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Just now, 110B West Pickering said:

That doesn’t mean DRT is planning more routes, the 901 and 905 offer the connections from the OC, and Whitby GO, the 304 could return as per DRT’s plans, that’s still decent connectivity,

if the 910 came back in its routing, it would be an extension of the 917.

I think the 910 is mostly funded by the Ontario Tech, Durham College and Trent University anyways. Also the 917 does not use Thornton north of the Oshawa Centre.

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20 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

I think the 910 is mostly funded by the Ontario Tech, Durham College and Trent University anyways.

Trent and Ontario Tech/DC do not pay a single penny towards DRT’s operations of any route serving the campus.

A significant stream of revenue for DRT is the UPass agreement, but there’s no promise of any type of service from that agreement.

22 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

Also the 917 does not use Thornton north of the Oshawa Centre.

If you re-read my post, it says that if they’re to bring back the 910 it would be through an extension of the the 917. 
However, at this time, there is no plan for any returned service along Thornton. There is also no plan for any extension of the 917.

this is all based on DRT’s ridership recovery framework, and information from the TEC and TAC committee meetings and agendas.

DRT has made it clear, we are never returning to the old network and that all new additions will be planned with this network in mind. 
In April they are launching service related Public Information Centres that Will likely indicate DRT’s plan for September 2021 service changes and the service forecast for 2022

Other item to note, 8975-8980 have all now been retired and ones that haven’t already are in the process of being auctioned off.

8981 and 8436 are retained as Pandemic Mobile clinics

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I think there should still be a Thornton based route. @ Gamer Studios, it could be best to attend the Service virtual PiC and let them know. A route along Thornton, between Ishawa Centre and Taunton (409), even if it means a transfer to the 905 along Taunton might be feasible as long as the transfer is to a much more frequent 905, for instance. Could be a good alternative, compared to nothing at all.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, newflyerinvero said:

I think there should still be a Thornton based route. @ Gamer Studios, it could be best to attend the Service virtual PiC and let them know. A route along Thornton, between Ishawa Centre and Taunton (409), even if it means a transfer to the 905 along Taunton might be feasible as long as the transfer is to a much more frequent 905, for instance. Could be a good alternative, compared to nothing at all.

 

 

Thornton between Taunton Street and Gibb Street was served mostly by the 910 prior to the onset of COVID. That route was mostly intended for students of Trent U Durham, Ontario Tech University and Durham College. It ran from Ontario Tech to Whitby Station via the Oshawa Centre Terminal.

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5 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

DRT as of right now has no plans to bring back the 910, it’s better served by the Simcoe Corridor anyway,

the 910 used to run down Simcoe to Rossland previously and now with the B,

Given from the recent service announcements, I think that DRT should drop the C branch (weekends only), and upgrade the B branch to all-day everyday service (including weekends)

5 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

in the future I’d like to see a new 417 service that would operate from the OC  to Harmony Terminal DC using Thornton and Collins Road

the 417 prepandemic was one of the highest ridership weekday routes

By the way, is there any word from DRT for which routes that are new and/or reinstated? I would assume it will start at September given that DC/ONT are planning to return in-person classes and given the acceleration of the vaccine rollout as well.

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2 minutes ago, senzation#3 said:

Given from the recent service announcements, I think that DRT should drop the C branch (weekends only), and upgrade the B branch to all-day everyday service (including weekends)

By the way, is there any word from DRT for which routes that are new and/or reinstated? I would assume it will start at September given that DC/ONT are planning to return in-person classes and given the acceleration of the vaccine rollout as well.

Trent is also planning for a return as well. A lot of Trent's students utilize the 910 Campus Connect to connect with the GO services at Ontario Tech

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6 hours ago, Gamer Studios said:

Trent is also planning for a return as well. A lot of Trent's students utilize the 910 Campus Connect to connect with the GO services at Ontario Tech

A "private shuttle" could fill the void between Trent University's Oshawa Campus and the Durham College Oshawa campus to the north and the Oshawa Centre to the south, but it'll be a matter of time until a complaint has been filed by DRT to the OHTB (Ontario Highway Tribunal Board)!

 

10 hours ago, newflyerinvero said:

I think there should still be a Thornton based route. @ Gamer Studios, it could be best to attend the Service virtual PiC and let them know. A route along Thornton, between Ishawa Centre and Taunton (409), even if it means a transfer to the 905 along Taunton might be feasible as long as the transfer is to a much more frequent 905, for instance. Could be a good alternative, compared to nothing at all.

 

 

Have to totally agree with you. It would definitely help support the people who live within the vicnity of the 915 and 916 bus routes, but so far it's unlikely.

Last week, I've did a second run of the On-Demand service (but there was a flaw - not the vehicle that I requested but it has to do when I tried to validate my PRESTO Card on the reader (IIRC, it was a smartphone-like device that acts as a reader and that reader was located in the driver area wrapped under a curtain-like clear plastic screen - to protect the driver).

The bus driver told me that I have to hold the card on the reader for at least 10 to 15 seconds, until he gave me a visual confirmation that my tap was successful. It would have been nice if I the validation/confirmation tone was a bit louder but a non-verbal confirmation from the driver suffices. It's a bit of a minor inconvenience but the overall, the OnDemand service has been good.

FYI, IIRC = If I remembered correctly

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13 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

Do you realize how most of the units right now seem to be out of Whitby division?

Yes.

It makes sense, they have the least fleet requirements, and lots of extra units laying around, hence the 89xx’s and 2008s retiring there.

There are still a few active 2007 units and still plenty of 2008’s active

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16 minutes ago, 110B West Pickering said:

Yes.

It makes sense, they have the least fleet requirements, and lots of extra units laying around, hence the 89xx’s and 2008s retiring there.

There are still a few active 2007 units and still plenty of 2008’s active

I think they need 8-10 buses at any give time (keeping in mind having 1 or 2 spares) with these service levels

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10 minutes ago, Gamer Studios said:

I think they need 8-10 buses at any give time (keeping in mind having 1 or 2 spares) with these service levels

In peak the 302 uses 5 buses

The 905 uses 6 and 

the 917 uses 3 Whitby buses.

They’ve still got plenty of vehicles laying around to meet demand and a healthy spare ratio

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1 hour ago, 110B West Pickering said:

They’ve still got plenty of vehicles laying around to meet demand and a healthy spare ratio

Which is what happens when you have only 17 routes to serve a region that spans six municipalities. That's right. I'm not going to let them forget their misguided decision to cut 40 routes.

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2 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

In peak the 302 uses 5 buses

The 905 uses 6 and 

the 917 uses 3 Whitby buses.

They’ve still got plenty of vehicles laying around to meet demand and a healthy spare ratio

I thought the 917 uses 2 Whitby and 2 Westney units

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I think DRT might be in a good situation by September, depending on what routes and jew routes are brought back.

However@110B West Pickering, do you have a good idea when the 11 Nova Hybrids and 8 Electric buses (whatever they become), could arrive?These could replenish the fleet from what was lost from the recent retirements of mthe 2008 D40LFs.

But, if DRT has grander plans to bring more needed services without the amount of the fleet that's available, any indication if short-term leased buses, with options of future purchase?

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So...

DRT has released information surrounding the service related Public Information Centres. The point is to guide the next 5 Year Service Strategy titled "The Route Ahead"

The documents provided by DRT do not share many details about specifics, other than a map, some guiding principals and some service standards... but, that wont stop me from trying to interpret it here.

It's worth noting, OnDemand isn't going anywhere... I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing depending on where it is or how it is used, but it is staying in areas that just simply can't financially support routes. 

Major stuff

PULSE network expansion, (10 Years outlook)

- 900 extended to Central Oshawa GO,

- 901 extended to Windfield Farms (Development is booming up there)

- 902 will be added to the PULSE network, same service pattern by the looks of it with frequent service between Oshawa Centre/Thornton Corners and Trulls, and 30 minute service between Thornton Corners and Bowmanville.

- 915 and 916 will simply be converted to PULSE (much like the 901 was) with 15 minute service on weekends as well.

Late Night Service and 24 Hour service

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would DRT be the first system in Canada for a municipality of its size and a system of its ridership to implement 24 hour service? 

- It mentions talks of adding trips to the 900 and 901, and making OnDemand available until at least the last GO train throughout the urbanized areas of the region, not sure where the 24 hour service comes in, but we will see.

- The 905 will have new trips later into the night, but no specifics. I assume this will be on the 905B to Port Perry and Uxbridge as this is detailed in the "rural" subheading 

- Rural OnDemand service span will be increased to match that of the 905.

Other stuff

Peak = 30 minutes or better in Peak only

Local = 30 minutes

Grid = 30 minutes or better 7 days per week,

Frequent = 15 minutes or better 7 days per week

The map DRT attached sucks and is really cluttered, no route numbers and lines of the same colour overlapping, (someone try to work out Bowmanville, thats my challenge to everyone) 

Things I can decipher, theres some route resurrections proposed over the next 4 years...

Pickering

101 looks unchanged, but with local all day service

110B looks to form its old routing but on its own local route, 

New local service to current seaton developments along the currently unbuilt Rossland Road Extension north to Taunton and Burkholder Drive. 

Ajax

New local service (211 presumably) from Pickering Parkway Terminal to Ajax GO via Pickering Parkway, Kingston, Church, Delany, Ravenscroft, and Westney. 

New peak route (219 presumably) from Ajax GO to Westney and Williamson via Westney, Ravenscroft, Williamson, Westney, Rossland, Ravenscroft.

New local (circular?) route (217 or 226?) from Ajax GO that covers parts of the former 226 and 217 routes, including Lake Driveway, Westney South, and Clements Road.

New peak route (215? presumably) from Ajax GO to Audley and Williamson via Salem.

291 looks to be classified as a local route, but I doubt its getting anything above hourly service.

New local service (223 probably) its the old routing of the 223c, but running all day.

Whitby

303, and the 308 looks to be coming back relatively unchanged

New peak route (315 I assume) from Whitby GO serving areas included in the West Whitby Secondary Plan, Brock Street, Burns, Annes, Dundas, Des Newman, Rossland, Coronation, Taunton, Country Lane, Rossland, back to Whitby GO.

New local route (312) from Thornton Corners East GO to West Whitby via Thornton, King/Dundas, Kendalwood, Nichol, Glen Hill, Dundas, McQuay... that it, where it goes beyond there isn't on the map, but as per the Ridership Recover Framework Phase 2, along rossland to Cochrane, then Bonacord back to McQuay Boulevard.

New local 304 service from Whitby GO, along Burns, and Anderson into Brooklin, then Winchester, Cachet, Carnwith, Baldwin and Winchester back to Anderson and Whitby GO. This makes the 304 the Brooklin Local bus instead of the 302.

The 302 in brooklin will now serve Baldwin, Vipond, Ashburn, Carnwith, Thickson, Winchester east to Simcoe and will loop at Windfield Farms, connecting to the 901 PULSE Simcoe.

The 905 is unchanged in Whitby, but changes in Oshawa will be located below.

Oshawa

Some routes are back! all have some major changes, including changes to reflect the LSE GO Bowmanville Extension.

New Local service (412) from Thronton Corners GO to Oshawa Central GO via Thornton Road, Adelaide, Fleetwood, Margate, Townline, Olive, Ritson and First. 

New Local service (411) from Thronton Corners GO to Trulls and Highway 2 via Laval, Stevenson, Gibb, Park, Hillside, Cuber, Bloor, Grandview, Townline, Gord Vinson, Meadowglade, Prestonvale, Glen Abbey, Sandringham, Trulls, Avondale, Sandringham, Courtice Road, George Reynolds, Nash, Trulls and return somehow.

403 looks unchanged, but loops at Thornton Corners GO via Gibb, Stevenson and Laval.

410 Extension from Coldstream to Conlin then Harmony down,

905A reroute Simcoe, Britannia West, Windfield Farms, Bridle, Britannia East, Harmony, to Harmony Terminal, 

New Local service from Durham College to Harmony terminal (417 probably) using Simcoe, Conlin, Harmony. 

Bowamnville...

nope. 

Heres the map. remember, its all going to PICs' meaning, changes will likely take place once details are finalized, below the map is also a link to the presentation boards. 

image.thumb.png.dc7fce54120c97415936a259a2fe2a2a.png

https://www.durhamregiontransit.com/en/routes-and-schedules/resources/PICs-2021/RecoveryPlanPIC2021_Final_V2.pdf 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

So...

DRT has released information surrounding the service related Public Information Centres. The point is to guide the next 5 Year Service Strategy titled "The Route Ahead"

The documents provided by DRT do not share many details about specifics, other than a map, some guiding principals and some service standards... but, that wont stop me from trying to interpret it here.

It's worth noting, OnDemand isn't going anywhere... I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing depending on where it is or how it is used, but it is staying in areas that just simply can't financially support routes. 

Major stuff

PULSE network expansion, (10 Years outlook)

- 900 extended to Central Oshawa GO,

- 901 extended to Windfield Farms (Development is booming up there)

- 902 will be added to the PULSE network, same service pattern by the looks of it with frequent service between Oshawa Centre/Thornton Corners and Trulls, and 30 minute service between Thornton Corners and Bowmanville.

- 915 and 916 will simply be converted to PULSE (much like the 901 was) with 15 minute service on weekends as well.

Late Night Service and 24 Hour service

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would DRT be the first system in Canada for a municipality of its size and a system of its ridership to implement 24 hour service? 

- It mentions talks of adding trips to the 900 and 901, and making OnDemand available until at least the last GO train throughout the urbanized areas of the region, not sure where the 24 hour service comes in, but we will see.

- The 905 will have new trips later into the night, but no specifics. I assume this will be on the 905B to Port Perry and Uxbridge as this is detailed in the "rural" subheading 

- Rural OnDemand service span will be increased to match that of the 905.

Other stuff

Peak = 30 minutes or better in Peak only

Local = 30 minutes

Grid = 30 minutes or better 7 days per week,

Frequent = 15 minutes or better 7 days per week

The map DRT attached sucks and is really cluttered, no route numbers and lines of the same colour overlapping, (someone try to work out Bowmanville, thats my challenge to everyone) 

Things I can decipher, theres some route resurrections proposed over the next 4 years...

Pickering

101 looks unchanged, but with local all day service

110B looks to form its old routing but on its own local route, 

New local service to current seaton developments along the currently unbuilt Rossland Road Extension north to Taunton and Burkholder Drive. 

Ajax

New local service (211 presumably) from Pickering Parkway Terminal to Ajax GO via Pickering Parkway, Kingston, Church, Delany, Ravenscroft, and Westney. 

New peak route (219 presumably) from Ajax GO to Westney and Williamson via Westney, Ravenscroft, Williamson, Westney, Rossland, Ravenscroft.

New local (circular?) route (217 or 226?) from Ajax GO that covers parts of the former 226 and 217 routes, including Lake Driveway, Westney South, and Clements Road.

New peak route (215? presumably) from Ajax GO to Audley and Williamson via Salem.

291 looks to be classified as a local route, but I doubt its getting anything above hourly service.

New local service (223 probably) its the old routing of the 223c, but running all day.

Whitby

303, and the 308 looks to be coming back relatively unchanged

New peak route (315 I assume) from Whitby GO serving areas included in the West Whitby Secondary Plan, Brock Street, Burns, Annes, Dundas, Des Newman, Rossland, Coronation, Taunton, Country Lane, Rossland, back to Whitby GO.

New local route (312) from Thornton Corners East GO to West Whitby via Thornton, King/Dundas, Kendalwood, Nichol, Glen Hill, Dundas, McQuay... that it, where it goes beyond there isn't on the map, but as per the Ridership Recover Framework Phase 2, along rossland to Cochrane, then Bonacord back to McQuay Boulevard.

New local 304 service from Whitby GO, along Burns, and Anderson into Brooklin, then Winchester, Cachet, Carnwith, Baldwin and Winchester back to Anderson and Whitby GO. This makes the 304 the Brooklin Local bus instead of the 302.

The 302 in brooklin will now serve Baldwin, Vipond, Ashburn, Carnwith, Thickson, Winchester east to Simcoe and will loop at Windfield Farms, connecting to the 901 PULSE Simcoe.

The 905 is unchanged in Whitby, but changes in Oshawa will be located below.

Oshawa

Some routes are back! all have some major changes, including changes to reflect the LSE GO Bowmanville Extension.

New Local service (412) from Thronton Corners GO to Oshawa Central GO via Thornton Road, Adelaide, Fleetwood, Margate, Townline, Olive, Ritson and First. 

New Local service (411) from Thronton Corners GO to Trulls and Highway 2 via Laval, Stevenson, Gibb, Park, Hillside, Cuber, Bloor, Grandview, Townline, Gord Vinson, Meadowglade, Prestonvale, Glen Abbey, Sandringham, Trulls, Avondale, Sandringham, Courtice Road, George Reynolds, Nash, Trulls and return somehow.

403 looks unchanged, but loops at Thornton Corners GO via Gibb, Stevenson and Laval.

410 Extension from Coldstream to Conlin then Harmony down,

905A reroute Simcoe, Britannia West, Windfield Farms, Bridle, Britannia East, Harmony, to Harmony Terminal, 

New Local service from Durham College to Harmony terminal (417 probably) using Simcoe, Conlin, Harmony. 

Bowamnville...

nope. 

Heres the map. remember, its all going to PICs' meaning, changes will likely take place once details are finalized, below the map is also a link to the presentation boards. 

image.thumb.png.dc7fce54120c97415936a259a2fe2a2a.png

https://www.durhamregiontransit.com/en/routes-and-schedules/resources/PICs-2021/RecoveryPlanPIC2021_Final_V2.pdf 

 

 

 

 

I was anticipating that the On-demand will be expanded in some form (especially those neighbourhoods that once had a bus route but not anymore - the 225 for example), but we'll see on what beyond the five year plan will be. 

As for the 101, the biggest clientele who uses that route are the employees at OPG and HO (OPG = Ontario Power Generation, HO = Hydro One) among other businesses within the southern part of the Industrial Area in Pickering. 

For the Oshawa routes you had mentioned, I'm not sure how will that play a role for students attending Durham College (both the Whitby and Oshawa campuses) , OTU (Ontario Tech University) and TUO (Trent University Oshawa)? 

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On 4/16/2021 at 2:40 PM, 110B West Pickering said:

Late Night Service and 24 Hour service

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would DRT be the first system in Canada for a municipality of its size and a system of its ridership to implement 24 hour service? 

- It mentions talks of adding trips to the 900 and 901, and making OnDemand available until at least the last GO train throughout the urbanized areas of the region, not sure where the 24 hour service comes in, but we will see.

- The 905 will have new trips later into the night, but no specifics. I assume this will be on the 905B to Port Perry and Uxbridge as this is detailed in the "rural" subheading 

- Rural OnDemand service span will be increased to match that of the 905.

 

 

 

 

 

  • What I do know is that the major cities in Canada (Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal) have 24/7 service, because they the demand to support that kind of service. Durham region doesn't have the demand to support 24 hour service unless all business in Durham region open 24/7 and if office work is expanded to afternoon and night shifts
  • I've read the PIC and I think there is a contradiction in that presentation. For example, on the service initiatives section, for availability they said that the goal is to 'phase in 24 hour transit service' and they say on the action part to 'study opportunities for 24 hour service'. Would it just make sense to say to 'phase in late night transit service rather than 24 hours unless they expand On Demand service for 24 hours
  • The two late night bus routes 403C and 980 is a good service is a good idea. However, the flaw of that is that the schedule doesn't really align with most industrial shifts (Afternoon: 4 pm -12 am, Night: 12 am - 8 am)
  • Since the presentation lacks any details, I'm very skeptical that DRT will implement that kind of service by 2025. I think the Bowmanville extension by 2025 (4 years) is way too optimistic

 

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On 4/16/2021 at 2:40 PM, 110B West Pickering said:

...

Late Night Service and 24 Hour service

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would DRT be the first system in Canada for a municipality of its size and a system of its ridership to implement 24 hour service? 

- It mentions talks of adding trips to the 900 and 901, and making OnDemand available until at least the last GO train throughout the urbanized areas of the region, not sure where the 24 hour service comes in, but we will see.

- The 905 will have new trips later into the night, but no specifics. I assume this will be on the 905B to Port Perry and Uxbridge as this is detailed in the "rural" subheading 

- Rural OnDemand service span will be increased to match that of the 905.

...

Heres the map. remember, its all going to PICs' meaning, changes will likely take place once details are finalized, below the map is also a link to the presentation boards. 

image.thumb.png.dc7fce54120c97415936a259a2fe2a2a.png

https://www.durhamregiontransit.com/en/routes-and-schedules/resources/PICs-2021/RecoveryPlanPIC2021_Final_V2.pdf 

I'm not sure what you want to use as a metric for comparison for municipalities with 24-hour service.  I will presume that large centres like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver are in a tier unto themselves.  Mississauga is still in a pilot phase of their 24-hour service which currently consist of only 4 routes (5 if you count the one which was split in two), 3 of which connect with the TTC's Blue Night service and only run on weekdays.  There are large overnight employment areas that don't have overnight service either from MiWay or the one 24-hour GO Transit bus route which runs through Mississauga.

I don't know how pandemic ridership is affecting these routes as they still cater to a lot of essential workers.  It's not as if there are transit enthusiasts riding these at 3:00AM!  If DRT does decide to follow a similar route they'd probably start first with the 900 which connects with the TTC's Blue Night Service along Ellesmere and just misses out on the connection to the service along Morningside (perhaps a loop around the block instead of using the Centennial College loop?).  Other 900-series routes since they're region-wide can be added with the initial rollout (901, 915, 916 similar to the 2025 Frequent Network in the map above) to provide some basic coverage.  I assume there'd be some consultation with businesses operating 24-hours that would lead to further modifications to the system.

The problem with such a skeletal initial rollout in Mississauga and Durham is that there are few opportunities to make transfers and virtually none in between the terminus points.  Even the 24-hour GO Bus route only makes stops at Pearson, Renforth Transitway, Dixie Transitway (no connections) and Square One.  Pardon the hastily made Mississauga overnight map.

image.thumb.png.2e8ee70aea5e99677819e2c3b7a1b82f.png

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The only thing I gathered for 24 hour transit service is the only one with OnDemand Transit service.

 

Though, in my opinion, the 900-based routes could be far better and have a 24-hour OnDemand supplement it.

 

Regarding the other routes coming back, unless it's my eyes, is there a proposed route that heads north on Thornton from Oshawa Centre that serves Trent University just before King? I still think a 4p9 that serves Thornton and Stevenson, whether it's one way or two way service can be a good way to connecting other grid routes.

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1 hour ago, newflyerinvero said:

Regarding the other routes coming back, unless it's my eyes, is there a proposed route that heads north on Thornton from Oshawa Centre that serves Trent University just before King? I still think a 4p9 that serves Thornton and Stevenson, whether it's one way or two way service can be a good way to connecting other grid routes.

Trent will be served on Thornton by route 412 And 312.

North South service on Thornton will only be between Thornton Corners GO and Adelaide

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On 4/18/2021 at 5:46 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Regarding the other routes coming back, unless it's my eyes, is there a proposed route that heads north on Thornton from Oshawa Centre that serves Trent University just before King? I still think a 4p9 that serves Thornton and Stevenson, whether it's one way or two way service can be a good way to connecting other grid routes.

A simple solution to this would be introducing service on Dryden Boulevard. The long awaited bridging of the gap between Anderson and Thickson was completed several months back, enabling continuous service along the corridor. A loop around 605 Rossland, and heading east along Dryden to Thornton, straight down to Thornton Corners. Peak directional, with limited midday service between Thornton/Dryden & 605. 

A case could also be made for bringing back the old 469/470 School Trippers, and repurposing them as GO Shuttles. Bi-directional in peak periods, northbound to serve MCVI and Paul Dwyer in the morning, returning south to serve Thornton Corners... vice versa in the PM Rush. 

Most of the ridership on the Thornton corridor were students.

 

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