PRESTO - GTA Discussion

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

1 hour ago, littlewill1166 said:

Barring any last-minute changes, it's going to look something like this.

Reminds me when Simplii Financial (a digital bank owned by CIBC) rebranded to the new colours (for it's physical debit and credit cards), the old branding remains.

Lucky for me, I have a few "spare" PRESTO Cards in my drawer (all unregistered).

I was wondering if I should register one of my (spare, unregistered) PRESTO Cards to my PRESTO account as a "prerequisite" on adding to my Google Wallet....

[littlewill1166]

22 minutes ago, FutureHeartsJunkie said:

Reminds me when Simplii Financial (a digital bank owned by CIBC) rebranded to the new colours (for it's physical debit and credit cards), the old branding remains.

Lucky for me, I have a few "spare" PRESTO Cards in my drawer (all unregistered).

I was wondering if I should register one of my (spare, unregistered) PRESTO Cards to my PRESTO account as a "prerequisite" on adding to my Google Wallet....

You can "buy" one in the app by loading $0.05, there's no issuance fee at the moment. Overdraft doesn't work on it anymore though...

[Ed T.]

On 10/1/2023 at 11:42 AM, Ed T. said:

I am curious about the expiry time after a Presto tap. I think it's something like a three hour window, the machine says.

What happens if I tap on, take GO to somewhere, don't tap off, and then return to my starting point within the expiry time and then tap off?

Of course fare inspectors might catch me partway....

To answer my question, recently I tapped on at XXX station at 7:13 PM and tapped off at Union station when the train got there.

I was done and ready to take a train back. I tapped on at 10:08 PM or so (under 3 hours) and it charged me $0.00. Trying to tap again I was told "already tapped". When I got to XXX station, I was again charged $0.00.

Later checking the card history, well there was nothing flagged, but the same $0 fare for returning from Union.

This seems bizarre, but if I am done quickly enough, it saves some money.

[nfitz]

3 hours ago, Ed T. said:

To answer my question, recently I tapped on at XXX station at 7:13 PM and tapped off at Union station when the train got there.

I was done and ready to take a train back. I tapped on at 10:08 PM or so (under 3 hours) and it charged me $0.00. Trying to tap again I was told "already tapped". When I got to XXX station, I was again charged $0.00.

Later checking the card history, well there was nothing flagged, but the same $0 fare for returning from Union.

This seems bizarre, but if I am done quickly enough, it saves some money.

Yes, that's how it has worked for a few years now (though not always). I do it frequently from Danforth to Exhibition. But if I do the identical trip without tapping out and then 2 hours later in at Exhibition, it charges me penalties. So always tap out (unless it's your default station).

[Ed T.]

14 hours ago, nfitz said:

Yes, that's how it has worked for a few years now (though not always). I do it frequently from Danforth to Exhibition. But if I do the identical trip without tapping out and then 2 hours later in at Exhibition, it charges me penalties. So always tap out (unless it's your default station).

I have no default station set, so I always tap out. For that matter, the cards are unregistered and I top them up with cash.

Going downtown and back for $2.16 is really nice, though.

[Ed T.]

So to add to Presto fun, we have the announcement of GO/TTC fare integration.

https://stevemunro.ca/2024/02/05/ontario-confirms-co-fare-restoration-for-ttc/

Under the current Metrolinx fare structure, some trips via GO are less expensive than the TTC if you have a fare concession set. I wonder if this will be a way to get a cheap three hour free-transfer ride on the TTC if one started at a GO station.

[Articulated]

8 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

So to add to Presto fun, we have the announcement of GO/TTC fare integration.

https://stevemunro.ca/2024/02/05/ontario-confirms-co-fare-restoration-for-ttc/

Under the current Metrolinx fare structure, some trips via GO are less expensive than the TTC if you have a fare concession set. I wonder if this will be a way to get a cheap three hour free-transfer ride on the TTC if one started at a GO station.

The official announcement:

https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs/fare-integration/one-fare-program

Starting February 26, TTC fares will be "100% discounted" when transferring to/from GO. As well, transfers between TTC and suburban systems will be free with a 2-hour transfer.

[nfitz]

8 hours ago, Articulated said:

As well, transfers between TTC and suburban systems will be free with a 2-hour transfer.

Though if you start on TTC, but end up on a more expensive system like YRT, you'll have to pay a few dimes more when you tap on YRT.

I wonder how it works if you are using debit/credit which doesn't have discounted rates on some agencies.

[Articulated]

1 minute ago, nfitz said:

Though if you start on TTC, but end up on a more expensive system like YRT, you'll have to pay a few dimes more when you tap on YRT.

I wonder how it works if you are using debit/credit which doesn't have discounted rates on some agencies.

It doesn't sound like that will be the case. The webpage from Metrolinx states "the second portion of the trip becomes free". So that indicates whichever system you tap onto first will be the fare you get charged. With how Presto is currently set up, you don't get charged more for crossing any municipal boundary (excluding Toronto), no matter whose fare you paid first; riders from Brampton don't get charged an extra $0.48 once they tap onto a YRT bus within the 2 hour window.

This will certainly create a lot of interesting potential changes. I think it will require a couple of months for passengers to adjust, but I would expect by the summer we will see ridership patterns start shifting.

[Orion V]

11 minutes ago, nfitz said:

Though if you start on TTC, but end up on a more expensive system like YRT, you'll have to pay a few dimes more when you tap on YRT.

I wonder how it works if you are using debit/credit which doesn't have discounted rates on some agencies.

As far as I understood it, you only paid the first local system's fare and all other local systems you transfer onto within 2h of initial local system's tap is free.

So if between TTC and YRT, assuming you will do a return journey for that day, you will pay the cheaper TTC fare for one journey and when you return, you pay the more expensive YRT fare or vice versa. There's no top up between local systems. Top ups occur when you transfer to and from GO with a local system by discounting the local fare from the GO fare.

[nfitz]

Ah, interesting.

I guess assuming the trips balance out, it costs Metrolinx the same in subsidies in the long run. And it's simpler to implement and track. It will be interesting to see how well it works in practice for some of the trips I do from time-to-time. Like YRT-TTC-GO-TTC-TTC (which was interesting, as the charges are $3.88, $3.30, $0.44, $-0.62 (tap off), $0, $0

[Cityflyer]

This becomes iffy when your last trip is not on TTC because the frequency is very bad on YRT (non VIVA) for example so you might miss your 2h transfer window.

Also is bad for TTC buses operating into YRT land because you tap for YRT fare when you leave the TTC bus in YRT land. For TTC buses that travel far into YRT land, by the time you tap off, you might've gone beyond your 2h transfer window.

[Ed T.]

Makes me wonder now how the TTC's "Extra fare outside Toronto" routes will work. Lawrence West and the various ones that run north of Steeles.

[York Transit]

15 minutes ago, Ed T. said:

Makes me wonder now how the TTC's "Extra fare outside Toronto" routes will work. Lawrence West and the various ones that run north of Steeles.

They will still have to tap.

Remember, it's not completely free. Rides still have to be captured by Presto to record ridership and for Metrolinx to distribute reimbursements.

Nothing has changed procedure-wise. The only change for customers is Presto will display 0.00 when transferring.

Unlike current transfer agreements between 905 agencies, the arrangement with TTC is paper transfers will not be allowed to transfer between agencies because there's no way to establish how much Metrolinx needs to reimburse.

[Ed T.]

15 minutes ago, York Transit said:

They will still have to tap.

Remember, it's not completely free. Rides still have to be captured by Presto to record ridership and for Metrolinx to distribute reimbursements.

Nothing has changed procedure-wise. The only change for customers is Presto will display 0.00 when transferring.

Unlike current transfer agreements between 905 agencies, the arrangement with TTC is paper transfers will not be allowed to transfer between agencies because there's no way to establish how much Metrolinx needs to reimburse.

 

I wasn't thinking about transferring, but rather how it would be handled on the TTC vehicle. My understanding is that everyone has to tap off when the TTC vehicle is beyond the city fare zone. I guess they can set the tap off to $0 and the figure out who pays for the fare that would otherwise go to YRT.

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

Asking for a friend - has anyone heard any news on the PRESTO Card will be available for the Apple Wallet?

 

[D4-N173]

（deleted)

[FutureHeartsJunkie]

It appears that PRESTO (may eventually) be coming to Apple Wallet - later this year:

https://mobilesyrup.com/2024/03/28/presto-card-apple-wallet/

There are some other views from Apple fans demanding the tech giant to add support for PRESTO - however, the "chain" lies at the folks at Metrolinx:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255400118

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255455989

 

 

[nfitz]

Given how many delays I see boarding buses as people try to unsuccessfully tap their phones, and then block the queue while they try and wake the thing up, I'd be quite happy if they stopped the whole phone thing.