TTC in the news

[Turtle]

21 hours ago, TransitMotorcoach said:

Drastic times often times call for drastic solutions. When the employees and normal riding public is in complete danger on transit because these vagrants are just out of control like feral savage beasts, it calls for a sledgehammer to be dropped in order to halt the madness and restore order, trust, and safety. 

Consequences, we need some real consequences. There aren't any for someone who already has nothing to lose. We used to have the Cherry Beach Express for people with nothing to lose, but we can't do that anymore since things get taken to the extreme and the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. We end up with people freezing to death in Saskatchewan on "Starlight Tours" in the middle of winter if the people in power and control decide what group of people are unsavoury. 

 

There is a balance, but the way Toronto has set it up over the past few decades has it's own set of consequences that we have to face today. Public Transit is a means to get from A to B, not a way to keep warm or camp out for the night. Toronto attracts (as well as other big cities)  people that need help, since the boonies don't have the level of services and support that the big city has. The federal and provincial gov'ts should be stepping in to help with this. It used to be that people would be given tokens to ride public transit as part of public assistance, the intention was to give them a way to run errands or to travel to a job interview or something, Public transit is a human right and all that. What actually happened was they would sell their tokens, and sneak in the system anyways. People didn't notice it or care so much back then since it wasn't really bothering anybody, the homeless people that used the system to keep warm or catch some sleep were invisible to the rest of us, because they didn't cause a problem for the most part. It was a good program with good intentions to help deal with an overburdened shelter system that wasn't being properly supported by upper levels of gov't.

 

The pendulum is going to swing in the other direction one day. Most people are generally good people, and some of them will get fed up and try to take matters in their own hands. Hopefully they won't ruin themselves legally and financially in the process.

[John Oke]

On 1/26/2023 at 7:10 AM, Bus_Medic said:

He’s going to be in prison with the Donald one of these days 

[nfitz]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:30 AM, T3G said:

What are you imagining, that after the crime rate has been flattened the dictator you are proposing will willingly let go of their powers? When and where in history has this ever occurred?

Spain? Took a long time though to slowly let go of powers.

[Bus_Medic]

1 minute ago, nfitz said:

Spain?

Sure, if you consider the dictator’s death “willingly” stepping down.

[MCIBUS]

So the Toronto Police will make more of a presence on the TTC. That's good, it may help but in all honesty the police can't be on every subway car, street car or bus 24/7/365. Some incidents of some sort will still happen.

The real issue here is $$$$$$!! How much money are governments willing to put up and how much are tax payers willing to pay to solve the issue of mental illness. Yes it's going to cost millions on pawn millions to hopefully solve the problem. Until governments are willing to truly pay the cost of treating the issue of those effected of some type of mental illness or other issues, society will keep on getting worst, until everyone is willing to put up $$$ to solve it. If not you will see incidents happen be it issues on the TTC, mass shooting's, etc. 

 

I'm not a doctor or know very little on this topic.

[nfitz]

2 hours ago, Bus_Medic said:

Sure, if you consider the dictator’s death “willingly” stepping down.

Years before Franco died, he'd appointed King Juan Carlos I as his successor. And at first the king had the same powers as Franco. The government didn't change, and the following year , the King personally selected the new PM, a well known fascist.

Who then, with the King, started the transition to democracy. The King transitioned from a dictator to a constitutional monarch. And the fascist PM became democratically elected.

It was all very peaceful - except for the 1981 attempted military coup ... and even then, no one died. It was a very seamless and ordered transition.

Compare to the 1930s fascist dictatorship in Portugal - which ended suddenly with the 1974 military coup, which then lead to a relatively quick transition to democracy.

Not that I support any of this. But there are examples of dictators letting go of powers. And in the last few years, Singapore has been slowly heading down that path - though isn't there yet.

 

[Ed T.]

I don't think that "mental illness" should be the catch-all here either.

Many of my younger co-workers have extra weekend jobs. Yet they live at home, or share some apartment or crappy rental house with three or four or whatever other young people. None of them can afford their own place, never mind buy a home.

Yet I'm happy taking lieu time over pay when I do overtime. My mortgage is almost paid off. I don't have to think about taking a delivery job on the weekends, or strapping on an Uber Eats box and scurrying around downtown.

Of course, I'm making about the same as my co-workers (a little more, I'm up a step or two). If I didn't own a house (with biweekly accelerated payments still under $500) I couldn't afford to live in this city, same as my co-workers.

In contrast to today, when I got a not-especially-good-paying full time contract job back in the '80s, within four months I had saved up enough money to put down first and last on a real one-bedroom apartment (600 sq ft about) and buy furniture to put in it. By the end of a year and a half, I purchased a car with cash. It was the least old car I have ever purchased--a mere seven years old.

Today, in a much richer economy, entry level jobs give no financial security or even an ability to afford basic housing.

If you are wondering how this is possible, well the ones who have the money have lots of it. They are tearing down $2 million mansions to put up $5 million mansions. It's not just Rosedale and Forest Hill and The Bridle Path. Try Dempsey Crescent or Warwood Road.

What I do find amusing is how many of these new supermansions are done up as Lois XVI style manor-châteaux. Do they not teach history in elite private schools any more? Have these Masters of the Universe forgotten that little incident that started on 5 May 1789?

[Ed T.]

And to add, now that I think about it, all the politicians like John Tory who start talking about more money needed (from someone else, of course) to promote mental health to stem this tide of crime depravity etc....

It's like they are saying "Unprovoked violence on the streets and buses!? It's not the cops or more laws we need--look at the elephant in the room! Mental health! We gotta do something about mental health!"

Which is correct as far as it goes. But it totally ignores the pride of lions that have driven the panicking elephant to stampede around the room in the first place. And, in my opinion, THAT'S caused by all the issues inherent in what some people like to term "late stage capitalism". And this avoidance is totally deliberately done, in my estimation. Especially because of my take on the essential nature of John Tory.

[38 Highland Creek]

7 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I don't think that "mental illness" should be the catch-all here either.

Many of my younger co-workers have extra weekend jobs. Yet they live at home, or share some apartment or crappy rental house with three or four or whatever other young people. None of them can afford their own place, never mind buy a home.

Yet I'm happy taking lieu time over pay when I do overtime. My mortgage is almost paid off. I don't have to think about taking a delivery job on the weekends, or strapping on an Uber Eats box and scurrying around downtown.

Of course, I'm making about the same as my co-workers (a little more, I'm up a step or two). If I didn't own a house (with biweekly accelerated payments still under $500) I couldn't afford to live in this city, same as my co-workers.

In contrast to today, when I got a not-especially-good-paying full time contract job back in the '80s, within four months I had saved up enough money to put down first and last on a real one-bedroom apartment (600 sq ft about) and buy furniture to put in it. By the end of a year and a half, I purchased a car with cash. It was the least old car I have ever purchased--a mere seven years old.

Today, in a much richer economy, entry level jobs give no financial security or even an ability to afford basic housing.

If you are wondering how this is possible, well the ones who have the money have lots of it. They are tearing down $2 million mansions to put up $5 million mansions. It's not just Rosedale and Forest Hill and The Bridle Path. Try Dempsey Crescent or Warwood Road.

What I do find amusing is how many of these new supermansions are done up as Lois XVI style manor-châteaux. Do they not teach history in elite private schools any more? Have these Masters of the Universe forgotten that little incident that started on 5 May 1789?

Please let's go back on topic.

 

In other TTC news, the TTC is proud to celebrate the Year Of The Rabbit for 2023.  Click on this link for the deets.

[2044]

54 minutes ago, 38 Highland Creek said:

Please let's go back on topic.

If you want the TTC and city to be safe, don’t ignore that post.

[Bus_Medic]

[Shaun]

On 1/26/2023 at 8:41 PM, MK78 said:

It appears the daily attacks on passengers & TTC staff that have been publicized in the past week have finally flipped a switch on the authorities.

https://www.cp24.com/news/dozens-of-police-officers-to-be-deployed-across-ttc-amid-wave-of-violence-1.6247425

The solution is not just to increase police presence. I don't have any exact figures but I would say about 80% of the people who cause problems have a combination of Homelessness, mental illness and drug addiction.

We need to fix these problems in order to make the situation better. The perception that shelters are not safe (which may be true), better support for homeless people so that they don't sleep on the TTC because it's warm.

Often a large majority of these people are homeless due to mental illness. 

Do you know how hard it is to get someone who has a mental illness committed to a facility? And they have no obligation to take their medication if they choose not to. They have to be either a direct threat to someone or themselves, and only then will they be committed, and once they leave the facility they can stop taking their meds and live on the street.  Disability payments require a bank account and to fill out a bunch of paperwork that is hard to understand.

Do you see how easy it is to fall through the cracks? Until we fix these problems we will continue to have these problems, and as the subway gets extended north it will become a problem for York region as well.

 

[Downsview 108]

 

On 1/25/2023 at 6:14 PM, TransitMotorcoach said:

It already is sodom and gomorrah. Babylon.

 

It has reached the point of where dictator-type solutions are drastically needed, to be honest. Giving those drug-addicted and mentally ill vagrants the freedom to just roam around and act crazy is only making the problem worse each day. Institutionalize all of them, by force if needed, and drop the sledgehammer on those who engage in deviant-like behavior. 

 

Toronto needs someone like Rudy Giuliani to finally put an end to this out-of-control crime tsunami. 

SMDH

[MK78]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

The solution is not just to increase police presence. I don't have any exact figures but I would say about 80% of the people who cause problems have a combination of Homelessness, mental illness and drug addiction.

We need to fix these problems in order to make the situation better. The perception that shelters are not safe (which may be true), better support for homeless people so that they don't sleep on the TTC because it's warm.

Often a large majority of these people are homeless due to mental illness. 

Do you know how hard it is to get someone who has a mental illness committed to a facility? And they have no obligation to take their medication if they choose not to. They have to be either a direct threat to someone or themselves, and only then will they be committed, and once they leave the facility they can stop taking their meds and live on the street.  Disability payments require a bank account and to fill out a bunch of paperwork that is hard to understand.

Do you see how easy it is to fall through the cracks? Until we fix these problems we will continue to have these problems, and as the subway gets extended north it will become a problem for York region as well.

 

But increased police presence is needed in the interim while they actively try to work out how to deal with the massive drug addiction and mental health problem.

We need to change laws so those people can be committed for treatment, and be monitored that they taking their meds, same like paroled prisoners check with their parole officers and do drug tests. A drug test will show if you're taking your meds and are not doing drugs. There's nothing inhumane about it.

But once they're out and clean, they have to have a willingness to stay that way and sure, they have to be offered affordable place to live and some means of earning money that isn't begging. There is plenty of work even for those who are unskilled. We import foreign workers and bring in thousands of refugees, and for what? Plenty of people here that need work  and a help getting their life back on track after being rehabilitated.

And we need secure facilities, not a joke like CAMH where people walk out all the time. Just google "missing elopee" you will find articles or police releases of people found not criminally responsible for violent and/or sexual attacks who are bound by a warrant of committal go missing from these facilities all the time.

[81-717]

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

They have to be either a direct threat to someone or themselves, and only then will they be committed

I think the shitshow we repeatedly keep hearing about on the news more than qualifies as a direct threat to public safety.

[TransitMotorcoach]

7 hours ago, 81-717 said:

I think the shitshow we repeatedly keep hearing about on the news more than qualifies as a direct threat to public safety.

Interestingly enough, when covid was out of control, the premier of Ontario did not have any hesitation in declaring a state of emergency. With the current situation at the TTC, I think that the province declaring a state of emergency in Toronto would be a good idea. Clearly John Tory and most of Toronto city council are just completely inept and stupid , and just want to keep sweeping the violent attacks under the rug. It is time for the province to step in, say enough is enough, and make the tough decisions necessary to put a stop to the threat to public and TTC employee safety.

 

Doug Ford says that he is about law and order. Time for him and his MPPs to actually implement it.

[T3G]

8 hours ago, 81-717 said:

I think the shitshow we repeatedly keep hearing about on the news more than qualifies as a direct threat to public safety.

And, what, how are you going to identify someone is a threat to public safety beforehand? You can't arrest someone for a crime they haven't yet committed, though I'm sure some of our more authoritarian minded friends are just foaming at the mouth at the thought.

[Ed T.]

12 hours ago, MK78 said:

But increased police presence is needed in the interim while they actively try to work out how to deal with the massive drug addiction and mental health problem.

After the 9/11 hijackings, as far as I can recall, they placed armed Air Marshals on every flight. You'd pretty much need to do that on every TTC vehicle and T1 subway car to be "safe". After all, even these anti-social deviants may be aware enough to move on from a vehicle with police presence to one that does not have it, and do their anti-social deviant acts there.

10 hours ago, 81-717 said:

I think the shitshow we repeatedly keep hearing about on the news more than qualifies as a direct threat to public safety.

The news is the news and the newspeople are smelling blood and baying on the trail to get audience and clicks. Someone a couple of days ago posted a "purse snatching at Broadview station" as an example of the rampant lawlessness. Well, yes, that's lawless, but it's not like purse snatchings are something new or anywhere close in seriousness to assault. But hey, more shitshow for clicks.

[MK78]

1 hour ago, Ed T. said:

The news is the news and the newspeople are smelling blood and baying on the trail to get audience and clicks. Someone a couple of days ago posted a "purse snatching at Broadview station" as an example of the rampant lawlessness. Well, yes, that's lawless, but it's not like purse snatchings are something new or anywhere close in seriousness to assault. But hey, more shitshow for clicks.

The woman was pushed down the stairs and to the ground. Thats pretty violent and luckily she wasn't injured. An older person may not fare so well, or even any person that hits their head directly on the ground as a result of a violent "purse snatching" as you call it.

The more these types of attacks are ignored, the more they will be exploited by the criminals.

[Shaun]

15 minutes ago, MK78 said:

The woman was pushed down the stairs and to the ground. Thats pretty violent and luckily she wasn't injured. An older person may not fare so well, or even any person that hits their head directly on the ground as a result of a violent "purse snatching" as you call it.

The more these types of attacks are ignored, the more they will be exploited by the criminals.

But also do you want to be the one who hit the yellow strip and hold up 200 people on your train as well as another 500 people just because some crazy dude is yelling on the train? When is it justified to hit the yellow strip? When someone is assaulted? Verbally? Physically? Once? Twice? 

What if the guy ran away, are they going to fine you for crying wolf? 

Those are grey areas 

[nfitz]

19 hours ago, MK78 said:

But increased police presence is needed in the interim while they actively try to work out how to deal with the massive drug addiction and mental health problem.

Is it? The impact may be marginal - and where are they withdrawing police from to do this?

[Xtrazsteve]

Cops could just temporary leave their post if they are needed nearby. I don’t see this as gluing them to the system 

[Shaun]

51 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Is it? The impact may be marginal - and where are they withdrawing police from to do this?

Overtime shifts and volunteers.

[Someguy3071]

I had a pair of cops ride on my bus last night. That was a surprise. They stayed on for about 20 minutes then got off to take a bus on another route. 

[WoodbineSecondExit]

There are deeper societal issues at play but it doesn't mean we have to tolerate crack or meth usage on trains or streetcars.