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buschic

By buschic
in Greater Toronto Area

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Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Ed T. said:

I don't know about cost sharing, but the responsibilities as stated are correct. (I have an inside view of these things.)

Toronto is responsible for, and maintains, the entirety of the roadway.

York Region is responsible for, and maintains, sidewalks on the north side.

But Toronto maintains the bus stops on the north side.

Even if costs are shared (and I don't know the details), it's obvious that things will inevitably fall between the cracks in an arrangement like this.

This sounds about right. It's a similar situation along Eglinton from Renforth to Etobicoke Creek. You will notice the street lights and street name signs are in Toronto standards.

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Kelvin3157

Kelvin3157

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

This sounds about right. It's a similar situation along Eglinton from Renforth to Etobicoke Creek. You will notice the street lights and street name signs are in Toronto standards.

The MiWay Transitway construction happened there so it probably meant that Peel had to have some sort of agreement to Toronto as Eglinton was also within the construction. I noticed they used special signals for that stretch...

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Xtrazsteve

Xtrazsteve

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

The MiWay Transitway construction happened there so it probably meant that Peel had to have some sort of agreement to Toronto as Eglinton was also within the construction. I noticed they used special signals for that stretch...

The Mississauga Transitway sits entirely on Mississauga land just north of the avenue ROW. The bridge repair that just occurred in the past summer at Eglinton/Etobicoke Creek was a City of Toronto project. The speed limit was also reduced to 60 km/h under John Tory's pedestrian safety program. This all points to Toronto having full control of the street.

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Ed T.

Ed T.

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Transit geek said:

How weird. I was listening to a Chinese radio station talk show host stating that in case of a traffic accident, the border between the jurisdictions lies in the median of the roadway, i.e. York Region Police deals with incidents in the westbound lanes while Toronto Police handles those in the eastbound lanes.

Not really weird. Totally different departments, each with their particular mandate and operating procedures. They all have to deal with this issue, but they'll resolve it in different ways. For example, it's a good question how Toronto Hydro and the York Region utilities divided up streetlighting along Steeles (I think it's Toronto Hydro).

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MT0603

MT0603

Posted
Posted

Amazing how not a single source is listed in all this banter. Municipalities negotiate cost sharing and service provision agreements for shared pieces of infrastructure. Also Steeles Avenue lies entirely within the City of Toronto. Source: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-70184.pdf

Mississauga and Toronto have a number of agreements for the bridges over the Etobicoke Creek and while Toronto is administering the work at Bloor and (previously) Eglinton, the City of Mississauga pays their share of the projects. 

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Kelvin3157

Kelvin3157

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

The Mississauga Transitway sits entirely on Mississauga land just north of the avenue ROW. The bridge repair that just occurred in the past summer at Eglinton/Etobicoke Creek was a City of Toronto project. The speed limit was also reduced to 60 km/h under John Tory's pedestrian safety program. This all points to Toronto having full control of the street.

But when the transitway was built, and they had to create the overpasses, Toronto had to use temporary lighting to accommodate the overpass construction.

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Ed T.

Ed T.

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MT0603 said:

Amazing how not a single source is listed in all this banter.

I tend to be cautious about repeating what I hear or do at work.

Quote

Municipalities negotiate cost sharing and service provision agreements for shared pieces of infrastructure. Also Steeles Avenue lies entirely within the City of Toronto. Source: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2014/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-70184.pdf

Sure. But, as I mentioned above, when it comes down to the people actually doing the work, the exact wording of the agreements is not going to be top of mind. There's a good reason why I know who's responsible for sidewalks on the north side of Steeles. Supervisors (and I'm not one) disagreed over the matter, which led to asking other supervisors and them doing some research, until the matter was settled.

Policies can be clear in the documents, but documents don't go out and fix bus stops. Workers with plenty of other duties do.

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drum118

drum118

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kelvin3157 said:

But when the transitway was built, and they had to create the overpasses, Toronto had to use temporary lighting to accommodate the overpass construction.

There was only one set of temporary lights installed on Eglinton and that was on the west side of Etobicoke Creek in Mississauga to allow the 100's buses entrance/exit to the Transitway.

Temporary lights were installed in Toronto for rebuilding of a few intersection and had no interference on traffic at all. In some places, traffic was shift to allow building underpass bridges for the Transitway with the city getting new rebuilt roads and sideways.

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  • 2 weeks later...
jordankcw

jordankcw

Posted
Posted
On 1/12/2018 at 3:17 PM, Transit geek said:

How weird. I was listening to a Chinese radio station talk show host stating that in case of a traffic accident, the border between the jurisdictions lies in the median of the roadway, i.e. York Region Police deals with incidents in the westbound lanes while Toronto Police handles those in the eastbound lanes.

I don't know if that's the case, cause if you drive along Steeles just west of York/Durham Line to the east of Whittamore's Farms you'd occasionally see a YRP and TPS officer there trying to catch speeders coming from both sides and they'll both go for anyone whose speeding not the YRP takes westbound and TPS takes eastbound lane, but you mentioned accident I'm referring to giving out a ticket so it could be different.

That stretch along Steeles from Tapscott to 9th Line could use major work but i'm not surprised it doesn't get worked on cause it's a Toronto jurisdiction but has no benefit to Toronto (Lights on Eastvale being one and getting a 2nd lane up until 9th Line on Eastbound Steeles would be another as it just gets backed up due to all the left turners holding up traffic).That Eastvale stop itself was unfortunately an accident waiting to happen, if I didn't drive along that stretch of road I would have no idea there was a stop there and sometimes I totally forget until I see a 53A/F stop there.

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nfitz

nfitz

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, MiWay0310 said:

That's not a bad sight in all honesty. I like the mixing of a super-urban feature with a rural landscape....would make for a great photo. 

You can see examples on Streetview:

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8408548,-79.2330688,3a,50.5y,174.95h,92.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scd088luhHxibw92brSRgkw!2e0!5s20090501T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8401064,-79.2363537,3a,27.1y,238.99h,90.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swhg99G1h5AGy_ebxo1ljCQ!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8399026,-79.2370995,3a,50.4y,61.24h,92.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMkRJFUJzAbMgkEAY4Xcz6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8219308,-79.2018679,3a,75y,100.69h,93.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa9xBgBMigzWsV0FxJ1__mg!2e0!5s20150701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

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Doppelkupplung

Doppelkupplung

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, nfitz said:

You can see examples on Streetview:

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8408548,-79.2330688,3a,50.5y,174.95h,92.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scd088luhHxibw92brSRgkw!2e0!5s20090501T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8401064,-79.2363537,3a,27.1y,238.99h,90.09t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swhg99G1h5AGy_ebxo1ljCQ!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8399026,-79.2370995,3a,50.4y,61.24h,92.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMkRJFUJzAbMgkEAY4Xcz6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8219308,-79.2018679,3a,75y,100.69h,93.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa9xBgBMigzWsV0FxJ1__mg!2e0!5s20150701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e2?hl=en

Wow those are great examples; thanks! I was literally smiling when I saw all those, especially the second link with 7089...so cool to see examples like that.

Missing those Vs....

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Articulated

Articulated

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

So what are those "station customer service agents", or whatever they're now calling ticket collectors, doing on their shift? Or can gates go out of service without displaying the red cross?

I don't think that is what the article is saying.

Considering the biggest selling point about converting the entire system to new fare gates was supposed to be the real-time monitoring aspect, it's completely stupid how the TTC hasn't bothered to set up the system to monitor itself. It's sort of like buying a fancy new speedboat but not buying a trailer for it, so now you have a boat that you can't bring to the lake.

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Ed T.

Ed T.

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Articulated said:

I don't think that is what the article is saying.

Considering the biggest selling point about converting the entire system to new fare gates was supposed to be the real-time monitoring aspect, it's completely stupid how the TTC hasn't bothered to set up the system to monitor itself. It's sort of like buying a fancy new speedboat but not buying a trailer for it, so now you have a boat that you can't bring to the lake.

I would have thought that the key driving point is Presto adoption. And while that's happening, let's make gates that are more accessible and work bidirectionally (which by the way is a questionable feature when a station is really busy with passengers both entering and leaving).

I think the analogy is more like buying a fancy new speedboat that's supposed to have an app to tell you when it's getting low on fuel, but the app doesn't work yet. You can either say "shucks, can't use the boat, it might run out of gas" or you could check the fuel level manually or simply fuel it up more often. Again, the article states that gates are out of service too long because no one can tell if they're not working. Which brings me back to, if the gate isn't working, why can't the "station attendant" tell that and call it in? What exactly is the "station attendant" doing?

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