Transit City LRT

[Archer]

An encouraging sign:

Activity seems to be ramping up on the stretch of Sheppard between Kennedy and Midland, Including an office trailer immediately north of the Agincourt underpass shoo-fly road.

Saw that the other night... I thought I might be going crazy because I couldn't remember if the trailers had always been there or not. Glad to see I might still have some sanity.

[torontottc7]

And where do you propose the money come from? Keep in mind too that we're not even going to see the completion of the Eglinton Line, nevermind any extension of it to the Airport, for 10 years.

Things are so far off into the future that it's pointless to talk about things like that. Let's worry about big things - like funding the rest of the line - before sweating the details.

Dan

The Eglinton line goes from pearson to Kennedy STN from what the TC map tells me, and last time I checked, its not too expensive to build switches to accompany a branch route, and for *shivers* short turns which I could see a lot of if eglinton crosstown is done, mainly lrvs short turning at Jane/Donmills

[smallspy]

The Eglinton line goes from pearson to Kennedy STN from what the TC map tells me, and last time I checked, its not too expensive to build switches to accompany a branch route, and for *shivers* short turns which I could see a lot of if eglinton crosstown is done, mainly lrvs short turning at Jane/Donmills

Look at the maps that accompany the funding arrangements again - the Eglinton line only has monies attached to it for the construction of the line from Jane to Kennedy Stn., and only for completion in 2020. The rest of the line to the airport has no funding so it can't be built.

Dan

[Gil]

The Eglinton line goes from pearson to Kennedy STN from what the TC map tells me, and last time I checked, its not too expensive to build switches to accompany a branch route, and for *shivers* short turns which I could see a lot of if eglinton crosstown is done, mainly lrvs short turning at Jane/Donmills

The Transit City fleet is supposed to be double-ended so there's no need for loops, just crossovers in the tracks. I'm curious how connections at Don Mills on the Eglinton line would work as that station is supposed to be underground. If and when the Don Mills line gets built would it meet up underground as well or on the surface and you'd have a stacked transfer station like Yonge-Bloor?

[BusFreak93]

The Transit City fleet is supposed to be double-ended so there's no need for loops, just crossovers in the tracks. I'm curious how connections at Don Mills on the Eglinton line would work as that station is supposed to be underground. If and when the Don Mills line gets built would it meet up underground as well or on the surface and you'd have a stacked transfer station like Yonge-Bloor?

You could but technically if the platforms can contain 1-2 train sets on for each direction then technically they could have 2 lines entering the underground with them branching off later however this could create a bottleneck.

[smallspy]

I'm curious how connections at Don Mills on the Eglinton line would work as that station is supposed to be underground. If and when the Don Mills line gets built would it meet up underground as well or on the surface and you'd have a stacked transfer station like Yonge-Bloor?

Considering that they haven't even begun the EA for Don Mills, I don't think that we have to concern ourselves with it too much.

Let's wait until the EA process begins and see what plans they come up with before critiquing them.

Dan

[torontottc7]

Look at the maps that accompany the funding arrangements again - the Eglinton line only has monies attached to it for the construction of the line from Jane to Kennedy Stn., and only for completion in 2020. The rest of the line to the airport has no funding so it can't be built.

Dan

then in the scenario where Eglinton doesn't get funding to the airport, I will see a lot of Jane LRVs shortturning on Eglinton then, unless Woolner is still an ideal choice of short turn.

Silly me

[vivablue5215]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/...st-day-as-mayor

Rob Ford starts first day as mayor

John Stall and 680News staff Dec 01, 2010 07:28:33 AM

TORONTO, Ont. - Rob Ford took the reins of City Hall, Wednesday, as he officially became the mayor of Toronto.

680News political affairs specialist John Stall spoke with Ford, who was his way in to work.

"It feels absolutely fantastic, I just can't wait to get into the office and start meeting with people," he told 680News. "Getting the job done and getting the city straightened around."

The swearing-in ceremony takes place on Tuesday, Dec. 7, but Ford has the legal authority as of Wednesday to speak and sign on behalf of Toronto.

In the interview with Stall, Ford told 680News that Transit City is over.

"I'm meeting with Gary Webster [TTC general manager] just to make sure him and I are on the same wavelength that Transit City is over," he said. "People do not want streetcars and we're going to start building subways and we're going to start right now."

[D40-90]

Save to say TC is dead, except for maybe the Eglinton LRT.

Ever think that there might be a reason why they were "brushed off"?

To exend the route out to Variety Village would require at least another 20 minutes of round trip time added to the route, if not more. And considering that the route currently runs at a 75 minute headway, and that the TTC only recently bought a spare bus to help relieve the stress on the fleet, maybe it would be best not to schedule that spare bus in case it is needed to fill in for another one undergoing work.

Dan

Generally speaking, drivers have good ideas. I should have been more specific.

[rocketdriver2019]

Save to say TC is dead, except for maybe the Eglinton LRT.

I disagree. Rob Ford can say what he likes, he still needs approval by council.

[D40-90]

I disagree. Rob Ford can say what he likes, he still need approval by council.

True. So does Gary listen to Council or Rob Ford? They made it sound has if Rob Ford was in charge, and Gary just obeyed.

[rocketdriver2019]

True. So does Gary listen to Council or Rob Ford? They made it sound has if Rob Ford was in charge, and Gary just obeyed.

Gary listens to the commission, which is made up of councilors and ultimately executes the will of city council.

[smallspy]

Remember too that virtually none of the funding for Transit City is coming from the City.

He who holds the pursestrings calls the shots.

Dan

[rob9701]

Remember too that virtually none of the funding for Transit City is coming from the City.

He who holds the pursestrings calls the shots.

Dan

Touchy situation though for Dalton with an election next year and an electorate that voted to go in another direction in the largest city in the province. With the HST and other outcry surrounding energy costs he needs to be a little less bossy in his final year. I think he has no choice but to be willing to bend here.

[Shaun]

Touchy situation though for Dalton with an election next year and an electorate that voted to go in another direction in the largest city in the province. With the HST and other outcry surrounding energy costs he needs to be a little less bossy in his final year. I think he has no choice but to be willing to bend here.

Regardless Dalton is not stupid. I dont think he's going to give Rob everything handed to him on a silver platter.

Metrolinx was setup to make these decisions, you cant just overstep your boundaries and do whatever you want (Rob Ford).

Considering that a lot of these contracts have already been awarded, and the cost of building subways, if you do the math, it's not possible to build subways instead. Unless you want to build 10km of subway and scrap the rest of the plan.

Even then we would need to order buses to cover the passengers that the LRT was supposed to, which adds more money to the budget. 1 LRT car = 5? buses?

Not to mention having to re-do the Environmental assessments, proposals, public consultation, tenders, and then allocation of funds in the budget, and council approval. These things take like 10 years! Good luck getting shovels in the ground anytime this decade. Not to mention that we already ordered the TBM's...which will be of no use.

[TheAverageJoe]

Remember too that virtually none of the funding for Transit City is coming from the City.

He who holds the pursestrings calls the shots.

Dan

Also remember over the years Rob Ford has been more talk then anything. Thats what I keep telling people its a Metrolinx owned and funded project, the TTC of City Hall cant do anything without their approval.

[Gil]

Also remember over the years Rob Ford has been more talk then anything. Thats what I keep telling people its a Metrolinx owned and funded project, the TTC of City Hall cant do anything without their approval.

If Ford can't stop Transit City he'll probably do his darnedest to drag his feet on the project to try and suffocate it out of existence. The City could refuse to issue to just take its sweet time issuing the necessary permits/approvals to get the work done. I'm sure there's a way to spin the whole story to make the project look like a waste of time and money.

[Shaun]

If Ford can't stop Transit City he'll probably do his darnedest to drag his feet on the project to try and suffocate it out of existence. The City could refuse to issue to just take its sweet time issuing the necessary permits/approvals to get the work done. I'm sure there's a way to spin the whole story to make the project look like a waste of time and money.

Who would gain from doing that? The city would look like they are dragging their feet wasting tax payer's money, and how would that look come election time four years from now.

Besides Metrolinx has the ability to over ride their authority and run the LRT Themselves. Call it the Metrolinx LRT not the TTC LRT.

Would it be possible for the Ontario Government to make the TTC part of their mandate and integrate it as part of Metrolinx as they did with GO Transit?

I think Rob Ford needs to realize, it's not only about Toronto, its about the Region. All the surrounding regions are influenced by the decisions made in Toronto.

[Articulated]

Who would gain from doing that? The city would look like they are dragging their feet wasting tax payer's money, and how would that look come election time four years from now.

Besides Metrolinx has the ability to over ride their authority and run the LRT Themselves. Call it the Metrolinx LRT not the TTC LRT.

Would it be possible for the Ontario Government to make the TTC part of their mandate and integrate it as part of Metrolinx as they did with GO Transit?

Metrolinx has the possibility of building the lines by themselves with provincial (and possibly Federal funding if Harper ever decides to do anything nice for Toronto). I doubt however (and as mentioned before) that they will operate themselves and taking the TTC's debt upon themselves. There's also the matter of competition with TTC services, especially since GO does not directly compete with the TTC, and the bylaw prohibiting anything other than the TTC from providing local transit service within the City.

I think Rob Ford needs to realize, it's not only about Toronto, its about the Region. All the surrounding regions are influenced by the decisions made in Toronto.

Although this is seemingly what politicians should do, it's almost never what they do. Rob Ford does not care about any residents living in the 905. Nobody who lives in the 905 got him elected, and benefiting them does nothing to help Ford get re-elected. It's like this with all local politicians unfortunately - they only do what is best for their constituents and not what's best for everyone as a whole.

[Shaun]

Metrolinx has the possibility of building the lines by themselves with provincial (and possibly Federal funding if Harper ever decides to do anything nice for Toronto). I doubt however (and as mentioned before) that they will operate themselves and taking the TTC's debt upon themselves. There's also the matter of competition with TTC services, especially since GO does not directly compete with the TTC, and the bylaw prohibiting anything other than the TTC from providing local transit service within the City.

You can get around that by considering the LRT a premium service or something. Or take over the TTC and it's poor management all together.

Although this is seemingly what politicians should do, it's almost never what they do. Rob Ford does not care about any residents living in the 905. Nobody who lives in the 905 got him elected, and benefiting them does nothing to help Ford get re-elected. It's like this with all local politicians unfortunately - they only do what is best for their constituents and not what's best for everyone as a whole.

This is true, however it is the mayor's duty to work together with other municipalities that border the city. It's part of relationship building, you share a border, you share services, such as EMS, Police, Roads, Transit. They all have to work together. If they dont neither city will function properly.

[wil9402]

I was just curious, would building an underground LRT line be similar in cost to building a subway line?

[smallspy]

Metrolinx has the possibility of building the lines by themselves with provincial (and possibly Federal funding if Harper ever decides to do anything nice for Toronto). I doubt however (and as mentioned before) that they will operate themselves and taking the TTC's debt upon themselves. There's also the matter of competition with TTC services, especially since GO does not directly compete with the TTC, and the bylaw prohibiting anything other than the TTC from providing local transit service within the City.

You forget, however, that Metrolinx is overseen by the Provincial Government. Who also legislated Toronto into existance. If Metrolinx decided that the TTC needed to be taken over, I'm sure that they could convince the Province to make it so.

I was just curious, would building an underground LRT line be similar in cost to building a subway line?

For all intents and purposes, yes. There is a slight reduction in cost for the stations, as they will be far less elaborate than those for subway stations.

Dan

[D40-90]

For all intents and purposes, yes. There is a slight reduction in cost for the stations, as they will be far less elaborate than those for subway stations.

Dan

Would it be possible to make the Eglinton LRT to a subway line. I'm sure the cars for the line could come from Davisville? Plus I hear the Eglinton line is being built to allow for subways in the future? So if it is possible, I wonder if its better to make it a subway now before it gets to expensive?

[smallspy]

Would it be possible to make the Eglinton LRT to a subway line. I'm sure the cars for the line could come from Davisville? Plus I hear the Eglinton line is being built to allow for subways in the future? So if it is possible, I wonder if its better to make it a subway now before it gets to expensive?

Under the current EA, no. The stations that are planned to be built are too low, and there are only to be small concourses to allow people to choose which direction they plan to take. The line will be POP, with no fare paid areas. The changes to build it as a subway would be so significant that I can't help but think that an entirely new EA would be required.

Besides, the Eglinton line will be a subway line using different vehicles than the current subway lines. Why would you change it?

Dan

[D40-90]

Under the current EA, no. The stations that are planned to be built are too low, and there are only to be small concourses to allow people to choose which direction they plan to take. The line will be POP, with no fare paid areas. The changes to build it as a subway would be so significant that I can't help but think that an entirely new EA would be required.

Besides, the Eglinton line will be a subway line using different vehicles than the current subway lines. Why would you change it?

Dan

I guess the LRT is safe then, the underground part at least? It would be nice if the cars could be used for the rest of the subway syetem instead of just Eglinton. Like the SRT and the rest of the subway system. The Eglinton line will be standard gauge too. Hopefully this works out.