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http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNe..._ford/20101207/

Ford meets McGuinty to implement 'subway plan'

Mayor Rob Ford and Premier Dalton McGuinty held their first one-on-one meeting Tuesday where the city's newest mayor pitched his plans to nix Transit City.

Ford said the two politicians held a "very productive" meeting and plans are underway to turn planned light rail transit lines into subway lines.

"We're going to work with the province to implement our plan, our subway plan," said Ford as he emerged from the meeting at Queen's Park.

When asked how easy it would be for Toronto's city council to stop Transit City, Ford said a vote was never needed to implement it, so one wouldn't be needed to scrap the project.

The province has already spent about $130 million on Transit City and about $1.3 billion worth of contracts have been signed.

Ford will be sworn in as mayor at 2 p.m. Tuesday where he is expected to make an inaugural speech to councillors before their first meeting together.

The Toronto Star reports that Ford may break several traditions during his inauguration. Usually a senior legal official reads the declaration of office, however city clerk Ulli Watkiss will since Ford has picked Don Cherry as his guest.

Also, at Ford's request, Cherry will hang the ceremonial chain of office around the mayor's neck while the task was Watkiss' to complete.

Lastly, Cherry told the Star that he didn't expect to address council. But after learning that the mayor's guest traditionally makes a short speech, Cherry will continue the trend and make remarks.

There is also a video of the media scrum after the meeting in the link.

As for the bolded point, I can't see how the implementing/cancelling of Transit City can work both ways...especially since Metrolinx has taken over TC. More Ford BS?

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As for the bolded point, I can't see how the implementing/cancelling of Transit City can work both ways...especially since Metrolinx has taken over TC. More Ford BS?

He's actually right on this one - Transit City was never voted on by the previous council. But then again, they didn't need to, as it was a TTC initiative.

As for stopping it, he needs to get the Province and Metrolinx on side for that. And realistically, all that he needed to do was stock the Commission with people who were willing to follow his orders - which he went ahead and did.

Dan

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He's actually right on this one - Transit City was never voted on by the previous council. But then again, they didn't need to, as it was a TTC initiative.

As for stopping it, he needs to get the Province and Metrolinx on side for that. And realistically, all that he needed to do was stock the Commission with people who were willing to follow his orders - which he went ahead and did.

Dan

In other words and more blunt, Transit City is dead? But what about all the contracts and whatnot, I don't think Rob in his right mind will pay for all that considering he's all about stopping the gravy train asn waste. Unless some people are getting the Legacy cars mix-up with TC cars. For the Leagacy cars we need council to vote on weather or not to sell them or cancel them?

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Council did not explicitly vote on approving or changing Transit City - check out the motion from Peter Milcyzn that was ruled out of order - they simply approved the TTC capital budget, and agreed to some limited spending until the Province was able to pay for everything.

In other words and more blunt, Transit City is dead?

Technically, no. That decision is up to the Provincial Government and Metrolinx.

Ford can stomp and shout until he's blue in the face, but ultimately the decision is not his to make.

But what about all the contracts and whatnot, I don't think Rob in his right mind will pay for all that considering he's all about stopping the gravy train asn waste.

You're talking about a guy who has an ideological hatred of streetcars and any sort of transit that impedes cars. Logic simply has no place here.

Unless some people are getting the Legacy cars mix-up with TC cars. For the Leagacy cars we need council to vote on weather or not to sell them or cancel them?

I would assume that a council vote is needed, since council had to vote to make the second third of the total available.

Dan

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Consider that overall only half of the citizens of Toronto voted for him (About 52%), so 48% of the city does not agree with some of his mandates. That is a lot of dissatisfied citizens.

Nope, only 52% of those people who were eligible to vote and bothered to vote voted for him: 383,501 according to the City Clerk. Given that the population of Toronto is about 2.5 million, that's not even 16% of the total population.

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If The Provincial government/Metrolinx tells Ford "You can't change Transit City, it's going ahead no matter if you like it or not" and Transit City is built to plan, with the plan is that the lines will be POP; will they be like VIVA in York Region where fare inspectors come on sometimes to check the fares? If so, what will happen for people who got on the LRT train from a subway station as I assume that the stations will not require a transfer from a Transit City line to the subway?

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If The Provincial government/Metrolinx tells Ford "You can't change Transit City, it's going ahead no matter if you like it or not" and Transit City is built to plan, with the plan is that the lines will be POP; will they be like VIVA in York Region where fare inspectors come on sometimes to check the fares? If so, what will happen for people who got on the LRT train from a subway station as I assume that the stations will not require a transfer from a Transit City line to the subway?

If the Transit City LRT is running using POP, then transfers with the subway would be similar to the setup on the 501 QUEEN streetcar. The LRT stations themselves will be fairly simple.

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If the Transit City LRT is running using POP, then transfers with the subway would be similar to the setup on the 501 QUEEN streetcar. The LRT stations themselves will be fairly simple.

Lol, I could see these people telling the ticket inspector they were about to pay the operator B)

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Lol, I could see these people telling the ticket inspector they were about to pay the operator B)

If I were the inspector, I'd fine them for being on board without having paid. Of course if and when PRESTO comes to the TTC that could be another matter altogether. Speaking of PRESTO and ticket inspections, if you fail to swipe your card at a reader would it be better to simply pay a premium fare or have a fine automatically billed to your card? With warning of course. I'm sure the inspector would be able to tell if the card holder is a usual abuser of the system or if it was a one-time occurance.

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  • 2 weeks later...
If The Provincial government/Metrolinx tells Ford "You can't change Transit City, it's going ahead no matter if you like it or not" and Transit City is built to plan, with the plan is that the lines will be POP; will they be like VIVA in York Region where fare inspectors come on sometimes to check the fares? If so, what will happen for people who got on the LRT train from a subway station as I assume that the stations will not require a transfer from a Transit City line to the subway?

The rough plan for Finch West Station (for example) is to have the Finch West LRT platforms outside of the fare paid area, thus enabling the use of POP payment without easily cheating the system.

Why they are doing this, I have no idea. I mean, yes it will mean better enforcement and less B.S. for cheap individuals trying to get an easy ride onto the subway.

But I wonder if they ever thought of how easily people will be able to get onto the subway off of, say, the 504 or the 505? Same fare system (POP) and you'll be inside the fare zone. I wonder if they TTC will ever do roaming fare checks IN the subway, if PRESTO goes online across the board, and passengers need to be in possession of a transfer at all times?

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The rough plan for Finch West Station (for example) is to have the Finch West LRT platforms outside of the fare paid area, thus enabling the use of POP payment without easily cheating the system.

Why they are doing this, I have no idea. I mean, yes it will mean better enforcement and less B.S. for cheap individuals trying to get an easy ride onto the subway.

But I wonder if they ever thought of how easily people will be able to get onto the subway off of, say, the 504 or the 505? Same fare system (POP) and you'll be inside the fare zone. I wonder if they TTC will ever do roaming fare checks IN the subway, if PRESTO goes online across the board, and passengers need to be in possession of a transfer at all times?

Let's just say when the fare evader sees a subway inspector, one would quickly search for any transfer that is still valid.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I also read in the 24HR or Metro that Metrolinx is proposing a Busway on Finch West instead of an LRT.

Possibly related to this...

Subways would cost more and serve fewer, think tank says

Penny-pinching Mayor Rob Ford’s subway plan would cost three times as much per kilometre to build as the four Metrolinx-funded light rail lines and attract only half as many riders, says a study released Wednesday by a sustainable-energy think tank.

It suggests Ford’s subway expansion plans would cost about $344 million per kilometre and attract about 65 million rides annually.

By comparison, 75 kilometres of light rail would run $111 million per kilometre and draw about 126 million rides a year, says the report, Making Tracks to Torontonians, by the Pembina Institute.

Metrolinx had agreed to spend $8.15 billion on the first 50 kilometres of the Transit City light rail plan. Even that much would attract 86 million rides annually, Pembina policy director Cherise Burda told the Toronto Star.

The report, released in conjunction with the Toronto Environmental Alliance, compares two scenarios:

• Putting light rail on Sheppard, Finch, Eglinton and converting the Scarborough RT to the same light rail technology.

• Converting the SRT to subway, a new subway connection between the Sheppard and Downsview stations and extending the Sheppard subway line from Don Mills station to the Scarborough Town Centre — about 18 kilometres of subway.

While both schemes would reach Scarborough and North York, the four light rail lines would extend to an additional five neighbourhoods, many of them under-served by transit.

The subway plan would put about 60,000 people within a six-minute walk of transit, says the report.

If all 75 kilometers of light rail get built, 290,000 Torontonians would gain access to rapid transit, says the report, and even the initial 50 kilometers of light rail would be accessible to 200,000 commuters, said Burda.

The Pembina report focuses on both the funded and unfunded phases of the light rail plan, because “we believe if you go ahead with Phase 1, the entire line will be built,” she said. “After 10 years we should be able to see the money for Phase 2.”

The first phase of the Metrolinx light rail plan would be the most expensive because it includes about 10 kilometres underground on Eglinton Ave.

Ford hasn’t endorsed any specific plans yet. But he’s been clear that more subway on Sheppard is a priority.

Metrolinx and the TTC are expected to present the mayor with a hybrid plan of underground light rail and subway by the end of the month. It probably will include light rail running beneath Eglinton and an extension of the Sheppard subway to Scarborough Town Centre. A busway along Finch could replace plans for an LRT there.

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[From Joe Mihevc, councillor]

Sunday, January 9, 2pm - 4pm

Save Transit City Rally

Supporters of the Transit City are invited to attend a rally in front of Toronto City Hall (100 Queen Street West).

Take part in local democracy and make your voice heard!

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  • 1 month later...

I have a random question about Transit City.

So Rob Ford's new plan is to use a private/Public Partnership to build the Sheppard Subway.

Lets assume that this plan gets the go ahead. What happens to the order for LRT Cars placed with Bombardier? No one has factored in the cost of canceling all of these contracts?

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Lets assume that this plan gets the go ahead. What happens to the order for LRT Cars placed with Bombardier? No one has factored in the cost of canceling all of these contracts?

In theory, the LRT cars won't be cancelled since Eglinton will be an LRT subway. In reality, with the announcement that the SRT will be combined with the Eglinton line, there is the smell of ICTS technology in the air and Bombardier would be more than happy to switch the order from LRT cars to ICTS cars with no penalty.

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In theory, the LRT cars won't be cancelled since Eglinton will be an LRT subway. In reality, with the announcement that the SRT will be combined with the Eglinton line, there is the smell of ICTS technology in the air and Bombardier would be more than happy to switch the order from LRT cars to ICTS cars with no penalty.

I'd restate that as saying that Bombardier would be more concerned about the overall value of the contract rather than the specific number of cars being ordered, and if a switch to ART (Bombardier's current term for the technology) were to happen, the extra cost of that would likely compensate for the loss of the Finch cars.

The other side of it is that given the sunk costs of the contract, the net cost to the province to switch to ART may actually be relatively small at this point.

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Interesting to see if Ford is paying attention to this while he is writing up his scheme for the Sheppard line on his napkin.

Are condo prices set to fall?

Of particular note:

“Barring a further ramping up of multi-unit building, we expect these excess units can be absorbed without a major price adjustment,” said Warren. “The overall number of units under construction has stabilized, with current starts being matched by an equivalent level of completions.”
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  • 5 months later...

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