel, hence why the bio-diesel stickers are being removed?

It could also be "now that our entire fleet runs B5 we don't need to announce it everywhere". Like why "Powered by Clean Natural Gas" was eventually removed from 93xx and never appeared on the 94xx and 92xx. Ah the good old days.

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It could also be "now that our entire fleet runs B5 we don't need to announce it everywhere". Like why "Powered by Clean Natural Gas" was eventually removed from 93xx and never appeared on the 94xx and 92xx. Ah the good old days.

ttcmech mentioned something a while back that the emission reductions weren't as significant as projected, them producing gunk in the 6V71's wearing them down, and being a bit expensive. Or something along the lines of that, and that's why the TTC stopped using biodiesel, switching to pure ultra-low sulfur diesel.

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@ Toronto Sun:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandg...1/12688406.html

What about multi-storey garages? If such thing can be built to store double-deckers (in HK), one to store 288 Orion VIIs should not be impossible.

I really would like to know why every year we go through the same crap with the UWE System. Every year it goes bonkers at -10 degrees. Then why do we continue to use it and keep paying to fix it? How many more times will we do this until we figure something out? YRT doesnt need UWE systems and they do just fine (I think they use Block Heaters). Why cant the TTC?

I would also like to know which one is fact and which one is fiction. If you turned off the bus over night will it really not start in the morning? With all of the being electric start i would figure this wouldnt be a problem? Or is it a driver creature comfort thing?

With the UWE system working at -20 degrees, does frost really form on the bus windows even though it is being kept warm?

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I would also like to know which one is fact and which one is fiction. If you turned off the bus over night will it really not start in the morning? With all of the being electric start i would figure this wouldnt be a problem? Or is it a driver creature comfort thing?

Not going to answer the first part since I'm not knowledgeable about it, but the second part...

Electric start only gets the pistons in the engine moving (as required for properly starting up a diesel)... it does nothing to actually warm the pistons up, however. The engine itself is still cold, and will begin to absorb the heat being produced by the compression of the air. Diesel fuel is more prone to gelling in cold temperatures (solidifying), which will also reduce the amount of fuel reaching the engine, starving it of fuel and shutting it down.

So no, it really is an issue with the bus not starting in the morning. Driver & passenger comfort is a nice side effect, though.

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Not going to answer the first part since I'm not knowledgeable about it, but the second part...

Electric start only gets the pistons in the engine moving (as required for properly starting up a diesel)... it does nothing to actually warm the pistons up, however. The engine itself is still cold, and will begin to absorb the heat being produced by the compression of the air. Diesel fuel is more prone to gelling in cold temperatures (solidifying), which will also reduce the amount of fuel reaching the engine, starving it of fuel and shutting it down.

So no, it really is an issue with the bus not starting in the morning. Driver & passenger comfort is a nice side effect, though.

(This is not a "fact" but my own personal observations and experiences)

Buses do in fact sometimes have trouble starting in extreme cold temperatures. Even brand new buses for some reason. Even this past weekend apparently YRT (Miller anyways) had quite a number of buses this past Saturday morning that just wouldn't start.. and some of them were brand new! I think Archer explains possibly why quite well.

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(This is not a "fact" but my own personal observations and experiences)

Buses do in fact sometimes have trouble starting in extreme cold temperatures. Even brand new buses for some reason. Even this past weekend apparently YRT (Miller anyways) had quite a number of buses this past Saturday morning that just wouldn't start.. and some of them were brand new! I think Archer explains possibly why quite well.

So then.... why not use Block Heaters?

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So then.... why not use Block Heaters?

they do....the buses are plugged in at night when they don't run them but not sure why it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to...

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So then.... why not use Block Heaters?

Because block heaters are insanely terrible for your electric bill.

The UWE systems in theory were supposed to work better at a lower cost; just because they don't doesn't mean you can just snap your fingers and have block heaters. Capital and operating costs, ya know... which the system can't afford.

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Not going to answer the first part since I'm not knowledgeable about it, but the second part...

Electric start only gets the pistons in the engine moving (as required for properly starting up a diesel)... it does nothing to actually warm the pistons up, however. The engine itself is still cold, and will begin to absorb the heat being produced by the compression of the air. Diesel fuel is more prone to gelling in cold temperatures (solidifying), which will also reduce the amount of fuel reaching the engine, starving it of fuel and shutting it down.

So no, it really is an issue with the bus not starting in the morning. Driver & passenger comfort is a nice side effect, though.

pretty much.

if you crank an engine with good enough compression for long enough it should catch, but battery charge is also compromised in cold

weather.

air starter tanks normally don't have the capacity to wind the engine over long enough, and quite often it gets so cold the internal vanes of

the starter fail to seal, and the air just rushes out the exhaust port without a single revolution.

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they do....the buses are plugged in at night when they don't run them but not sure why it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to...

I'm sure there are occasions, as well, where a driver forgets to plug the bus in. Nonetheless, just like the UWE system, I'm sure absolutely frigid weather still takes its toll on the internals of a bus, even with a block heater.

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I just saw an article about the Residents who live beside, Birchmount Divison complaining about the noise and the sound of the buses in 24Hrs News. I don't think they have a right to complain, since the Birchmount division was there first.

I remember a while back about the condo residents at Kipling station complaining about the noise and fume from the buses next door. Along the same line, you guys did know that the station was there when you moved in. I'm sure it was probably part of the sales pitch. I don't know whatever came of the complaints. I'm sure they won't be thrilled about the station modernization construction that is taking place right now. Once the weather warms up I'm sure they'll go full throttle on the project.

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I remember a while back about the condo residents at Kipling station complaining about the noise and fume from the buses next door. Along the same line, you guys did know that the station was there when you moved in. I'm sure it was probably part of the sales pitch. I don't know whatever came of the complaints. I'm sure they won't be thrilled about the station modernization construction that is taking place right now. Once the weather warms up I'm sure they'll go full throttle on the project.

I believe that buses have now stopped laying over on the street, which was what they were complaining about. I was at Kipling on Monday for the first time in a couple months and I noticed that the TTC is currently increasing the bus driveway at the station so that more buses can lay over along the fence. Before there was only space for 2 or 3 buses to lay over on TTC property without blocking other buses, this construction will probably increase that to about 6-8 or so I think.

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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/76...t-on-video?bn=1

How low can the TTC go?

Any bets here? lol

$20 says that no one outside of management or union brass is really giving a crap about the media hate anymore at the TTC. The first couple of incidents... yeah, probably got everyone's attention. But now where someone goes to the media with a complaint daily?

They're just shrugging their shoulders... it's business as usual for them in a city which has been hostile to transit workers for years.

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I have a strange feeling that ever since the collector picture, riders have found that their complaints will get results if they send them to the media instead of the TTC.

And the media loves milking every penny out of stories, so they keep putting up more stories like this. Stuff like this is fairly regular, but since it's continuing on a trend, it gets mentioned.

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I have a strange feeling that ever since the collector picture, riders have found that their complaints will get results if they send them to the media instead of the TTC.

And the media loves milking every penny out of stories, so they keep putting up more stories like this. Stuff like this is fairly regular, but since it's continuing on a trend, it gets mentioned.

At what point will Metrolinx step in an try to get the TTC to straighten itself out? If complaining to the TTC itself does not generate results and the media gets its fill on reporting on the TTC's problems where else are riders going to turn to for help. A shakeup in commissioners or governance structure after the fall municipal election could yield some interesting results, but it won't be until early next year before any of those changes can bear fruit. Until then it's quite a while for riders to bear with the status quo.

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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/76...t-on-video?bn=1

How low can the TTC go?

Any bets here? lol

Can a driver really get 17 minutes behind schedule (or sit in the same spot on a route for that long) and not catch the attention of Control??? I mean something smells fishy with this complaint to me.

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Can a driver really get 17 minutes behind schedule (or sit in the same spot on a route for that long) and not catch the attention of Control??? I mean something smells fishy with this complaint to me.

Hahahahaha i thought it was Morningside and sheppard at first by the Tim hortons/ Wendy's and that this was the 85 or 85A, cause this is not new to me lol

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In Other News...

(and based on the comments made on the stars site, no matter what people try to do/say/explain/show, the public will always have something negative to say..I give up.)

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc/articl...er-service-test

We give the TTC a customer service test

February 03, 2010

Leslie Ferenc

Riders board the Dundas streetcar at Yonge St. on Feb. 2, 2010. The TTC has asked its staff to improve service.

TONY BOCK/TORONTO STAR

It's been just over a week since TTC chief general manager Gary Webster sent a notice to all employees about the need to step up customer service. That came on the heels of a whack of criticism about how customers are treated.

"None of us is perfect, nor are our customers," he said in his note. "But as public servants, we have a unique and important responsibility to meet if not exceed customer expectations."

I wanted to see if his words of wisdom were working.

Of course, not all TTC workers sleep on the job or get snippy with the public. Still, I'd heard the stories and, quite frankly, got on the system with much trepidation. I hadn't used public transit since the last millennium. I remembered it as hot, crowded, smelly and tough to navigate from A to B.

1:40 p.m.: I ask the ticket collector at Union Station how to get to Yorkdale. After he provides directions, I change my mind and say I'm heading to Yorkville. Without raising an eyebrow at the long line behind me, he patiently revises the directions, then notes I need to show a TTC pass rather than my TD debit card to ride. Hey, they're both green.

Yonge-Bloor is busier. At the ticket booth, I ask directions to the washrooms, only to be told there aren't any. Another TTC worker in the booth notes there is a loo at the end of the platform, but I have to come into the station. She directs me to the right platform. I should have just followed my nose.

At Yonge and Lawrence Ave., I board a bus to get to the University line. The Route 52 driver tells me I'm heading the right way and getting there will take 14 minutes. He then goes beyond the call of duty, helping a passenger get her bulky stroller on board. En route, he points out the tea that's leaking from my bag onto my coat. When a bunch of raucous high school kids gets on, he doesn't raise his voice much to ask them to move back. Seeing I'm an inexperienced rider, he remembers to tell me when we've arrived at Lawrence West even though the automated system has done so.

I ask for a map at the ticket booth. There aren't any, says an apologetic collector. Ditto at Bathurst St., where I get off at the wrong station to catch a bus to Union.

At Spadina station, a supervisor advises me to look for the 510 Union streetcar to get back to where I started. As I'm waiting, a disgruntled rider starts complaining. He's just missed a streetcar, and he rails until the next one arrives a few minutes later, directing his venom at a supervisor who defends the system and then politely suggests the man consider taking a cab, which would better fit his schedule. The supervisor backs away, having defused the situation. I believe I've just witnessed one of those imperfect customers Webster referred to in his note.

The ride down Spadina is actually pleasant. As a driver, one misses the interesting sights along that historic street. Realizing I hadn't asked for a transfer, I scurry back to the driver. "You're all right," he calmly replies. "You don't need one." Ah, the benefits of a monthly pass.

3:45 p.m.: In all, it's been a positive experience, and I may just get brave enough to try the whole thing at rush hour. Ross tells me the rider experience is going to get better now that the TTC is undertaking a customer review process. An advisory panel will consider existing and new customer service initiatives, as well as providing more employee training on customer service. Better communication, including a 24/7 complaints and response line, is also in the works.

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$20 says that no one outside of management or union brass is really giving a crap about the media hate anymore at the TTC. The first couple of incidents... yeah, probably got everyone's attention. But now where someone goes to the media with a complaint daily?

They're just shrugging their shoulders... it's business as usual for them in a city which has been hostile to transit workers for years.

It's funny, the comments regarding this latest "scandal" seem too fall into the enough is enough category. I think many people are going to start to get tired very soon with these jr. journalists doing there best undercover John Stossel impressions. Cruisading against these so called injustices. After awhile these people do look as though they are busybodies and complainers. My old journalism professor compared it to those overly letigious folks in the states that sue at the drop of a hat, more for the brief fame than the money. Canadians are a bit more cynical and many can smell a witchhunt and will move attention to other things.

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i cant stand these aholes who film and take pictures of TTC employees doing bad things, it makes us look bad and gets the drivers more paranoid!

Same here! Last I checked, its a human right to have necessities of life, one of those being access to a bathroom. :P

. . . and from what I saw of the video, he was only gone 6 min but was held up by the person bitching him out!

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/76...t-on-video?bn=1

How low can the TTC go?

Any bets here? lol

Nothing will happen as EVERYONE is entiltled to use the washroom. All everyone knows he could have had "the runs"! :P

( Actually I dont think the driver cares one way or the other as he can retire at anytime as he has 30+ years on!)

If you ask me, I think Brad Ross should be fired for saying things before getting the FULL story first!. . and telling evryone to take pics whenever they can!

PLLEEEEAAAAZZZZEEEEE!!!! Not that its hard enough to take shots in this hobby! Now every driver is gonna be on edge, thinking that you are goinna report them for picking their nose! :)

(In case anyone was curious, that streetcar driver was only stopped @ Queen/Spadina for 2 min, according to CIS that logs vehicle movement. The driver was asked by the supervisor to "ease back", and the driver used the ATM as there was no line up at the time. - You noticed in that instance that no pics were taken in a line up! and besides, you think a streetcar can sit for 7 min at a downtown intersection without causing a major traffic jam?!)

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