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Given that tokens have gone up 30¢ since the last cash increase, then cash fares should rise more than 25¢ even if not token increase.

When they raised the cash fare to $2 in 1992, tokens were $1.30. By that standard cash fares would be $4.31 currently.

If tokens go to $2.90 then cash should go to at least $3.50 and $3.75 would be more in line with practice. And $4.50 cash would be in line with what they did in 1992.

$3.50 cash fare is not unreasonable, but $3.25 might be more palatable. All ticket/token discounts should be eliminated and the child fare reinstated. Of course none of this will happen because it is politically unappealing nor will the city increase the subsidy, so we're back to the same old story of TTC begging, pleading and cajoling,...or cutting service.

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$3.50 cash fare is not unreasonable, but $3.25 might be more palatable. All ticket/token discounts should be eliminated and the child fare reinstated. Of course none of this will happen because it is politically unappealing nor will the city increase the subsidy, so we're back to the same old story of TTC begging, pleading and cajoling,...or cutting service.

Everybody is 12 these days it seems.

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Everybody is 12 these days it seems.

I just see every ops let everyone on cause it is impossible to tell who is 12 and who is 13. It's also rare that they check for post secondary ID cards with those metropass either. Although I have a check a friend of a friend getting hit with a $300 ticket without one.

I also question those fare inspectors. Lat week, I saw a crew giving a few people warnings on QQ and then they went for a Timmies break for half an hour. Luckily 95+% of the riders are honest or the TTC would have fell apart already.

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Having children under 12 ride free was a mistake in my opinion. At least re-instate child fares AND have a cash fare increase to $3.10 perhaps to all go to supporting and to pay for the service increases.

Child fares only brought in $7 million a year. It's a rounding error on a $1.5 billion budget. if you look at 2015 service initiatives, other was $36 million.

A 25-cent cash fare increase raises $12 million - so a dime is only worth about $5 million.

Meanwhile a 10-cent increase in tokens raises $24 million.

I think the answer is a 10-cent token increase (and same % on passes), and a 50-cent cash increase (which hasn't raised in years). This would raise almost $50 million. About half of what is needed. Let the other half come from the city.

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Child fares only brought in $7 million a year. It's a rounding error on a $1.5 billion budget. if you look at 2015 service initiatives, other was $36 million.

A 25-cent cash fare increase raises $12 million - so a dime is only worth about $5 million.

Meanwhile a 10-cent increase in tokens raises $24 million.

I think the answer is a 10-cent token increase (and same % on passes), and a 50-cent cash increase (which hasn't raised in years). This would raise almost $50 million. About half of what is needed. Let the other half come from the city.

25 cents is fare enough, other nearby transit agencies are more.

I don't envy fare enforcement officers I see them all the time being told to F off.

Now all those "12 year olds" are using the free fare to their advantage....hopping on at lunch time for just a couple stops and not just a not just a few of them.

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Sometimes I wonder why bother with yearly fare increases. Just increase our fares to YRT levels and leave us alone for about 8 to 10 years. Surely that would be adequate sustainable revenue from the firebox to support the service growth that we require. Failing that, if we could re-instate our 75/25 funding with assistance from the Feds, Province, and City we could have sustainable funding for the future.

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25 cents is fare enough, other nearby transit agencies are more.

Cash used to be $2 when tokens were $1.30 - 54% premium - though higher than the 20% to 30% premium it had been historicaly. In 2001 they raised cash 25¢ to $2.25 but tokens were up 50¢ to $1.80 - back to the usual 25% premium

In 2005 cash went 25¢ to $2.50 but tokens had gone up 30¢ to $2 - a 25% premium

In 2006 cash went 25¢ to $2.75 though tokens only went up 10¢ to $2.10- a 31% premium.

However when we went to $3 cash in 2010 tokens and gone up another 40¢ to $2.50 - a 20% premum.

Currently we're at a record low 7% premium.

If we raise tokens 10¢ to $2.90 that's a 40¢ increase since the last cash increase. A $3.25 cash fare would only be a 12% premum - very low compared to the past. Even a $3.50 cash fare is a 21% premium - in line with what we did in 2010. Even $3.75 would only be a 29% premium - hardly out of line with the past.
For simplicity, a $4 cash fare would be right. Based on the past 20% to 30% premium, that would mean a $3.10 to $3.30 token. So surely that's only 3-4 years away.

Now all those "12 year olds" are using the free fare to their advantage....hopping on at lunch time for just a couple stops and not just a not just a few of them.

Not seeing a new issue here. They used to claim they were 12 and pay 60¢ instead of $1.90. If it's that predictable an issue, then fare enforcement officers will be quick to find them if TTC wants to. Though are 13-year olds going 2 stops for free off-peak, when a 12-year old can go across the city for free at peak, hardly seems to be a big issue!
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Last Saturday I saw a total of 6 employees chatting and drinking coffee inside the closed door SB at Midland station, normally when they run the SRT shuttle, just for Midland station, TTC assigns one employee at SE corner of Midland and Progress, one at SW corner, 2 at SB Midland station and 2 at NB. There was a little shower last Saturday afternoon, so all these 6 people (1-2 look like at more senior level with TTC communication equipment or even TTC car and other 4 may just be part time help) gathered there and nobody was on the location where they should be.

Even if they stand there, they usually just listen to their own music or play with their phone almost all the time.

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Last Saturday I saw a total of 6 employees chatting and drinking coffee inside the closed door SB at Midland station, normally when they run the SRT shuttle, just for Midland station, TTC assigns one employee at SE corner of Midland and Progress, one at SW corner, 2 at SB Midland station and 2 at NB. There was a little shower last Saturday afternoon, so all these 6 people (1-2 look like at more senior level with TTC communication equipment or even TTC car and other 4 may just be part time help) gathered there and nobody was on the location where they should be.

Even if they stand there, they usually just listen to their own music or play with their phone almost all the time.

I don't get it, what's your point? Are you complaining or what?

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Last Saturday I saw a total of 6 employees chatting and drinking coffee inside the closed door SB at Midland station, normally when they run the SRT shuttle, just for Midland station, TTC assigns one employee at SE corner of Midland and Progress, one at SW corner, 2 at SB Midland station and 2 at NB. There was a little shower last Saturday afternoon, so all these 6 people (1-2 look like at more senior level with TTC communication equipment or even TTC car and other 4 may just be part time help) gathered there and nobody was on the location where they should be.

Even if they stand there, they usually just listen to their own music or play with their phone almost all the time.

I think this point is it looks really bad on the TTC. If someone took a picture, they would look like a bunch of lazy asses slacking off. This is the typical stereotype that people have of the TTC. When it comes to fare hikes, the general public disapproves.

I really think the TTC should consider a major hike oppose to multiple mini hikes. Sometimes those mini hikes don't happen and the TTC is short on cash yet again. Repeated hikes generate more negative publicity than one major one. With a big hike, people get mad but they get use to it and stop complaining plus they get more cash in beginning.

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I think this point is it looks really bad on the TTC. If someone took a picture, they would look like a bunch of lazy asses slacking off. This is the typical stereotype that people have of the TTC. When it comes to fare hikes, the general public disapproves.

I really think the TTC should consider a major hike oppose to multiple mini hikes. Sometimes those mini hikes don't happen and the TTC is short on cash yet again. Repeated hikes generate more negative publicity than one major one. With a big hike, people get mad but they get use to it and stop complaining plus they get more cash in beginning.

Whenever doesn't something, anything look bad on TTC? It's TTC's own doing and it's systemic. Better that, and then go on TV and apologize if and when exposed. I agree with one major hike, since your analogy is similar to torture, imposing the riding public to death by a thousand little fare hikes, none of which are harsh in themselves, but which over the years, add up to a slow and painful abuse of the riding public instead one firm, decisive, and bold action, none of which are terms used to describe politicians. Look, you can either pay a little now or pay a lot later, but you are going to pay.

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Sometimes I wonder why bother with yearly fare increases. Just increase our fares to YRT levels and leave us alone for about 8 to 10 years. Surely that would be adequate sustainable revenue from the firebox to support the service growth that we require. Failing that, if we could re-instate our 75/25 funding with assistance from the Feds, Province, and City we could have sustainable funding for the future.

Because yearly fare increases are generally easier for everyone to swallow, and aren't as likely to cause people to walk away from the service. And the fact that ridership has never been higher in spite of the yearly or almost-yearly increases certainly appears to bear that out.

Dan

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Because yearly fare increases are generally easier for everyone to swallow, and aren't as likely to cause people to walk away from the service.

Dan

Easier to swallow yes, but they are also more likely to cause mass public complaints more so then one large fare increase. Just look what happens when the news comes out that the TTC is *considering* increasing fares. News organizations generally like hype stories like this constantly.

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I guess you have no idea how people who live on a fixed income live. Not everyone can afford $20 or $30 extra dollards a month for a metro pass.

Then you do not get a Metropass if you can not afford one. Have to limit your transit use to longer trips and use other modes of transport for short trips like walking or bike riding.

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Easier to swallow yes, but they are also more likely to cause mass public complaints more so then one large fare increase. Just look what happens when the news comes out that the TTC is *considering* increasing fares. News organizations generally like hype stories like this constantly.

Maybe the TTC can slowly reverse the service increase instead of a fare hike. Forget about the new express service or peak service improvement. Claim that more buses won't improve service as they bunch up anyways.

Once the new subway/LRT opens, they'll either need a massive subsidy increase, a major fare hike or a significant cut in service. There is no other way to create efficiency unlike they do something extraordinary like cut wages by 30%, install transit priority at every signal, ban all cars from using the right lane turning it into a bus lane, ban cars on downtown roads with streetcar tracks, etc.

I just want to point out there is no solution to the current problem. Even if they do raise fares, in 2 years we'll have the exact same problem.

Then you do not get a Metropass if you can not afford one. Have to limit your transit use to longer trips and use other modes of transport for short trips like walking or bike riding.

The whole metropass thing is going to be history by 2017. TTC will charge your presto card until you reach 48 trips. Every will use presto which saves TTC move in the long run as they don't need to count tokens, print and sell metropasses and more importantly those credit card fees will be bored by Metrolinx. TTC might even implement a zone system and a regional transit fares.

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Maybe the TTC can slowly reverse the service increase instead of a fare hike. Forget about the new express service or peak service improvement. Claim that more buses won't improve service as they bunch up anyways.

Why would TTC reverse the service increase? As recently as 2 days ago Byfield was publicly touting the service increase. I've noticed that 506 is running a lot more smoothly with less bunching in the 3 weeks or so since the large service increase at Labour Day.

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The whole metropass thing is going to be history by 2017. TTC will charge your presto card until you reach 48 trips. Every will use presto which saves TTC move in the long run as they don't need to count tokens, print and sell metropasses and more importantly those credit card fees will be bored by Metrolinx. TTC might even implement a zone system and a regional transit fares.

Be that as it may, you're forgetting cash fares will always be around. Presto won't eliminate that, they'll still have to collect, sort and process it. Labor intensive and TTC hates that.

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Be that as it may, you're forgetting cash fares will always be around. Presto won't eliminate that, they'll still have to collect, sort and process it. Labor intensive and TTC hates that.

Which is why some systems which have fully adopted farecards, make the cash fare about double the smartcard fare, to discourage cash usage, and minimize processing costs.

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Why would TTC reverse the service increase? As recently as 2 days ago Byfield was publicly touting the service increase. I've noticed that 506 is running a lot more smoothly with less bunching in the 3 weeks or so since the large service increase at Labour Day.

If the is no money left in the pot, they got no options.

Be that as it may, you're forgetting cash fares will always be around. Presto won't eliminate that, they'll still have to collect, sort and process it. Labor intensive and TTC hates that.

I think it will still be easier for the TTC. With presto, less people will use money as presto is compatible with all gta systems, doesn't expire and easier to carry than counting coins. Riders also do not have to restock unlike tokens and tickets. Although you still can't load your card online and expect to have your fund available the next minute.
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If the is no money left in the pot, they got no options.

Where do you get this from? Fares will raise, and city will increase it's subsidy - as it does most years.

Although you still can't load your card online and expect to have your fund available the next minute.

I've been using AutoReload flawlessly for 5 years now. Not sure why one would want to have to reload one's card. And if one wants to do it immediately, why not just use the loading machines that will be in each subway station, and are instantaneous.

Still far better system than London. There, when you load online, not only do you have to wait until the next day to do it. You can't get the load on a bus or vehicle. You can only get it at the station where you told them you'd pick it up!

Or Montreal. You can't load cash there. You have to preload tickets for each system you ride on. And you have to go to different vending machines for each system!1

1 Actually there are ways of loading tickets online in Montreal for STM. But involves buying a card reader and plugging it into your computer! And it only works if you have a credit card; no debit. And you need an email account too. But make sure you don't have a recent version of Chrome, because it only works with old ones. And that only covers STM, not the other agencies you'd have to prepurchase tickets for ...

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With presto, less people will use money as presto is compatible with all gta systems, doesn't expire and easier to carry than counting coins.

To be fair, the counting coins issue is due to the TTC not upgrading the farebox since the TTC's inception in the 1920's. Modern farebox systems can handle fare payment made by a fistful of coins and give change fairly quickly.

I also wouldn't say that the cash fare will go into decline due to the new tap debit/credit card and cellphone payment methods.

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