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13 hours ago, MK78 said:

Thats pretty bold the TTC claiming she shouldn't have been travelling alone...

Not a good thing to be telling the public.

Sorry, not trusting a cbc journalist, I would like to see what that 7 page statement of defense actually says.

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On 6/12/2022 at 12:49 AM, Turtle said:

 

You really believe the spin the media puts on this stuff? It's easy to see she was standing too close to the edge. Not her fault for getting pushed, but she could have prevented it by not standing so close. Everybody should be free to stand as close to a 800,000lb vehicle moving at 50km/h without harm, but why do so? Why take that risk with your personal safety? Just to be the first one on to get that coveted seat covered in stale urine?

 

2 lawyers, $1M lawsuit, how much will she end up with after costs? Not worth it.

Careful. As we discussed over in Streetcar News, streetcars on The Queensway have to crawl through the intersection because some cars might turn--illegally and against the signals--into their path. Rather than saying "they should have not turned, their left turn signal was red!" the TTC put in operational limitations on the streetcars.

A smart lawyer would quote that subway trains are "800,000 lb vehicles travelling at 50 km/h" when they enter the station.

Then they dredge up some pictures of overcrowded platforms. BlogTO is a good source. Here is an actual article on safety concerns over overcrowded platforms: Crowded subway platform shows TTC needs to do more to make transit safe (blogto.com)

Therefore, the TTC is negligent in not putting in operational limitations to make passengers on TTC platforms safe.

Settlement out of court.

Subways to enter all stations at max 10 km/h.

There you go.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ed T. said:

Careful. As we discussed over in Streetcar News, streetcars on The Queensway have to crawl through the intersection because some cars might turn--illegally and against the signals--into their path. Rather than saying "they should have not turned, their left turn signal was red!" the TTC put in operational limitations on the streetcars.

A smart lawyer would quote that subway trains are "800,000 lb vehicles travelling at 50 km/h" when they enter the station.

Then they dredge up some pictures of overcrowded platforms. BlogTO is a good source. Here is an actual article on safety concerns over overcrowded platforms: Crowded subway platform shows TTC needs to do more to make transit safe (blogto.com)

Therefore, the TTC is negligent in not putting in operational limitations to make passengers on TTC platforms safe.

Settlement out of court.

Subways to enter all stations at max 10 km/h.

There you go.

 

 

Sorry to break it to you, but they already have this in place in a slightly different form. In certain circumstances they call for this at a station, but the trains come to a full stop before entering, and enter only when it is safe at no more than about 30km/h. Usually overcrowding, but you get it with security incidents too. There has been a handful of current and ex employees calling for a speed reduction entering all subway stations for a long time.

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12 hours ago, Turtle said:

Sorry to break it to you, but they already have this in place in a slightly different form. In certain circumstances they call for this at a station, but the trains come to a full stop before entering, and enter only when it is safe at no more than about 30km/h. Usually overcrowding, but you get it with security incidents too. There has been a handful of current and ex employees calling for a speed reduction entering all subway stations for a long time.

Certain circumstances being the key phrase in your post. There is nothing mandating a slowed down speed into the station under regular circumstances, unlike streetcars which still have to follow all these silly regulations even at 4 am when there is precious little traffic to worry about.

There are certain circumstances under which it makes sense to restrict vehicle speed, like during overcrowding conditions on platforms, bad track conditions, high amounts of intoxicated pedestrians milling about uncomfortably close to the roadway, etc. The streetcar regulations are more like having such rules in place to deal with a theoretical possibility of such circumstances existing.

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21 minutes ago, T3G said:

Certain circumstances being the key phrase in your post. There is nothing mandating a slowed down speed into the station under regular circumstances, unlike streetcars which still have to follow all these silly regulations even at 4 am when there is precious little traffic to worry about.

Yes, but Ed was saying that because I was agreeing that a 800,000lb moving vehicle is a danger to the general public that lawyers may end up forcing the TTC to implement extra safety measures in the subway. The media loves to mention platform screen doors, but the people in charge say it isn't technically possible in the near future and costs a ton of money which they don't have, so the cheapest solution to preventing some injuries and accidents would be to slow down the subways in the stations at all times, just like they make the streetcars do in the intersections.

 

Slight reduction in system capacity, slightly longer travel time end to end (less than 10 minutes on a >1h trip time), possible reduction in serious injuries and fatalities. Reductions in shutdowns while they clean up or investigate injuries. A clean jump where it was clearly intentional usually takes around 45minutes before service can resume. If it is misfortune or murder/manslaughter, it can take 3hours or more. This last one we have been referring to, the subway was shut down in that section for the remainder of the evening. I'm sure someone could argue that service quality and reliability would improve with slower speeds in the stations.

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The problem with the current system of calling for slower speeds when there is a potential problem is that someone has to recognize a potential problem and communicate it with Transit Control. They then have to communicate this with the vehicles. Takes too long and can be unreliable. 

 

How would you recognize that someone is about to attempt murder on someone else before it happens and in enough time to slow down or stop the vehicles. Even if you hit the power cut button, despite what Mr. Green said in an interview, it will not stop a train. 

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The problem is that people standing too close to the platform edge is nothing new or unusual. Crowded platforms, nothing new or unusual. Suicides, unfortunately, nothing new and I presume not that unusual. People being pushed is unusual, but this is not the first case. And the sightlines for ops entering a station are never too good, if not terrible at some.

So, any op who is cross-examined at a trial will probably agree to the above, and I'm sure any lawyer can find an ex-op, ideally retired due to PTSD from a gruesome incident, to give testimony.

In addition, entirely correct, we can't anticipate all murders (scary music and revving chainsaws are giveaways in movies, of course), we can't anticipate someone falling, being pushed, or jumping onto the tracks.

Finally, who determines that there are special circumstances, and trains should enter at reduced speed? I assume those are standing orders after a service suspension, but are those "station ambassadors" or whatever they're called monitoring the platforms all the time?

I'm not saying that I want subways to stop before entering each station. To be honest, I recall with nostalgia the days before station/stop announcements, beeps, bloops, and ding-dongs. But, in the absence of platform edge doors, speed restrictions may come--not necessarily from the trial, a civil case is not the vehicle for that, but from the TTC trying to cover its ass.

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40 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

Finally, who determines that there are special circumstances, and trains should enter at reduced speed? I assume those are standing orders after a service suspension, but are those "station ambassadors" or whatever they're called monitoring the platforms all the time?

Somebody reports something to someone, who then calls someone else who then makes a radio broadcast calling for it. You would hear it all the time back when the radios were analog

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1 hour ago, Wayside Observer said:

Woman lit on fire at Toronto subway station, man in custody, police say

And again.  I'm really starting to wonder whether the frequency of violent incidents on the TTC has ticked upward sharply recently and why, or if it's increased reporting that makes it look that way.

I hate to ask, but did she know the person who did this to her?

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1 hour ago, Wayside Observer said:

Woman lit on fire at Toronto subway station, man in custody, police say

And again.  I'm really starting to wonder whether the frequency of violent incidents on the TTC has ticked upward sharply recently and why, or if it's increased reporting that makes it look that way.

Edmonton and Calgary LRT systems have recieved a lot of negative press due to an increasing number of issues. I read an article of New York about similar problems. Safe to say it is all around. 

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The guy apparently ran down the subway tracks after and hopped a fence and was arrested shortly after by police. 

It'll be interesting to hear more details as there really have been none whatsoever. 

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3 hours ago, Ed T. said:

BlogTO has an update on the attack on the woman at Kipling station. It doesn't seem optimistic.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/07/latest-update-woman-set-on-fire-ttc-kipling-station/

In the BlogTO tradition, the picture is of an 8000-series Orion VII that could have been the venue for at least the start of the incident....parked at Long Branch loop.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/woman-lit-on-fire-kipling-station-dead-1.6511371

CBC now reporting that she has died

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3 hours ago, Ed T. said:

BlogTO has an update on the attack on the woman at Kipling station. It doesn't seem optimistic.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/07/latest-update-woman-set-on-fire-ttc-kipling-station/

In the BlogTO tradition, the picture is of an 8000-series Orion VII that could have been the venue for at least the start of the incident....parked at Long Branch loop.

 

It did happened on a 8xxx series bus though IIRC so BlogTO is right in that sense.

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5 hours ago, Ed T. said:

BlogTO has an update on the attack on the woman at Kipling station. It doesn't seem optimistic.

https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/07/latest-update-woman-set-on-fire-ttc-kipling-station/

In the BlogTO tradition, the picture is of an 8000-series Orion VII that could have been the venue for at least the start of the incident....parked at Long Branch loop.

 

That incident bus was parked in the 112 West Mall bus bay.

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