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5 hours ago, nfitz said:

Personally, I'd say that the overkill on cleaning poles, etc. probably has little impact given the disease is airborne - but I have hard time believing that's actually happening at terminals, given how much garbage I see in streetcars ... that and I spend enough time at the 506 Main terminal, and have never seen a soul.

for the 506 you would have to wait at High Park Loop I think. Not really a cleaning, more of a misting with a Hydrogen Peroxide solution. Even the litter on board gets sanitized by the spray. The garbage problem is a people problem, not a ttc problem, it's the passengers who leave it. The vehicles could get swept out once a trip, which would help, but you would still have people treating the vehicles like their personal garbage or toilet.

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6 hours ago, nfitz said:

That's the kind of backward TTC thinking that doesn't get things fixed and improved.

The easiest way to improve the litter situation is for everybody to stop littering. People rationalize their piggish behaviour when they add to the litter. Most people just don't care. Backwards TTC thinking is allowing people to eat on the vehicles. Backwards TTC thinking is having a bylaw with sections about feet on seats, expectorating, ..., and not enforcing it, or not being able to enforce it past a simple trespass charge.

 

Have you seen them clean the subway cars at the ends? Most of those workers do a really good job for the amount of time they have, most of the litter gets picked up. Any biohazards are cleaned and sanitized. They do a mop down of random cars later on when it isn't so busy. Give it 20 minutes and it's dirty again. Not from people dragging salt or mud in on their shoes, but fast food trash, coffee spills, spit on the floor, ... It would be nice if the buses and streetcars would be more frequently deep cleaned, but I doubt you would notice once the vehicle was out in service for a few trips on a busy route.

 

It doesn't help that the Hydrogen Peroxide solution the contractor is misting with makes every reflective surface look grimy. Takes forever to polish up a window that they have sprayed.

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1 hour ago, Turtle said:

The easiest way to improve the litter situation is for everybody to stop littering. People rationalize their piggish behaviour when they add to the litter. Most people just don't care. Backwards TTC thinking is allowing people to eat on the vehicles. Backwards TTC thinking is having a bylaw with sections about feet on seats, expectorating, ..., and not enforcing it, or not being able to enforce it past a simple trespass charge.

 

Have you seen them clean the subway cars at the ends? Most of those workers do a really good job for the amount of time they have, most of the litter gets picked up. Any biohazards are cleaned and sanitized. They do a mop down of random cars later on when it isn't so busy. Give it 20 minutes and it's dirty again. Not from people dragging salt or mud in on their shoes, but fast food trash, coffee spills, spit on the floor, ... It would be nice if the buses and streetcars would be more frequently deep cleaned, but I doubt you would notice once the vehicle was out in service for a few trips on a busy route.

 

It doesn't help that the Hydrogen Peroxide solution the contractor is misting with makes every reflective surface look grimy. Takes forever to polish up a window that they have sprayed.

It is a bylaw that TTC should implement. No eating or drinking in TTC vehicles.

Look how clean it is in the Hong Kong MTR system (even before China's communist takeover). Same goes for most of the Asia metro systems.
If GTA society cannot pickup after themselves, then new laws have to be implemented to control that.

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21 minutes ago, Cityflyer said:

It is a bylaw that TTC should implement. No eating or drinking in TTC vehicles.

Look how clean it is in the Hong Kong MTR system (even before China's communist takeover). Same goes for most of the Asia metro systems.
If GTA society cannot pickup after themselves, then new laws have to be implemented to control that.

I agree, but who will enforce it? Look at all the things that are in the current bylaw that don't get enforced. Loitering, feet on seats, spitting, littering, interfering with an operator's ability to do their job, paying proper fare, entering/exiting through proper areas, bikes during peak hours on vehicles or onboard crowded vehicles, dogs in the system during peak hours, open alcohol, smoking, sound from electronic devices (not using headphones), and so on.

 

Something as simple as paying your fare, you see what happens when they try to enforce that?

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re: TTC bylaw

 

A good example of lack of enforcement of the bylaws is the no soliciting section. It's in the bylaw, people aren't supposed to beg for money on the system, yet they do. Not only that, they also violate another section of the bylaw when they walk between cars on the T1s. Only once have I seen anybody do anything about somebody begging for money on a train, and it wasn't even a TTC employee, it was a Toronto Police officer who was on the train going somewhere. Not sure if he was on duty at the time, but he was in uniform. Took him a few minutes to convince the soliciting person to leave.

 

No eating/no drinking rule? You're violating somebody's human rights there. Always some sort of medical exemption to rules like that. You can't refuse somebody service, because that would violate their human rights, even though they aren't paying to use the service. If somebody violates any section of the current bylaw, what happens if a Special Constable witnesses it? It's not a criminal matter most of the time, so they get told to stop doing what they are doing. If they continue, they get told to leave the system. If they refuse, they get trespassed regardless of the original bylaw violation. Smoking, drinking alcohol, doing crack, causing a disturbance, and so on, all gets trespassed. That's it. Good luck getting a homeless person to pay fines.

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They only really remove the beggars/homeless from the system if they are being disruptive to the staff or customers, or if they are taking up seats or stinkin' up the subway cars.

I remember hearing a call on the subway radio before COVID, that a woman just defecated in the seat right next to the operator cab on the T1 train. The operator was so shaken up she said she vomited. They took the train out of service and into the yard because it was close to Greenwood Yard, and it took the police and TTC supervisors over 2 hours to get rid of this person from the train as she was very combative and started throwing the feces at them.

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5 hours ago, Turtle said:

The easiest way to improve the litter situation is for everybody to stop littering.

Which, pragmatically, would also be the most ineffective way of changing the situation. By taking that approach TTC is simply saying "we don't give an eff ..."

 

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1 minute ago, nfitz said:

Which, pragmatically, would also be the most ineffective way of changing the situation. By taking that approach TTC is simply saying "we don't give an eff ..."

 

So what do you want them to do? We live in a society of selfish people who can't see beyond the tip of their noses, and there aren't enough personnel on hand to fine every bozo that does this. Unless there is a societal level change, nothing will change.

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28 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

So what do you want them to do? We live in a society of selfish people who can't see beyond the tip of their noses, and there aren't enough personnel on hand to fine every bozo that does this. Unless there is a societal level change, nothing will change.

Either there needs to be a societal change, or there needs to be a culture change at TTC, which is far more interested in blaming a very small minority of it's customers, while providing poorer service to the majority of it's customers.

If TTC can't even fix their issues (which aren't impossible ... look at how the washroom situation changed when TTC decided to start cleaning the washrooms more than once a day, rather than blaming their clients), then I don't see how we'd get societal change.

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1 hour ago, PCC Guy said:

So what do you want them to do? We live in a society of selfish people who can't see beyond the tip of their noses, and there aren't enough personnel on hand to fine every bozo that does this. Unless there is a societal level change, nothing will change.

Sometimes cultural change is initialized with education and enforcement. Our education totally fails to teach kids to respect others is the first issue. They fear kids growing up would be stressed out and feel harmed. Therefore they never receive any punishment for unacceptable behaviours. They grow up thinking they have the rights to do anything. 
 

Now we have people shooting in Yorkdale during busy afternoons. People protesting by destroying and vandalizing statues cause they don’t like them. People trying to assault Trudeau cause they don’t like his political policies. People claiming that they can’t wear masks cause they are faking an exemption. At this rate, 50 years later they’ll say these people are tame as to how people will act in the future.

 In Asia they are able to keep their subways clean by not allowing food or banning food. Here they some people have disorders and need to eat regulating, they can’t ban that. Don’t get me started on why unvaccinated anti mask people should have the rights to go anywhere they want. 

They probably should start fining more people and have to take part in a community service exercise to clean up garage if they are caught doing so.

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5 hours ago, nfitz said:

Either there needs to be a societal change, or there needs to be a culture change at TTC, which is far more interested in blaming a very small minority of it's customers, while providing poorer service to the majority of it's customers.

I mean, I'm not going to dispute that there is a lot that the TTC does extremely poorly, but again I fail to see what exactly they are supposed to do to tackle the problem at the root. A culture change at the TTC is not going to make people less disgusting. They can ramp up cleaning, yes, and that might cause you to see the problem less often, but that still deals with the problem after it's been created. There is no way for the TTC to ensure that their riders aren't pigs, only to clean up after them once they've made a mess of things.

So, again: Unless there is a societal level change, nothing will change. Except you might possibly see it less.

6 hours ago, nfitz said:

look at how the washroom situation changed when TTC decided to start cleaning the washrooms more than once a day, rather than blaming their clients)

Why not accurately blame their clients, while also ramping up cleaning at their bathrooms? They can do both of these things, and should. Entirely too much of modern civilization revolves around mollycoddling growns up who act worse than toddlers. Someone who makes a mess of a TTC bathroom, whether it's cleaned 24 seconds or 24 hours later, should be shamed as such.

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17 minutes ago, PCC Guy said:

Why not accurately blame their clients, while also ramping up cleaning at their bathrooms? They can do both of these things, and should. Entirely too much of modern civilization revolves around mollycoddling growns up who act worse than toddlers. Someone who makes a mess of a TTC bathroom, whether it's cleaned 24 seconds or 24 hours later, should be shamed as such.

Vast majority of the mess in TTC washrooms are created by homeless and junkies. I've been listening to the TTC dispatch radio for over 10 years, and the most washroom-related calls involve homeless and the junkies, and that has certainly increased bigtime during the pandemic - it was an absolute bleep-show early on when the TTC stopped enforcing fares and had the rear-boarding policy on buses with no cash payments.

They can definitely invest more in keeping those people out of the system.

 

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14 hours ago, PCC Guy said:

Keeping specific groups of people out of a public transit system screams human rights issue.

Maybe i didn't word that correctly, I wouldn't keep them out when they are not causing an issue.

They are not using the system for transit when they are begging or injecting drugs, sorry.

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

Maybe i didn't word that correctly, I wouldn't keep them out when they are not causing an issue.

They are not using the system for transit when they are begging or injecting drugs, sorry.

It’s hard to ban individuals from actually using the system. Do we even know those that are actually banned by courts are not using the ttc anymore? Probably not cause most operators and riders wouldn’t know them.

 We know issuing tickets to citizens with no fix address doesn’t mean much. There’s nothing to hold them accountable to pay unless the fine could be taken gain their bank account (if they own one).

So the only hope is to rehabilitate them which cost a lot of money or the worst option execute/remove/relocate them which is completely unacceptable according to the general public. The cops/border officers can’t seem to control the drugs either.

 The only possible solution is to install a face recognition system at every ttc vehicle and stations and deny them from accessing the TTC if they are banned. This would probably end up with an outcry of human rights and being compared to communist China.

 That doesn’t seem likely either so we have discussion with no realistic solution.

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There are just so many "regulars" that are a constant nuisance on the system. I hear it on the radio all the time. "He's a regular, she's a regular" - whether its loitering, accosting customers or staff, or doing drugs or leaving needles behind, etc...

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5 hours ago, MK78 said:

There are just so many "regulars" that are a constant nuisance on the system. I hear it on the radio all the time. "He's a regular, she's a regular" - whether its loitering, accosting customers or staff, or doing drugs or leaving needles behind, etc...

100% right. There are way too many that cause issues regularly with no consequences. 

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12 hours ago, MK78 said:

There are just so many "regulars" that are a constant nuisance on the system. I hear it on the radio all the time. "He's a regular, she's a regular" - whether its loitering, accosting customers or staff, or doing drugs or leaving needles behind, etc...

Don't forget about all the Karen's or Ken's out there that will throw a tantrum if you ask them to stay behind the white line on the bus (safety issue, it's in the HTA), or if you are a little late or some other issue they demand an explanation but don't want to listen to the answer, or decide to stand in front of the bus on the road and block it because they couldn't get on for some reason. Sometimes a "regular" is easier to deal with, because they usually don't scream at you to speak to your manager, and they have a recorded history with the system so you don't have to explain your own actions.

 

"I demand to know your name" - I love that one, usually it's Jessica or Bob depending on how I feel that day

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  • 4 weeks later...

TTC has installed a new sound barrier wall at the west end of Russell that roller coast where it need to be by houses next to it.

They have used steel post in place of the wall barrier post that the post are being use to support the new OS for the yard that well be higher than the current one. The last 4 tracks don't have any OS over them and out of service for EllisDon who will be rebuilding the yard.

The posts have 3 plates on then with 2 on an angle with 14 holes in them.

The rebuilding of the yard is being delay by Toronto Hydro for the Queensway ROW and the Roncesvalles Intersection that 501 and 504 will not return to normal routing until early 2022. Until 501 and 504 cars can be move to Roncy yard, it pushing back when work can start on Russell.

Since June, my visits have become longer between visit as signs were there that the project was falling more and more behind schedule to the point that there been no one on site nor any changes from the last one. Time for another visit.

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On 8/31/2021 at 7:21 PM, MK78 said:

There are just so many "regulars" that are a constant nuisance on the system. I hear it on the radio all the time. "He's a regular, she's a regular" - whether its loitering, accosting customers or staff, or doing drugs or leaving needles behind, etc...

Unfortunately,  this is a major issue even on YRT. Especially at Finch terminal, and onboard the Viva Blue, daytime 99, and night time 98/99. I have had 98/99 as part of my regular schedule for 10 months over a span of 4 board periods,  and I have had numerous encounters with those vagrants onboard my bus. There was one who tried to smoke a crack pipe while seated in the back of the bus, and I had to kick him off the bus right at Finch terminal. The public washroom at the terminal is very disgusting as well, due to the junkies doing drugs in there, and Metrolinx actually recently had to remove all the seats in the passenger waiting area in order to stop the homeless and junkies from sleeping in there and causing a nuisance to others.

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CBC's afternoon Toronto show Here & Now did a bit yesterday (Monday) about a musician who wrote music (I don't think there are words) for all subway stations. Furthermore, the length of the pieces should be enough to cover you until the next station. So the downtown stations get short bits. This all is supposed to be on bandcamp somewhere. Darned if I can find it.

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