Brampton Transit/Züm

[ZümmyZüm]

1 hour ago, York Transit said:

Does anyone here work for Brampton Transit? Did they ever explain the rationale as to why Brampton Transit buses turn on their 4-way flashers every time they serve a stop? 

At YRT, operators are told to only use 4-ways at railway crossings and only when you are expecting to sit and stay for a while at a stop. The rationale being that we don't want the bus signals to confuse motorists as to what the bus is doing. A right turn signal signifies the bus is serving the stop and will be moving along shortly, please wait. A 4-way signal signifies the bus is sitting at the stop and will be for a little while, please go around.

It's also far safer to not have cars go around and try to right hook the bus, especially when the bus is about to pull out from a bus bay. Not to mention passengers disembarking the bus that might be in the car's path when they're trying to go around the bus. So why does Brampton Transit do this?

It's also very annoying when you are trailing behind a Brampton Transit and serving stops together. You never know when the Brampton bus is going to suddenly decide to take a 2 minute hold at a stop because it has its flashers on at every single stop and you can't distinguish them serving a stop or holding back because they're running hot. It's confusing.

I gather this is also the same reason why TTC removed 4-way signals from railroad crossings, to avoid confusion and telling drivers to go around when it is obviously safer for them to not go around.

I used to work there and it’s actually a policy however many operators won’t do it, the 4 ways switch is located right below the steering wheel column on the floor so you actually use your foot and hold it down to keep the 4 ways on. I agree it’s frustrating, almost as bad as it being all red signals instead of yellow on the rear. Unfortunately I don’t think I ever took a photo of it. 
 

unlike miway for example which has it programmed for when doors are opened ( front and rear door interlock engaged ), Brampton has it as an approaching stop and serving the stop policy. Since there is no interlock on Brampton buses ( front door ) it is operator controlled and therefor not always predictable 

[Doppelkupplung]

14 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

unlike miway for example which has it programmed for when doors are opened

It is the most irritating feature on MiWay's fleet (okay, perhaps it competes with the blocked off seats). 

[Gil]

Brampton Transit has gradually been restoring its network after suspending service on various routes due to reduced demand during the pandemic.  The list of restored routes/service seems to keep changing on a near weekly basis based on the posts from Transit Toronto which is documenting and archiving the information.  Their (BT's) messaging however appears to be contradictory on their website.  The main list of current routes/service offered (and reported on Transit Toronto as well) for the changes as of February 28, 2022 is not the same as the .pdf version of their Frequency Chart (also dated for February 28) which includes a disclaimer that "Additional unscheduled trips may operate during peak times" and of course the usual "All service frequencies are subject to change".  The system map at least is consistent with the revised list so you can at least see where you can go, while the bus may not be running all day. 

List of Routes Operating Frequency Chart

Screenshot comparison of the two lists.  The 81 MAYFIELD WEST and 199 UTM EXPRESS are listed as operating, albeit at a reduced service (I know they weren't the most frequent or regular of services to begin with before the pandemic) but the Frequency Chart says they aren't operating.  The first column of the Frequency Chart is for AM/PM Peak.  If the route is operating during that period it shouldn't have a "NO SERVICE" notice on it.

Brampton Transit has got to be on of the very few agencies that do not consistently denote rush hour service with a dashed or dotted line but with a call out box along the route instead (see the 25 EDENBROOK near the top left).  The only consistency with the dashed line usage is to denote a different routing for a branch route.  There are still call out boxes to indicate how often they run (weekday peak, weekdays, Monday-Saturday).  MiWay's new 18 McLAUGHLIN-DERRY also seems to have disappeared off the terminal boxes at Sheridan College and the 407 GO Terminal.  It strangely was never actually shown on the map, nor the revised 57 COURTNEYPARK also running into Sheridan College.  Meanwhile, the 199 UTM EXPRESS has never been depicted on the system map even though there's still plenty of room for its own inset.

[BramptonTransitFan84]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:29 PM, York Transit said:

Does anyone here work for Brampton Transit? Did they ever explain the rationale as to why Brampton Transit buses turn on their 4-way flashers every time they serve a stop? 

At YRT, operators are told to only use 4-ways at railway crossings and only when you are expecting to sit and stay for a while at a stop. The rationale being that we don't want the bus signals to confuse motorists as to what the bus is doing. A right turn signal signifies the bus is serving the stop and will be moving along shortly, please wait. A 4-way signal signifies the bus is sitting at the stop and will be for a little while, please go around.

It's also far safer to not have cars go around and try to right hook the bus, especially when the bus is about to pull out from a bus bay. Not to mention passengers disembarking the bus that might be in the car's path when they're trying to go around the bus. So why does Brampton Transit do this?

It's also very annoying when you are trailing behind a Brampton Transit and serving stops together. You never know when the Brampton bus is going to suddenly decide to take a 2 minute hold at a stop because it has its flashers on at every single stop and you can't distinguish them serving a stop or holding back because they're running hot. It's confusing.

I gather this is also the same reason why TTC removed 4-way signals from railroad crossings, to avoid confusion and telling drivers to go around when it is obviously safer for them to not go around.

Tbh in the GTA it's just common for drivers to go around the bus anyways. People only wait behind it if they can't go around because of traffic or they are just slow drivers in my experience lol

Even then it's up to the motorists to carefully observe the vehicles around them to anticipate movements so 4-ways really shouldn't confuse anyone other than indicating the bus will be servicing a stop

 

On 2/15/2022 at 1:51 PM, Doppelkupplung said:

It is the most irritating feature on MiWay's fleet (okay, perhaps it competes with the blocked off seats). 

Burlington has this too. Not too sure about the interlock though (on novas it just seems like a standard feature anyway)

On 3/2/2022 at 3:10 PM, Gil said:

Brampton Transit has gradually been restoring its network after suspending service on various routes due to reduced demand during the pandemic.  The list of restored routes/service seems to keep changing on a near weekly basis based on the posts from Transit Toronto which is documenting and archiving the information.  Their (BT's) messaging however appears to be contradictory on their website.  The main list of current routes/service offered (and reported on Transit Toronto as well) for the changes as of February 28, 2022 is not the same as the .pdf version of their Frequency Chart (also dated for February 28) which includes a disclaimer that "Additional unscheduled trips may operate during peak times" and of course the usual "All service frequencies are subject to change".  The system map at least is consistent with the revised list so you can at least see where you can go, while the bus may not be running all day. 

List of Routes Operating Frequency Chart

Screenshot comparison of the two lists.  The 81 MAYFIELD WEST and 199 UTM EXPRESS are listed as operating, albeit at a reduced service (I know they weren't the most frequent or regular of services to begin with before the pandemic) but the Frequency Chart says they aren't operating.  The first column of the Frequency Chart is for AM/PM Peak.  If the route is operating during that period it shouldn't have a "NO SERVICE" notice on it.

Brampton Transit has got to be on of the very few agencies that do not consistently denote rush hour service with a dashed or dotted line but with a call out box along the route instead (see the 25 EDENBROOK near the top left).  The only consistency with the dashed line usage is to denote a different routing for a branch route.  There are still call out boxes to indicate how often they run (weekday peak, weekdays, Monday-Saturday).  MiWay's new 18 McLAUGHLIN-DERRY also seems to have disappeared off the terminal boxes at Sheridan College and the 407 GO Terminal.  It strangely was never actually shown on the map, nor the revised 57 COURTNEYPARK also running into Sheridan College.  Meanwhile, the 199 UTM Express has never been depicted on the system map even though there's still plenty of room for its own inset.

I just realised that actually about the 199. I wonder why they never bothered to add it to the map

[Gil]

I'm cross-posting this from the Caledon Transit thread:

Caledon appears to be asking Brampton Transit to provide additional service into Caledon.  On top of the Voyago and GO Bus service from Bolton it seems they want to incrementally contract out service similar to YRT (and it's precursors Vaughan Transit and Markham Transit) and the TTC.  It will likely be a while before YRT can get regular service via Kleinburg or Nobleton into or bordering Bolton.

The main text of the request sent to Brampton Transit:

RE: REQUEST TO BRAMPTON TRANSIT TO EXPAND SERVICE THROUGHOUT THE MAJOR CORRIDORS NORTH OF MAYFIELD ROAD

I am writing to advise that at the Town Council meeting held on February 22, 2022, Council adopted a resolution requesting that the City of Brampton expand Brampton Transit service throughout the major corridors north of Mayfield Road.

The resolution read as follows:

• Whereas Brampton, Caledon, Mississauga and the Region of Peel strive to support active transportation and transit options for all members of the community to live, work and play in alignment with vision zero;
• Whereas the continued partnerships between the lower tier municipalities are critical for supporting the community with transit services;
• Whereas the City of Brampton through Brampton Transit provides bus service to different areas of Caledon, such as along Mayfield Road, Airport Road and into Southfields Village with transit plans for Mayfield West Communities;
• Whereas there are several areas within the Town that would benefit from transit service for example Dixie Road north of Mayfield Road;
• Now therefore be it resolved that Town staff work with Brampton Transit to explore the feasibility of expanding transit services throughout major corridors north of Mayfield Road;
• That Town staff report back to Council on the level of service and budget implications, including the current transit service in Bolton;
• Further that a copy of this motion be sent to the City of Brampton.

For more information regarding this matter, please contact the Arash Olia, Manager, Transportation Engineering for the Town of Caledon directly by e-mail to Arash.Olia@caledon.ca or by phone at 905.584.2272 ext. 4073.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Laura Hall, Director, Corporate Services / Town Clerk

I know the Town of Caledon was looking into establishing their own transit system, but face many challenges given how spread out they are geographically and the limited passenger base.  Incremental growth by contracting out service to both Brampton Transit and Voyago will likely address the most pressing needs until a full-fledged system can be implemented.  I'm wondering how far north into Caledon they were expecting Brampton Transit to go?  Old School Rd. is the next concession road north of Mayfield Rd.  Their Transit Feasibility Study Phase 2 probably got sidelined with COVID as it was supposed to be implemented last year.

Further to the Caledon Transit post, Phase 2 involved running transit along Mayfield Rd. to from Bolton to Mayfield West to connect the two.  Brampton Transit hasn't really had a proper transit planning/service improvement cycle since COVID began, but how far down the list is getting continuous service along Mayfield?  Their Transit Feasibility Study (full Study here) also showed the 36 GARDENBROOKE running further north into Bolton, perhaps to supplement the Voyago service along Hwy. 50 and additional service into Mayfield West with extensions of the 3 McLAUGHLIN, 24 VAN KIRK, 25 EDENBROOK and 502 ZÜM MAIN.  Phasing would have been 3 McLAUGHLIN in 2020, 24 VAN KIRK and 502 ZÜM MAIN in 2021 and then 25 EDENBROOK in 2022.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Gil
Additional information

[ZümmyZüm]

I can understand the need and want to increase these services further North however they run into a few issues. Prior to Covid the 24/25/28 all running north towards caledon really didn’t have the ridership to justify running at the frequencies they did. 24/25 both ended quite early as a result and the 28 was rush hour only. 
 

i will agree that mayfield needs a proper service running E-W to feed off of all the N-S routes but again until more housing starts to coming up with ridership looking for service it won’t happen. Not to mention the road isn’t currently safe for passengers to board/get off. 
 

for caledon East service via airport road would need to broken up into a separate route, perhaps terminating at mayfield road since at that point the 30 is way too long to maintain proper headway, at that point the route becomes about 26KMs long. Bolton would likely get the best service since all BT would have to do is run a local from Bolton and terminate at hwy 50/Queen. 
 

great ideas on theory, in reality they need to provide proper funding to get Brampton to service it and that’s been a ongoing issue for years now 

[Gil]

The rate of compensation is based on what YRT pays the TTC for service north of Steeles.  While the service levels might be too high, perhaps shorter branches or with limited service as is done with most TTC routes operating into York Region.  Perhaps a mirror service to the 81 MAYFIELD WEST to serve Mayfield East (of Hurontario?) once there's enough development out of Sandalwood Loop or maybe a rush hour extension to get a connection to Mount Pleasant GO should be the next incremental growth into Caledon.

There are relatively few terminal points in East Brampton, with the Gore Meadows Community Centre already identified by Caledon for routes into Bolton and Caledon East.  Voyago runs to Hwy. 7 to connect with the 501 ZÜM STEELES and apparently YRT has long-term plan to connect the subway with the Hwy. 50 corridor potentially to Bolton.

[drum118]

https://www.masstransitmag.com/bus/vehicles/hybrid-hydrogen-electric-vehicles/article/21262919/brampton-canada-infrastructure-bank-close-on-c400-million-in-funding?

[FabianColeyLOVESBUSES]

I saw brand new 2022  Brampton Nova Diesel 2202 on the highway today for delivery.

[Gil]

Brampton Transit seems to be poised to restore most of their services on April 25, with only a handful of routes (mostly the Züm branches and express routes) still waiting for ridership improvements:

501 Züm Queen

• Weekday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

2 Main

• Weekday, Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

3/3A McLaughlin

• Weekday, Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

6 James Potter

• Weekday, Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

10 South Industrial 

• Weekday service level restored 

11 Steeles 

• Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

12 Grenoble

• Weekday and Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability
• Sunday frequency: 60 minutes

13 Avondale

• Weekday and Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

14 Torbram

• Additional Weekday PM trips northbound from Westwood Mall at 1:10 pm and 1:30 pm
• Additional Weekday PM trips southbound from Torbram Road and Father Tobin Road at 1:58 pm and 2:20 pm

16 Southgate

• Weekday and Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability
• Sunday frequency: 60 minutes

17 Howden

• Sunday service restored

18 Dixie

• Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

19 Fernforest

• Weekday and Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability
• Sunday service restored 

20 East Industrial

• Weekday service level restored

23 Sandalwood 

• Weekday evening service adjusted to improve service reliability 

24 Van Kirk

• Weekday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

25 Edenbrook

• Weekday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

26 Mount Pleasant

• Weekday service level restored

27 Robert Parkinson 

• Weekday service level restored

29/29A Williams

• Weekday service level restored
• Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

31 McVean 

• Weekday service level restored 
• Sunday service level restored

32 Father Tobin

• Weekday service level restored
• Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability 
• Sunday service level restored

33 Peter Robinson

• Weekday service level restored

35 Clarkway

• Weekday service level restored

36 Gardenbrooke

• Weekday service level restored

50A Gore Road

• Weekday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability

51 Hereford

• Saturday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability 

53 Ray Lawson 

• Weekday service level restored 

54 County Court

• Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability 

57 Charolais

• Weekday service level restored 

60 Mississauga Road 

• Saturday and Sunday service restored

115 Pearson Airport Express

• Weekday AM Peak service adjusted to improve service reliability 
• Saturday and Sunday schedules adjusted to improve service reliability 

199 UTM Express

• Service Cancelled and will resume September 06, 2022

Routes cancelled until further notice (including weekday and weekends):  

• 501A/C Züm Queen (501 still operating)
• 561 Züm Queen West
• 18B Dixie (18 Dixie still operating)
• 21 Heart Lake
• 58 Financial Drive
• 65 Seniors Shopper
• 92 Bramalea GO
• 104 Chinguacousy Express
• 185 Dixie Express

Resource availability and ridership will continue to be monitored and Brampton Transit will restore services as soon as possible.

There was a detour notice the other week for the routes serving Sheridan College.  They had used their default satellite map to show the detour and affected stops.  Why not use the terminal map they have (had?) in their transit map?  Sheridan isn't one of the terminals you can view online however.  The same goes with Bramalea GO, with BT relying on the station map provided by Metrolinx.  Given the ongoing changes at Bramalea GO, I don't expect them to create a new map every time the bus platforms change, but it would be nice to eventually have some consistency.

[8006]

New Brampton Transit D40LF retirements

0403, 0408, 0411, 0413, 0415, 0416, 0418, 0426

I spotted all 8 of them in the dead lot at Sandalwood Garage. They were either stripped of parts, had Brampton Transit decals spray painted over/removed, had the bike rack removed and or had no license plate.

[G.A]

3 minutes ago, ttc.transit said:

New Brampton Transit D40LF retirements

0403, 0408, 0411, 0413, 0415, 0418, 0426

I spotted all 7 of them in the dead lot at Sandalwood Garage, they were either stripped of parts, had Brampton Transit decals spray painted over/removed, had the bike rack removed and or had no license plate.

Pretty sure there's also still a mix of 02s 03s and 04s at Clark waiting for disposal.

[8006]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:10 PM, ttc.transit said:

New Brampton Transit D40LF retirements

0403, 0408, 0411, 0413, 0415, 0416, 0418, 0426

I spotted all 8 of them in the dead lot at Sandalwood Garage. They were either stripped of parts, had Brampton Transit decals spray painted over/removed, had the bike rack removed and or had no license plate.

0421 is now also retired.

[8006]

Good news!

Some of Brampton Transit newest fleet edition (2201-2224) just entered service.

- 2201 entered service on June 3rd, 2022 on route 23 Sandalwood

- 2202 entered service on June 3rd, 2022 on route 29 Williams 

- 2203 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 1 Queen 

- 2204 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 18 Dixie 

- 2205 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 18 Dixie

[GZ6113PHEV5]

Does anyone notice if 405，422 and 419 the D40LFs have ads paper sticked on their driver‘s sides？

[H4 5600]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:57 PM, ttc.transit said:

0421 is now also retired.

0421 seems to have been reactivated on june 14th

 

[8006]

13 minutes ago, H4 5600 said:

0421 seems to have been reactivated on june 14th

Could there be any chance that the tracker from 0421 was put on a new/different bus? I've seen that happen before at TTC, not sure with Brampton tho. I was told by a BT worker friend it was retired. The 0401-0435 series is set to retire soon so weird they would bring back a bus after being inactive for 2 months (April 12th, 2022). And the fact that Clark just recently received 2 units from the new 2201-2224 series of Novas. Hm.

[8006]

On 6/7/2022 at 12:20 AM, ttc.transit said:

Good news!

Some of Brampton Transit newest fleet edition (2201-2224) just entered service.

- 2201 entered service on June 3rd, 2022 on route 23 Sandalwood

- 2202 entered service on June 3rd, 2022 on route 29 Williams 

- 2203 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 1 Queen 

- 2204 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 18 Dixie 

- 2205 entered service on June 6th, 2022 on route 18 Dixie

Three more units just entered service yesterday:

- 2206 entered service on June 17th, 2022 on route 7 Kennedy

- 2207 entered service on June 17th, 2022 on route 4 Chinguacousy

- 2208 entred service on June 17th, 2022 on 23 Sandalwood

[8006]

On 6/18/2022 at 5:27 PM, ttc.transit said:

Three more units just entered service yesterday:

- 2206 entered service on June 17th, 2022 on route 7 Kennedy

- 2207 entered service on June 17th, 2022 on route 4 Chinguacousy

- 2208 entred service on June 17th, 2022 on 23 Sandalwood

Two more entered service:

- 2209 entered service on June 30th, 2022 on route 23 Sandalwood 

- 2210 entered service on June 29th, 2022 on route 30 Airport Road 

 

[PrimeTio]

[hamilton.area.transit]

2217 entered service on the 53/57 interline on the 19th of August, 2218 entered service on the 50 on the 20th of August (got changed off), 2219 entered service today (August 22) on route 1

[Someguy3071]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:29 PM, York Transit said:

Does anyone here work for Brampton Transit? Did they ever explain the rationale as to why Brampton Transit buses turn on their 4-way flashers every time they serve a stop? 

At YRT, operators are told to only use 4-ways at railway crossings and only when you are expecting to sit and stay for a while at a stop. The rationale being that we don't want the bus signals to confuse motorists as to what the bus is doing. A right turn signal signifies the bus is serving the stop and will be moving along shortly, please wait. A 4-way signal signifies the bus is sitting at the stop and will be for a little while, please go around.

It's also far safer to not have cars go around and try to right hook the bus, especially when the bus is about to pull out from a bus bay. Not to mention passengers disembarking the bus that might be in the car's path when they're trying to go around the bus. So why does Brampton Transit do this?

It's also very annoying when you are trailing behind a Brampton Transit and serving stops together. You never know when the Brampton bus is going to suddenly decide to take a 2 minute hold at a stop because it has its flashers on at every single stop and you can't distinguish them serving a stop or holding back because they're running hot. It's confusing.

I gather this is also the same reason why TTC removed 4-way signals from railroad crossings, to avoid confusion and telling drivers to go around when it is obviously safer for them to not go around.

This is the dumbest thing that drives me nuts as I see it daily. Whoever thought of this as a safety improvement needs to be taken out back behind the shed. Also Brampton Transit uses red rear turn signals on their buses. Makes it much less visible compared to amber turn signals. 

On 2/14/2022 at 11:36 PM, ZümmyZüm said:

I used to work there and it’s actually a policy however many operators won’t do it, the 4 ways switch is located right below the steering wheel column on the floor so you actually use your foot and hold it down to keep the 4 ways on. I agree it’s frustrating, almost as bad as it being all red signals instead of yellow on the rear. Unfortunately I don’t think I ever took a photo of it. 
 

Dumb policy is dumb!!

On 2/14/2022 at 11:36 PM, ZümmyZüm said:

 

unlike miway for example which has it programmed for when doors are opened ( front and rear door interlock engaged ), Brampton has it as an approaching stop and serving the stop policy. Since there is no interlock on Brampton buses ( front door ) it is operator controlled and therefor not always predictable 

This is probably even dumber than Brampton Transit set up as there is not way to avoid using 4 ways when doors are opened.  Again whoever thought nof this is an idiot. 

On 2/14/2022 at 10:39 PM, G.A said:

Quite a few systems use their 4 ways when they serve a stop. 

And they shouldn't be unless they will be staying at that stop for a prolonged period of time. 

[Doppelkupplung]

9 hours ago, Someguy3071 said:

Also Brampton Transit uses red rear turn signals on their buses. Makes it much less visible compared to amber turn signals. 

I don't understand why this isn't regulated in Canada, like so many cars and trucks come with red turn signals and it makes zero sense. Amber should be the only option for any vehicle that is approved for use on Canadian roads. 

[ZümmyZüm]

@Someguy3071 trust me when I say that’s the only thing that drove me bonkers working there, fantastic fleet, great workplace even management yet red signals and 4ways at stops drove me insane. Thankfully the hazards had a button on the floor to activate but i stopped using them probably 2-3 months in. 
 

And yes it should be law that it’s amber for flashers and 4 ways for “emergency” or prolonged stops. It seems to be that it’s a free for all for agency specs with lights and stopping procedures, and especially in the GTA with so many operators it should be one method ( TTC method ideally )

[Someguy3071]

8 hours ago, ZümmyZüm said:

@Someguy3071 trust me when I say that’s the only thing that drove me bonkers working there, fantastic fleet, great workplace even management yet red signals and 4ways at stops drove me insane. Thankfully the hazards had a button on the floor to activate but i stopped using them probably 2-3 months in. 
 

And yes it should be law that it’s amber for flashers and 4 ways for “emergency” or prolonged stops. It seems to be that it’s a free for all for agency specs with lights and stopping procedures, and especially in the GTA with so many operators it should be one method ( TTC method ideally )

Agreed. TTC does it the right way. Last week I saw an Arrow driver on 396 turning on 4 ways pulling into bus stops. First thing that I thought was, what is this dumbass doing? Must have come from Brampton or Mississauga Transit