Durham Region Transit

[DRT]

Were the buses with the old readings equipped with flip dot signs? All the VIs I saw in Pickering today had the old readings.

From what I have seen yes, 8002, and 8018 were out at the Ajax GO today around 2:00 and had the old readings though 8054, and 8425 had the new ones.

As a side note I am disappointed to see what they have done with the 915 sign along with what David posted earlier the other sign now displays: 915Taunton East>UOIT>Durham Collage note now there is now no space between 915 and Durham College, and they for what ever reason flipped the Durham College and UOIT (it should really be the way it was before) I don't know why the go messing up a good sign.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

From what I have seen yes, 8002, and 8018 were out at the Ajax GO today around 2:00 and had the old readings though 8054, and 8425 had the new ones.

As a side note I am disappointed to see what they have done with the 915 sign along with what David posted earlier the other sign now displays: 915Taunton East>UOIT>Durham Collage note now there is now no space between 915 and Durham College, and they for what ever reason flipped the Durham College and UOIT (it should really be the way it was before) I don't know why the go messing up a good sign.

Why doesn't Durham Region Transit just use a more "normal" numbering system? Like all the OTHER agencies in the GTA? Such as one/two digits for normal routes and three digits for special routes, like express, school specials, etc. Does DRT have any other GO station shuttles, other than former Pickering route 9, by the way? Just curious.

[DavidH]

From what I have seen yes, 8002, and 8018 were out at the Ajax GO today around 2:00 and had the old readings though 8054, and 8425 had the new ones.

More buses with flip signs had new numbers today, including my ride 8060. They seem to be gradually reprogramming all signs. What I want to see now is what happens to older buses with "small" flip signs (e.g. 8017). The last reprogramming missed these buses entirely, so that (at least up until now) they did not have route numbers or even the Audley North/South routes programmed.

Why doesn't Durham Region Transit just use a more "normal" numbering system? Like all the OTHER agencies in the GTA? Such as one/two digits for normal routes and three digits for special routes, like express, school specials, etc. Does DRT have any other GO station shuttles, other than former Pickering route 9, by the way? Just curious.

You'd have to ask them. My guess is that this system allowed for an easier transition (just add a leading digit to the existing number). But that's just a guess. DRT has never publicly stated the reason for this approach.

[Shaun]

More buses with flip signs had new numbers today, including my ride 8060. They seem to be gradually reprogramming all signs. What I want to see now is what happens to older buses with "small" flip signs (e.g. 8017). The last reprogramming missed these buses entirely, so that (at least up until now) they did not have route numbers or even the Audley North/South routes programmed.

You'd have to ask them. My guess is that this system allowed for an easier transition (just add a leading digit to the existing number). But that's just a guess. DRT has never publicly stated the reason for this approach.

Sometimes i dont understand why a simple 10 min car ride can become an hour and a half ordeal on the bus. This is one of the major hurdles faced by DRT. Making the actual trip times from point A to Point B shorter, and reflect more realistic times. 45 min from UOIT to the GO station is insane. If you drove you could do it in 10. How is that a shuttle service?

[DRT]

More buses with flip signs had new numbers today, including my ride 8060. They seem to be gradually reprogramming all signs. What I want to see now is what happens to older buses with "small" flip signs (e.g. 8017). The last reprogramming missed these buses entirely, so that (at least up until now) they did not have route numbers or even the Audley North/South routes programmed.

I am staring to think that the buses with Luminator Max signs need different software then the other ones (one reason is the different operator control console) and wondering if DRT even owns the software to program them. Since the sign programming in these buses was only been changed once (when APTA was formed) they may have borrowed the software from another transit system, or rented it from Luminator.

[general682002]

I am staring to think that the buses with Luminator Max signs need different software then the other ones (one reason is the different operator control console) and wondering if DRT even owns the software to program them. Since the sign programming in these buses was only been changed once (when APTA was formed) they may have borrowed the software from another transit system, or rented it from Luminator.

You can't rent sign.

Ajax have the software and it's the only software they have to reprogram. I know it takes longer to reprogram the sign.

[DRT]

You can't rent sign.

Ajax have the software and it's the only software they have to reprogram. I know it takes longer to reprogram the sign.

But do Luminator Max Signs use different software then Luminator MegaMax and Horizon?

[2044]

Why doesn't Durham Region Transit just use a more "normal" numbering system? Like all the OTHER agencies in the GTA? Such as one/two digits for normal routes and three digits for special routes, like express, school specials, etc. Does DRT have any other GO station shuttles, other than former Pickering route 9, by the way? Just curious.

There are also the 413, 419 and 419B in Oshawa.

Sometimes i dont understand why a simple 10 min car ride can become an hour and a half ordeal on the bus. This is one of the major hurdles faced by DRT. Making the actual trip times from point A to Point B shorter, and reflect more realistic times. 45 min from UOIT to the GO station is insane. If you drove you could do it in 10. How is that a shuttle service?

That is a problem with DRT routes as many are not direct and some travel only one way. Which route are you refering to from UOIT? The GO shuttles from there at rush take 20-30 mins to get to Oshawa GO.

[Shaun]

There are also the 413, 419 and 419B in Oshawa.

That is a problem with DRT routes as many are not direct and some travel only one way. Which route are you refering to from UOIT? The GO shuttles from there at rush take 20-30 mins to get to Oshawa GO.

If i remember it leaves at 5:05 and gets there at like 5:40. If you did that in your car it would take you 10 min.

[2044]

If i remember it leaves at 5:05 and gets there at like 5:40. If you did that in your car it would take you 10 min.

The closest I found is a 915 departing UOIT at 17.05 and arriving at Ajax GO at 17.46. Considering the amount of distance this route covers and it is quite direct, 40-45 min travel time seems quite reasonable. In a car you can take the highway and you don't have to stop to pick up and drop off people.

[DavidH]

DRT is running a mail-in survey (postage-paid, no less) of riders of 222 Audley South to determine whether the ridership as a whole would prefer that the route be shortened by eliminating the "loop" via Ashbury, Hoile, and Audley near the end of the route, with the buses instead turning directly onto Audley from Ashbury. This is a direct result of a petition by residents along those streets asking for the loop to be removed. Some of their concerns seemed to be pure NIMBY to me but they did have a point that Hoile, in particular, is fairly narrow and a difficult turn for the buses at times.

Staff recommendation to the Commission meeting back in June or thereabouts was to keep the loop as it would inconvenience enough riders, but the Commission asked staff to go back and take another look and determine, among other things, impact on ridership as a whole on the route. This is where the survey came in. It goes back to the Commission in September.

It's an interesting case. Staff would like to keep as many people within the 400m service distance as possible, but the maximum walking time to a stop would still only be about five minutes or so, and it would shave a few minutes off the route running time as well as keep the residents on those streets happier.

I am staring to think that the buses with Luminator Max signs need different software then the other ones (one reason is the different operator control console) and wondering if DRT even owns the software to program them. Since the sign programming in these buses was only been changed once (when APTA was formed) they may have borrowed the software from another transit system, or rented it from Luminator.

As of yesterday, 8016 (I believe it was) was showing "Village" without a route number, so they hadn't been reprogrammed as of then. However, DRT seems to be doing these in batches, so it's entirely possible that they will be reprogrammed as of today or tomorrow.

I also noticed today that front signs on ALL routes have route numbers that are slightly larger than the name. It actually looks pretty good.

[409 Thornton]

DRT is running a mail-in survey (postage-paid, no less) of riders of 222 Audley South to determine whether the ridership as a whole would prefer that the route be shortened by eliminating the "loop" via Ashbury, Hoile, and Audley near the end of the route, with the buses instead turning directly onto Audley from Ashbury. This is a direct result of a petition by residents along those streets asking for the loop to be removed. Some of their concerns seemed to be pure NIMBY to me but they did have a point that Hoile, in particular, is fairly narrow and a difficult turn for the buses at times.

Staff recommendation to the Commission meeting back in June or thereabouts was to keep the loop as it would inconvenience enough riders, but the Commission asked staff to go back and take another look and determine, among other things, impact on ridership as a whole on the route. This is where the survey came in. It goes back to the Commission in September.

It's an interesting case. Staff would like to keep as many people within the 400m service distance as possible, but the maximum walking time to a stop would still only be about five minutes or so, and it would shave a few minutes off the route running time as well as keep the residents on those streets happier.

As of yesterday, 8016 (I believe it was) was showing "Village" without a route number, so they hadn't been reprogrammed as of then. However, DRT seems to be doing these in batches, so it's entirely possible that they will be reprogrammed as of today or tomorrow.

I also noticed today that front signs on ALL routes have route numbers that are slightly larger than the name. It actually looks pretty good.

Oshawa's and Whitby's look good but it doesn't take much for the public to get confused. I can't understand why people don't take the time to read the notices at the front of the bus or on the website I'm sure almost half of the DRT riders got confused when the number change went into effect

[DavidH]

Oshawa's and Whitby's look good but it doesn't take much for the public to get confused. I can't understand why people don't take the time to read the notices at the front of the bus or on the website I'm sure almost half of the DRT riders got confused when the number change went into effect

One thing that DRT has not yet learned is how to get the public's attention. A notice on a web site does not do it. A small ad in the local paper does not do it. A front page story in the local paper will get *SOME* people to notice.

Things that might get people's attention:

- announcements by bus drivers (e.g. next week this route will be called route 409 because DRT is changing its numbers. Go to their web site for more details - but don't worry, it's still the same route).

- signs at bus stops - because people waiting at the stop may be bored enough to pay attention to some reading material. TTC used to put signs at every stop along a route when changes happened, but budgets don't allow that today, sadly.

- notices with ticket/pass purchases at stores

- full page ads in Metro and 24 newspapers. There is a reason why GO takes out ads in these papers and not in the Star.

The best notification method I have ever seen for transit was when GO Transit introduced routes 95/96. One morning going to work, I got on my express bus (now route 96, but not then) and found that EVERY seat had an cardboard information sheet placed on it, so you had to pick it up before sitting down. Granted this is expensive, and it only works for certain kinds of routes, but it definitely worked for GO.

[409 Thornton]

Whats the story on 8314 apparently its been sitting out back for sometime now. I will have to make a trip over to the Centre garage to see whats going on.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

One thing that DRT has not yet learned is how to get the public's attention. A notice on a web site does not do it. A small ad in the local paper does not do it. A front page story in the local paper will get *SOME* people to notice.

Things that might get people's attention:

- announcements by bus drivers (e.g. next week this route will be called route 409 because DRT is changing its numbers. Go to their web site for more details - but don't worry, it's still the same route).

- signs at bus stops - because people waiting at the stop may be bored enough to pay attention to some reading material. TTC used to put signs at every stop along a route when changes happened, but budgets don't allow that today, sadly.

- notices with ticket/pass purchases at stores

- full page ads in Metro and 24 newspapers. There is a reason why GO takes out ads in these papers and not in the Star.

The best notification method I have ever seen for transit was when GO Transit introduced routes 95/96. One morning going to work, I got on my express bus (now route 96, but not then) and found that EVERY seat had an cardboard information sheet placed on it, so you had to pick it up before sitting down. Granted this is expensive, and it only works for certain kinds of routes, but it definitely worked for GO.

I guess what you mean is sort of like YRT's marketing tactics. I have always admired the way York Region Transit promotes their services (YRT\Viva) with the streetlight banners, newspaper ads, ads on their own buses (!), and those creative phrases, like "driving is for golf". But I think this was only possible through York Region spoling the transit system. This expensive method of promotion has proven to be a success as ridership continues to increase along with service.

In terms of changes to service, what DRT might need is little notices stick to a bus stop pole, like what YRT does whenever a service change is coming to the route.

One bad side to this powerful marketing technique YRT has undetaken, I guess would be now that they promote Viva as another brand, people always ask if YRT and Viva are one system or seperate systems, and if Viva tickets can be used on the YRT, and vice versa.

[DRT]

I went by the Whitby yard today and saw 8018, and 8019 sitting there. Does Whitby have a bus shortage or something? I thought they had more then enough since some of the Classics and Orion V's have not been used this summer.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

Does GO Transit and DRT serve the same stop (or same area) within the UOIT/Durham College Campus? Because I need to connect from the 52 GO Bus to route 915 at UOIT. I called into Durham East this morning and they have no idea....Some customer service

[a.dicion]

Does GO Transit and DRT serve the same stop (or same area) within the UOIT/Durham College Campus? Because I need to connect from the 52 GO Bus to route 915 at UOIT. I called into Durham East this morning and they have no idea....Some customer service

Yes all local and regional bus service stops within the bus loop at Durham College/UOIT. The set up is similar to York University where the GO buses stop on the south side and the DRT buses stop on the north and west side of the loop.

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

Yes all local and regional bus service stops within the bus loop at Durham College/UOIT. The set up is similar to York University where the GO buses stop on the south side and the DRT buses stop on the north and west side of the loop.

You mean YRT.

[a.dicion]

You mean YRT.

Actually I just realized that ever since YRT has run Viva through York University via Ian MacDonald Boulevard, the no longer service the bus loop proper, rather the Viva stations on Ian MacDonald. Therefore a more accurate comparison of the York University loop to the Durham College/UOIT loop is the TTC serves the north side of the loop at York similarly to how DRT services the north side of the loop at Durham College. Now looking back on a recent visit to Durham College/UOIT I just remembered that DRT utilizes the majority of the loop. From what I can recall from the layout the 401 Simcoe and the 916 Rossland have stops on the north side, the 915 Taunton stops on the west side and the 419A/B GO Station serve the south side along with GO Transit's route 52 Hwy 407 East and 93 Scarborough Centre Express.

[DavidH]

The political fight over the routing of 222 Audley South has hit the Toronto Star - page 4 in the print edition, no less. Note that the print edition included a little map of the route and the proposed change, along with the location of the house of who is leading the fight to change the routing.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/477380

It's an interesting read. The proponent comes across as more than a little self-engaged: "Not to sound like I'm bragging or anything but we have more (influence) than the average person."

[Orion VIII]

The political fight over the routing of 222 Audley South has hit the Toronto Star - page 4 in the print edition, no less. Note that the print edition included a little map of the route and the proposed change, along with the location of the house of who is leading the fight to change the routing.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/477380

It's an interesting read. The proponent comes across as more than a little self-engaged: "Not to sound like I'm bragging or anything but we have more (influence) than the average person."

Paying an extra hundred thousand dollars does not give you "more influence," I'm sorry. People like her have too much money, and think they can buy their own way.

"It's also 'mostly empty,' says Cassidy." Sure, it's mostly empty, and I'm sure it will get even emptier if they reroute it. The claims of the smell and noise are preposterous. Maybe if the route was served by fishbowls would she have anything for smell, but how long does the noise last? Four, five seconds? And how frequent? Every 20, 30 minutes?

I'm sure there was also some sort of official plan that noted that as a bus route. My cousin moved to a new house in London, ON and picked the location because it would soon be served by a bus to downtown, as she found in the official plans for the neighbourhood. I'm sure Cassidy could have seen the route coming, and moved away from it, if it's such a problem.

[DavidH]

"It's also 'mostly empty,' says Cassidy." Sure, it's mostly empty, and I'm sure it will get even emptier if they reroute it. The claims of the smell and noise are preposterous. Maybe if the route was served by fishbowls would she have anything for smell, but how long does the noise last? Four, five seconds? And how frequent? Every 20, 30 minutes?

Well, her house is at the closest thing to an "end" of the route, so of course the bus is near empty rounding the corner. That doesn't mean that people don't start getting on shortly after her house. Certainly by the time it gets to me near the top of Audley, there are typically about a dozen people on board.

Update: Commenters are weighing in at the Star. I've never seen such unanimity - everyone is blasting her. In giving that interview with the Star and not being careful in what she said, she may have eliminated any chance of the DRT Executive overruling staff on this. I can't imagine them wanting to look like they're in her pocket now.

[409 Thornton]

I agree with the people who say that if she doesn't want the sound of a bus going by every once and a while then she should live in the country. Is she going to start a petition to change school bus routes because she doesn't want them going by once or twice a day.

Actually I just realized that ever since YRT has run Viva through York University via Ian MacDonald Boulevard, the no longer service the bus loop proper, rather the Viva stations on Ian MacDonald. Therefore a more accurate comparison of the York University loop to the Durham College/UOIT loop is the TTC serves the north side of the loop at York similarly to how DRT services the north side of the loop at Durham College. Now looking back on a recent visit to Durham College/UOIT I just remembered that DRT utilizes the majority of the loop. From what I can recall from the layout the 401 Simcoe and the 916 Rossland have stops on the north side, the 915 Taunton stops on the west side and the 419A/B GO Station serve the south side along with GO Transit's route 52 Hwy 407 East and 93 Scarborough Centre Express.

That is is correct the 950 Port Perry/Uxbridge is on the south side as well IIRC.

[Steve]

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/477380

"I can't even hear the TV when a bus goes by."

Priceless! (...you'd think she could afford a louder TV...)

Well, her house is at the closest thing to an "end" of the route, so of course the bus is near empty rounding the corner. That doesn't mean that people don't start getting on shortly after her house. Certainly by the time it gets to me near the top of Audley, there are typically about a dozen people on board.

Yes, exactly. Perhaps Ms. Cassidy could read Steve Munro's very good explanation of why most bus routes are planned to run empty at some point on their routing.