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12 hours ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

No Nova Artics on order anymore?

I don't think they were going to order anymore artics initially... But with the large boost in express services that the TTC wants to implement, that may change down the road.

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18 minutes ago, sdgta2008 said:

I don't think they were going to order anymore artics initially... But with the large boost in express services that the TTC wants to implement, that may change down the road.

Please delete

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On 10/19/2017 at 3:08 AM, Seb_CITL said:

24 Nova LFS ?, According to my information it would have 13 Nova for Durhan for this end years

I would be under the assumption that the speculated 11, would appear next year (2018)

16 hours ago, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

No Nova Artics on order anymore?

No, not in the foreseeable future atleast.

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5 hours ago, J. Bullock said:

I would be under the assumption that the speculated 11, would appear next year (2018)

No, not in the foreseeable future atleast.

If there is no confirmation of the 11 buses, why are we even discussing them.

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Did anyone spot a PULSE-liveried XD40 heading eastbound on Highway 401 this morning sometime after 7:30? When I saw it, it was just west of Meadowvale, and immediately thought it could be highway testing in case PULSE ever reaches STC. But then as I write this message I realized it could just be a deadheading bus, although I personally can't imagine why deadheading would be necessary as the bus was heading away from the UTSC terminus and the end of the peak service was still at least another hour and a half away.

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8 hours ago, ADB said:

If there is no confirmation of the 11 buses, why are we even discussing them.

I confirm has 13 Nova LFS via Metrolinx Consortium for this year

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16 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Did anyone spot a PULSE-liveried XD40 heading eastbound on Highway 401 this morning sometime after 7:30? When I saw it, it was just west of Meadowvale, and immediately thought it could be highway testing in case PULSE ever reaches STC. But then as I write this message I realized it could just be a deadheading bus, although I personally can't imagine why deadheading would be necessary as the bus was heading away from the UTSC terminus and the end of the peak service was still at least another hour and a half away.

I’ll bet they did it just to mess with your head.

  • Haha 2

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On 2017-10-20 at 12:16 PM, J. Bullock said:

I would be under the assumption that the speculated 11, would appear next year (2018)

 

On 2017-10-20 at 5:32 PM, ADB said:

If there is no confirmation of the 11 buses, why are we even discussing them.

They aren’t speculated and they were ordered with PTIF Dollars

8566-8578 (2017) are to start delivery by mid November carrying into January and then...

8579-8589 (2018) are all to be delivered by nova by the PTIF deadline of March 31st 2018 

(I can attach a link if you want me to)

8590-8593 would be 2018 units as well however fleet number is unconfirmed

On 2017-10-19 at 8:09 PM, TTC T6H-5307N 2252 said:

No Nova Artics on order anymore?

As for attics, not for the foreseeable future unfortuneatly.

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Been more curious as of late with the route numbering system as it relates to what numbering pattern specifically is meant for.

I can understand how 900-series routes be for inter-regional services, perhaps with the exception of the 922, to which is essentially an Oshawa route now between Oshawa GO and Harmony Terminal. Should it be given a 400-series number because of it? And with the 900's being meant for regional, the new (or potential) 901 - Pulse Simcoe would break all of those routes seeing as it too would be solely in Oshawa. Would it be best to have that route be the former 401X, UOIT/Oshawa Centre via Downtown?

The other two nitpicks I notice are the 223 which is somewhat regional although it serves just Ajax and Pickering. I suppose that those 'local' numbers can be based more so on where the route is originating from. Though with that statement, the argument can be made for a 123, too. At least the 923 was a bit regional even though the main part of Durham it served was Pickering.
Would the 232, if it was going to end up serving Pickering Parkway or Pickering GO, could it be a 932, or just the 232?

The north routes can be another discussion. Has DRT internally thought of looking at a more broader numbering system perhaps?

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On 10/31/2017 at 4:50 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Been more curious as of late with the route numbering system as it relates to what numbering pattern specifically is meant for.

I can understand how 900-series routes be for inter-regional services, perhaps with the exception of the 922, to which is essentially an Oshawa route now between Oshawa GO and Harmony Terminal. Should it be given a 400-series number because of it? And with the 900's being meant for regional, the new (or potential) 901 - Pulse Simcoe would break all of those routes seeing as it too would be solely in Oshawa. Would it be best to have that route be the former 401X, UOIT/Oshawa Centre via Downtown?

The other two nitpicks I notice are the 223 which is somewhat regional although it serves just Ajax and Pickering. I suppose that those 'local' numbers can be based more so on where the route is originating from. Though with that statement, the argument can be made for a 123, too. At least the 923 was a bit regional even though the main part of Durham it served was Pickering.
Would the 232, if it was going to end up serving Pickering Parkway or Pickering GO, could it be a 932, or just the 232?

The north routes can be another discussion. Has DRT internally thought of looking at a more broader numbering system perhaps?

 

922 serves Whitby GO (hence the 9xx), however, it is listed under the "Central" routes section (along with the 910) on DRT's website. Central is Whitby, 3xx. 

I think that DRT is trying to capitalize on their BRT brand with a 9xx series format. I'd like to think that all 9xx series will become part of the Pulse network some day, but a mere pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

A nitpick for sure. The "223" serves mostly Ajax, if that helps. They renumbered to reduce the confusion from the 923.

It would probably still be the 232. Ajax/Pickering is a pretty blurry border, and i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a top priority to renumber a route.

Also keep in mind the 9xx are more of base routes as opposed to feeder ones. So that would be another reason why it wouldn't be renumbered, the 232 is a feeder to the 900 and 916.

North is 6xx. End of discussion there. (601, 603, 651, 652, etc)

The numbering system has done Durham well for the last 10 years. I don't think there will be any sort of shift in the coming future.

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2 hours ago, J. Bullock said:

 

922 serves Whitby GO (hence the 9xx), however, it is listed under the "Central" routes section (along with the 910) on DRT's website. Central is Whitby, 3xx. 

I think that DRT is trying to capitalize on their BRT brand with a 9xx series format. I'd like to think that all 9xx series will become part of the Pulse network some day, but a mere pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

A nitpick for sure. The "223" serves mostly Ajax, if that helps. They renumbered to reduce the confusion from the 923.

It would probably still be the 232. Ajax/Pickering is a pretty blurry border, and i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a top priority to renumber a route.

Also keep in mind the 9xx are more of base routes as opposed to feeder ones. So that would be another reason why it wouldn't be renumbered, the 232 is a feeder to the 900 and 916.

North is 6xx. End of discussion there. (601, 603, 651, 652, etc)

The numbering system has done Durham well for the last 10 years. I don't think there will be any sort of shift in the coming future.

I think there is some room for discussion about some changes here though, I’ll provide a few examples

next year it is planned for the 922 to be cut back to Oshawa GO, meaning this route would operate only in Oshawa yet still be a 9xx route, however the 403 will replace service on Victoria and the port Whitby area, yet not be renumbered to a regional number.

960 is considered Regional despite it only crossing one municipal boundary into York, however the 601 runs through 3 yet it’s still a 6xx, but the 950 also crosses 3 yet its a 9xx. Very little consistency up north.

310 crosses between Brooklin (whitby) and Oshawa, yet the 910 which also crosses Whitby and Oshawa is considered a 9xx route.

i also also agree that PULSE should have the 9xx but in reality, in the foreseeable future there will only be a 900, 901 and 915 PULSE service. 

They need to do a cleanup of their numbering, I would like to see a number system like York’s, however the current system does work great, as long as they can work out the inconsistances that they have in it right now.

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On 11/2/2017 at 12:55 AM, 110B West Pickering said:

I think there is some room for discussion about some changes here though, I’ll provide a few examples

next year it is planned for the 922 to be cut back to Oshawa GO, meaning this route would operate only in Oshawa yet still be a 9xx route, however the 403 will replace service on Victoria and the port Whitby area, yet not be renumbered to a regional number.

960 is considered Regional despite it only crossing one municipal boundary into York, however the 601 runs through 3 yet it’s still a 6xx, but the 950 also crosses 3 yet its a 9xx. Very little consistency up north.

310 crosses between Brooklin (whitby) and Oshawa, yet the 910 which also crosses Whitby and Oshawa is considered a 9xx route.

i also also agree that PULSE should have the 9xx but in reality, in the foreseeable future there will only be a 900, 901 and 915 PULSE service. 

They need to do a cleanup of their numbering, I would like to see a number system like York’s, however the current system does work great, as long as they can work out the inconsistances that they have in it right now.

You've effectively pointed out the problems with the "first digit says where" route numbering system.  In the south, the barriers between municipalities are porous and as DRT increasingly evolves, there will be more routes that weave between municipalities.  In the North, municipalities are further away but the whole point of DRT service there is to connect those, ahem, communities.  

Attempting to reliably determine which category a route belongs in, particularly when it evolves over time, is bound to fail.   And frankly, I think DRT has outgrown its early need for the numbering system to describe "where" - that was a useful tool to help the public understand a fledgling operation, but riders understand where routes run (or can easily find out with tools that were unavailable when DRT was created).  There's also little value in, say, PIckering riders mostly seeing a 1 in front of their numbers.  It just doesn't add anything.

There's clearly room for improvement here. I agree with your suggestion of moving to a YRT-like system, where the numbering prioritizes what kind of service a route is rather than where it is.  A good start would be to move the Pulse routes to single digit numbers.

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58 minutes ago, DavidH said:

You've effectively pointed out the problems with the "first digit says where" route numbering system.  In the south, the barriers between municipalities are porous and as DRT increasingly evolves, there will be more routes that weave between municipalities.  In the North, municipalities are further away but the whole point of DRT service there is to connect those, ahem, communities.  

Attempting to reliably determine which category a route belongs in, particularly when it evolves over time, is bound to fail.   And frankly, I think DRT has outgrown its early need for the numbering system to describe "where" - that was a useful tool to help the public understand a fledgling operation, but riders understand where routes run (or can easily find out with tools that were unavailable when DRT was created).  There's also little value in, say, PIckering riders mostly seeing a 1 in front of their numbers.  It just doesn't add anything.

There's clearly room for improvement here. I agree with your suggestion of moving to a YRT-like system, where the numbering prioritizes what kind of service a route is rather than where it is.  A good start would be to move the Pulse routes to single digit numbers.

As for PULSE i think the most probable solution is removing the route numbers entirely.

PULSE-Highway 2

PULSE-Simcoe Street 

PULSE-Taunton via Westney

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4 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

As for PULSE i think the most probable solution is removing the route numbers entirely.

PULSE-Highway 2

PULSE-Simcoe Street 

PULSE-Taunton via Westney

Dunno.  I think average riders are well served by route numbers, because it's easy to match what they were told/saw in a map/etc against what's on the bus in front of the them.  Matching up a bunch of words is harder and more prone to error.

 

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I personally don't think DRT would waste $ on renumbering routes because borders are becoming increasingly "porous". I can count on one hand where borders in Durham may be blurry, solely the difference between Oshawa/Whitby, and Ajax/Pickering. If you're a landed resident to the area, you definitely know the change in hands. Unless Durham Region becomes a megacity (Toronto 1998), I don't see a point in renumbering... even then it would still be questionable.

What do you mean a "YRT" based numbering system. DRT and YRT are very similar...

2x-Vaughan
3x-Aurora
4/5x-Newmarket
6x-King

of course, the numbering varies, 23 is Thornhill in Vaughan, 24 is Woodbine in RH/Markham, so of course there's quite a few exceptions.
 

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2 hours ago, J. Bullock said:

I personally don't think DRT would waste $ on renumbering routes because borders are becoming increasingly "porous". I can count on one hand where borders in Durham may be blurry, solely the difference between Oshawa/Whitby, and Ajax/Pickering. If you're a landed resident to the area, you definitely know the change in hands. Unless Durham Region becomes a megacity (Toronto 1998), I don't see a point in renumbering... even then it would still be questionable.

What do you mean a "YRT" based numbering system. DRT and YRT are very similar...

2x-Vaughan
3x-Aurora
4/5x-Newmarket
6x-King

of course, the numbering varies, 23 is Thornhill in Vaughan, 24 is Woodbine in RH/Markham, so of course there's quite a few exceptions.
 

Grouping service numbers by service type, then by area in which they serve.

01-199 Regular routes

Examples:

31-33 are services operating in Aurora

50-58 all service The northern area of York

in Durham, this can also easily be broken up by the municipality

200-299 Shuttle Services

In Durham, these could be easily wind up being late night shuttles and/or On Demand Services

300-399 Express Services

In Durham, if they ever decided to operate express routes ever again

400-499 School Routes

Don't think this will happen here 

500-599 Community Services

Our community busses could go here

600-699 BRT Services (Numbers internal only)

PULSE?

700< Special Services

Canada Day Shuttles?

 

Soooo... while stealing York's route numbering outline is not at all completely practical, I think that if Durham were ever to completely change numbering strategies, that York's would be a good model outline.

 

 

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14 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

Grouping service numbers by service type, then by area in which they serve.

01-199 Regular routes

Examples:

31-33 are services operating in Aurora

50-58 all service The northern area of York

in Durham, this can also easily be broken up by the municipality

200-299 Shuttle Services

In Durham, these could be easily wind up being late night shuttles and/or On Demand Services

300-399 Express Services

In Durham, if they ever decided to operate express routes ever again

400-499 School Routes

Don't think this will happen here 

500-599 Community Services

Our community busses could go here

600-699 BRT Services (Numbers internal only)

PULSE?

700< Special Services

Canada Day Shuttles?

 

Soooo... while stealing York's route numbering outline is not at all completely practical, I think that if Durham were ever to completely change numbering strategies, that York's would be a good model outline.

 

 

This is literally the same thing though..?
Nothing you said is any different from what DRT does... just with variances of numbers. The point you raised is moot, YRT and DRT just go about it differently (ironic, they're different systems, huh ;))

DRT did do School Specials with different numbers by the way.. 464 Eastdale, 469 Dwyer/MCVI, 470 McLaughlin (4-Oshawa) and a different higher number away from conventional routes. HFN or "BRT" service is a 9xx... similar to 6xx for York... Sort of follows your "YRT" logic you described.

DRT doesn't need to change or copy anyone... their route scheme is fine.  I see the validity in your point, I just don't see the logic in changing it.


 

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58 minutes ago, J. Bullock said:

8611 changed off due to a “malfunctioning transmission” according to driver. 8621 was the change off at Mary/Bond Terminal. 

That used to happen all the time, with the continuous beeps from the front, however, I've been hearing it less and less lately.

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17 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

That used to happen all the time, with the continuous beeps from the front, however, I've been hearing it less and less lately.

How do you know it was related to the transmission?

 

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