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Did anyone spot a PULSE-liveried XD40 heading eastbound on Highway 401 this morning sometime after 7:30? When I saw it, it was just west of Meadowvale, and immediately thought it could be highway testing in case PULSE ever reaches STC. But then as I write this message I realized it could just be a deadheading bus, although I personally can't imagine why deadheading would be necessary as the bus was heading away from the UTSC terminus and the end of the peak service was still at least another hour and a half away.

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16 hours ago, Transit geek said:

Did anyone spot a PULSE-liveried XD40 heading eastbound on Highway 401 this morning sometime after 7:30? When I saw it, it was just west of Meadowvale, and immediately thought it could be highway testing in case PULSE ever reaches STC. But then as I write this message I realized it could just be a deadheading bus, although I personally can't imagine why deadheading would be necessary as the bus was heading away from the UTSC terminus and the end of the peak service was still at least another hour and a half away.

I’ll bet they did it just to mess with your head.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Been more curious as of late with the route numbering system as it relates to what numbering pattern specifically is meant for.

I can understand how 900-series routes be for inter-regional services, perhaps with the exception of the 922, to which is essentially an Oshawa route now between Oshawa GO and Harmony Terminal. Should it be given a 400-series number because of it? And with the 900's being meant for regional, the new (or potential) 901 - Pulse Simcoe would break all of those routes seeing as it too would be solely in Oshawa. Would it be best to have that route be the former 401X, UOIT/Oshawa Centre via Downtown?

The other two nitpicks I notice are the 223 which is somewhat regional although it serves just Ajax and Pickering. I suppose that those 'local' numbers can be based more so on where the route is originating from. Though with that statement, the argument can be made for a 123, too. At least the 923 was a bit regional even though the main part of Durham it served was Pickering.
Would the 232, if it was going to end up serving Pickering Parkway or Pickering GO, could it be a 932, or just the 232?

The north routes can be another discussion. Has DRT internally thought of looking at a more broader numbering system perhaps?

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On 10/31/2017 at 4:50 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Been more curious as of late with the route numbering system as it relates to what numbering pattern specifically is meant for.

 

I can understand how 900-series routes be for inter-regional services, perhaps with the exception of the 922, to which is essentially an Oshawa route now between Oshawa GO and Harmony Terminal. Should it be given a 400-series number because of it? And with the 900's being meant for regional, the new (or potential) 901 - Pulse Simcoe would break all of those routes seeing as it too would be solely in Oshawa. Would it be best to have that route be the former 401X, UOIT/Oshawa Centre via Downtown?

The other two nitpicks I notice are the 223 which is somewhat regional although it serves just Ajax and Pickering. I suppose that those 'local' numbers can be based more so on where the route is originating from. Though with that statement, the argument can be made for a 123, too. At least the 923 was a bit regional even though the main part of Durham it served was Pickering.

Would the 232, if it was going to end up serving Pickering Parkway or Pickering GO, could it be a 932, or just the 232?

 

The north routes can be another discussion. Has DRT internally thought of looking at a more broader numbering system perhaps?

 

922 serves Whitby GO (hence the 9xx), however, it is listed under the "Central" routes section (along with the 910) on DRT's website. Central is Whitby, 3xx. 

I think that DRT is trying to capitalize on their BRT brand with a 9xx series format. I'd like to think that all 9xx series will become part of the Pulse network some day, but a mere pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

A nitpick for sure. The "223" serves mostly Ajax, if that helps. They renumbered to reduce the confusion from the 923.

It would probably still be the 232. Ajax/Pickering is a pretty blurry border, and i'm pretty sure it wouldn't be a top priority to renumber a route.

Also keep in mind the 9xx are more of base routes as opposed to feeder ones. So that would be another reason why it wouldn't be renumbered, the 232 is a feeder to the 900 and 916.

North is 6xx. End of discussion there. (601, 603, 651, 652, etc)

The numbering system has done Durham well for the last 10 years. I don't think there will be any sort of shift in the coming future.

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On 11/2/2017 at 12:55 AM, 110B West Pickering said:

I think there is some room for discussion about some changes here though, I’ll provide a few examples

next year it is planned for the 922 to be cut back to Oshawa GO, meaning this route would operate only in Oshawa yet still be a 9xx route, however the 403 will replace service on Victoria and the port Whitby area, yet not be renumbered to a regional number.

960 is considered Regional despite it only crossing one municipal boundary into York, however the 601 runs through 3 yet it’s still a 6xx, but the 950 also crosses 3 yet its a 9xx. Very little consistency up north.

310 crosses between Brooklin (whitby) and Oshawa, yet the 910 which also crosses Whitby and Oshawa is considered a 9xx route.

i also also agree that PULSE should have the 9xx but in reality, in the foreseeable future there will only be a 900, 901 and 915 PULSE service. 

They need to do a cleanup of their numbering, I would like to see a number system like York’s, however the current system does work great, as long as they can work out the inconsistances that they have in it right now.

You've effectively pointed out the problems with the "first digit says where" route numbering system.  In the south, the barriers between municipalities are porous and as DRT increasingly evolves, there will be more routes that weave between municipalities.  In the North, municipalities are further away but the whole point of DRT service there is to connect those, ahem, communities.  

Attempting to reliably determine which category a route belongs in, particularly when it evolves over time, is bound to fail.   And frankly, I think DRT has outgrown its early need for the numbering system to describe "where" - that was a useful tool to help the public understand a fledgling operation, but riders understand where routes run (or can easily find out with tools that were unavailable when DRT was created).  There's also little value in, say, PIckering riders mostly seeing a 1 in front of their numbers.  It just doesn't add anything.

There's clearly room for improvement here. I agree with your suggestion of moving to a YRT-like system, where the numbering prioritizes what kind of service a route is rather than where it is.  A good start would be to move the Pulse routes to single digit numbers.

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4 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

As for PULSE i think the most probable solution is removing the route numbers entirely.

PULSE-Highway 2

PULSE-Simcoe Street 

PULSE-Taunton via Westney

Dunno.  I think average riders are well served by route numbers, because it's easy to match what they were told/saw in a map/etc against what's on the bus in front of the them.  Matching up a bunch of words is harder and more prone to error.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I personally don't think DRT would waste $ on renumbering routes because borders are becoming increasingly "porous". I can count on one hand where borders in Durham may be blurry, solely the difference between Oshawa/Whitby, and Ajax/Pickering. If you're a landed resident to the area, you definitely know the change in hands. Unless Durham Region becomes a megacity (Toronto 1998), I don't see a point in renumbering... even then it would still be questionable.

What do you mean a "YRT" based numbering system. DRT and YRT are very similar...

2x-Vaughan
3x-Aurora
4/5x-Newmarket
6x-King

of course, the numbering varies, 23 is Thornhill in Vaughan, 24 is Woodbine in RH/Markham, so of course there's quite a few exceptions.
 

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14 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

Grouping service numbers by service type, then by area in which they serve.

01-199 Regular routes

Examples:

31-33 are services operating in Aurora

50-58 all service The northern area of York

in Durham, this can also easily be broken up by the municipality

200-299 Shuttle Services

In Durham, these could be easily wind up being late night shuttles and/or On Demand Services

300-399 Express Services

In Durham, if they ever decided to operate express routes ever again

400-499 School Routes

Don't think this will happen here 

500-599 Community Services

Our community busses could go here

600-699 BRT Services (Numbers internal only)

PULSE?

700< Special Services

Canada Day Shuttles?

 

Soooo... while stealing York's route numbering outline is not at all completely practical, I think that if Durham were ever to completely change numbering strategies, that York's would be a good model outline.

 

 

This is literally the same thing though..?

Nothing you said is any different from what DRT does... just with variances of numbers. The point you raised is moot, YRT and DRT just go about it differently (ironic, they're different systems, huh ;))

DRT did do School Specials with different numbers by the way.. 464 Eastdale, 469 Dwyer/MCVI, 470 McLaughlin (4-Oshawa) and a different higher number away from conventional routes. HFN or "BRT" service is a 9xx... similar to 6xx for York... Sort of follows your "YRT" logic you described.

DRT doesn't need to change or copy anyone... their route scheme is fine.  I see the validity in your point, I just don't see the logic in changing it.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone noticed many recent changes to the programming on the destination signs? When DRT first installed its INIT ITS technology three years ago, all the routes were being displayed in inconsistent formats with multiple screens (examples: 915 TAUNTON / 915 EAST TO UOIT / 915 EAST TO DURHAM COLLEGE // 916 ROSSLAND WEST / 916 AJAX GO STATION // 950 PORT PERRY / 950 UXBRIDGE / 950 UOIT). There were tweaks to this format over the years, but it wasn't until last year when they adopted the present two-line, single-screen format as used by other agencies in the GTA. The initial font programming was such that the terminus was displayed in the 6-px-height font like on the older GO buses, but now I have been seeing them being changed to the 7-px-height fonts as seen on the TTC, MiWay, etc. They have made so many changes to their sign programming recently, so it doesn't surprise me to see them trying to get things done right.

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41 minutes ago, Transit geek said:

Has anyone noticed many recent changes to the programming on the destination signs? When DRT first installed its INIT ITS technology three years ago, all the routes were being displayed in inconsistent formats with multiple screens (examples: 915 TAUNTON / 915 EAST TO UOIT / 915 EAST TO DURHAM COLLEGE // 916 ROSSLAND WEST / 916 AJAX GO STATION // 950 PORT PERRY / 950 UXBRIDGE / 950 UOIT). There were tweaks to this format over the years, but it wasn't until last year when they adopted the present two-line, single-screen format as used by other agencies in the GTA. The initial font programming was such that the terminus was displayed in the 6-px-height font like on the older GO buses, but now I have been seeing them being changed to the 7-px-height fonts as seen on the TTC, MiWay, etc. They have made so many changes to their sign programming recently, so it doesn't surprise me to see them trying to get things done right.

You mean the stacked signs? With the top line being the route and the bottom being destination and intermediate stops?

If so it's been like that for over a year now.

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15 minutes ago, NovaBus76 said:

Wonder when Durham will be posting for Bus operators again ?

Please stop spamming all the GTA area threads with requests for transit operator hiring dates.

This forum is for transit enthusiasts to discuss ongoing topics of interest. It is not an HR department or a job openings board. Check the agency websites, the websites of any contractors that operate GTA transit systems, and various job search websites - all the applicable information will be posted when an agency is in a hiring process. Almost every transit agency in the GTA will put out a request for applicants at least once a year, so just check those sites every few weeks/months and you'll find them.

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9 hours ago, Articulated said:

Please stop spamming all the GTA area threads with requests for transit operator hiring dates.

This forum is for transit enthusiasts to discuss ongoing topics of interest. It is not an HR department or a job openings board. Check the agency websites, the websites of any contractors that operate GTA transit systems, and various job search websites - all the applicable information will be posted when an agency is in a hiring process. Almost every transit agency in the GTA will put out a request for applicants at least once a year, so just check those sites every few weeks/months and you'll find them.

Thank you for the reply... ?

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14 hours ago, NovaBus76 said:

Wonder when Durham will be posting for Bus operators again ?

For the record, most of Durham's positions are internal (through current region employees).

14 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

I think they mean that they changed the Font Size on the bottom line from 6px to 7px recently.

Hadn't really noticed such a big change.

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21 hours ago, 110B West Pickering said:

DRT Claims that this is only in the works for Pickering Parkway terminal, according to what they said at the Public Accessibility Forum on Monday, they plan on completely remodeling  PPT and making it their first Proper terminal

I hope they decide to use the space next to the Durham College building, set it up as a big loop that way buses can enter and leave from either direction and not have to loop around the mall. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Considering that Westney Division is due to receive about 5 2018 (2017) Novas in this order, would they need a few more current Novas that are based in Raleigh to have at their division so their drivers can be trained on them, or is it that most drivers whom are at Westney would also be able to have runs that involve routes in Oshawa and therefore, could be assigned a 2015/16 Nova?

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Had 8614 on the 910 today. Seems to me for the last few weeks the 21:45 from Whitby GO has frequently been Pulse buses... I would assume that the run is overtime from another Pulse run earlier in the evening.

On 12/1/2017 at 5:50 PM, 110B West Pickering said:

DRT Claims that this is only in the works for Pickering Parkway terminal, according to what they said at the Public Accessibility Forum on Monday, they plan on completely remodeling  PPT and making it their first Proper terminal

"First proper terminal"? You mean Oshawa Centre and UOIT aren't "proper terminals"? What qualifies as a proper terminal vs an improper one? :lol:

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On 1/6/2018 at 3:30 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Considering that Westney Division is due to receive about 5 2018 (2017) Novas in this order, would they need a few more current Novas that are based in Raleigh to have at their division so their drivers can be trained on them, or is it that most drivers whom are at Westney would also be able to have runs that involve routes in Oshawa and therefore, could be assigned a 2015/16 Nova?

First of all, it's a speculation made that some will go to Westney, not for sure. Until it's confirmed, there would be no need for any Novas being transferred over for "training purposes", even if they are being delivered there, I doubt they would even need to train drivers, a bus is a bus.

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On 1/6/2018 at 3:30 PM, newflyerinvero said:

Considering that Westney Division is due to receive about 5 2018 (2017) Novas in this order, would they need a few more current Novas that are based in Raleigh to have at their division so their drivers can be trained on them, or is it that most drivers whom are at Westney would also be able to have runs that involve routes in Oshawa and therefore, could be assigned a 2015/16 Nova?

Isn't the order for the 4 buses that was announced back in October with perhaps an option for one more?

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