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D40LF

By D40LF
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stm_5307N

stm_5307N

Posted
Posted

Today in Cornwall:

9137 - route #1 (1991 MCI Classic)

9141 - route #3 (1991 MCI Classic)

9242 - route #1 (1992 Orion V)

9243 - route #2 (1992 Orion V)

9244 - route #?? (1992 Orion V)

0360 - route #?? (2003 Orion V)

8558 - Industrial route #1 (1985 GM Classic) PM rush only

9446 - Industrial route #2 (1994 Orion V CNG) PM rush only

9752 and 9753 were on the Community Shuttles

At the garage:

9138 - 1991 MCI Classic

9139 - 1991 MCI Classic

9447 - 1994 Orion V CNG

9448 - 1994 Orion V CNG

9449 - 1994 Orion V CNG (retired at back)

9754 - Orion II CNG

9755 - Orion II CNG

9756 - Orion II CNG

0359 - 2003 Orion V

So, there 1 GM Classic left (8558) and 3 Orion V CNGs! All CNGs are retiring by March 09 with the arrival of the new ElDorado LFs in the spring. So as SMS posted by above, there's a Cornwall Orion V CNG charter that's going to happen real soon!

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railbus

railbus

Posted
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A Cornwall Transit charter aboard a V CNG? Wow. Does life get any better? Hmmmmm. I had what I thought would be my last ride aboard 9449 in December 2006...before that it had been 8 years since I had ridden aboard. On my wall I have 20x30 enlargements of both sides of 9449 in her glory days.

Does anyone ever do up web reports with photos of these charters? Any past charters I could look at to see the format?

Everyone here needs to understand there is no finer bus, than the Cornwall 94s. They will be sorely, sorely missed. <_<

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MiExpress

MiExpress

Posted
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Count me in....could the charter be held between say, 1 and 4PM? I say this because the first VIA Train arrives from Toronto at 11:37 AM, and there is a departure at 4:56 PM heading for Toronto. The time in between could be used for lunch, so the bus doesn't waste money idling, or in case of delays.

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SMS

SMS

Posted
Posted

Sun is limited, and becomes really yellow after 3 pm!

I'd like to accomodate but this really has to be between specific times to take advantage of the best sun. This is not meant to alienate anyone from coming. Anyway all times are to be confirmed!!

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kellergraham

kellergraham

Posted
Posted

For the record, the following was seen in the rollsign of Cornwall Transit #9446: (I'm told every vehicle has the same rollsign)

Brookdale

Second

Cumberland

Sunrise Acres

Montreal Road

Riverdale / Glenview

Rvierdale

Pitt

Pitt / St. Andrews

St. Andrews

Pitt & Second

Glengarry

McConnell

Transport Canada

Chartered

Not in Service

Boundary Road

Eastern Industrial Plaza

Western Insustrial Plaza

City Centre

Cornwall Transit

Levis :)

E.S.L.C.

S.L.H.S.

C.C.V.S.

G.V.S.S. / St. Joseph

GV / St. Joe Via McConnell

GV / St. Joe Via Cumberland

E.S.L.C. / S.L.H.S.

Easton / Dunbar

Good Morning

Civic Complex

Special

Extra

Garage

Driver Training

Road Test

Not in Service

Video:

Alex

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railbus

railbus

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the video! I did the same thing with 9244 back in 1995. I think I might even have a photo someplace of a COMPLETE old rollsign from one of the fishbowls.

Anyway, I viewed the items in the rollsigns and all appear to be original to 9446 except for Riverdale/Glenview. That one is new to me. Also, the route number appears to be a remake as the font and yellow are different than normal.

Long live the 94s.

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SMS

SMS

Posted
Posted
So is there any more info regarding the Cornwall charter?

Not at present. Please stay tuned. I will get to work on this starting this weekend to assess the feasibility of a charter. I am sorry that I cannot give very much advance notice, but the charter will occur on a Saturday at the time of my choosing. It is regrettable that I cannot necessarily accommodate to the wishes of GTA members wanting to attend but we have to respect the sun angles of Cornwall which are earlier than those in Toronto. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

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  • 2 weeks later...
SMS

SMS

Posted
Posted

I'm writing now because I would like to learn about Cornwall Transit and obtain information for the benefit of a future charter. My next objective as far as Cornwall is concerned is to charter a Classic from them and eventually even Orion II CNG. Based on popular demand, the latter could be a doubleheader charter. Anyway stay tuned to YUL Bus Charters' official website at www.montrain.ca/yulbuscharters for further developments with regard to this and I should post any news treating them here as well.

In this post I would like to talk about the main rollsign, and the significance of each exposure. The Orion II rollsign will have to wait for another day and has its own rollsign owing to its community shuttle nature. Now some of the exposures below are obvious but some are not, so I would like the experts to tell me how each exposure is significant. Any corrections are welcome.

Brookdale - for current route 3 (northwest segment)

Second - ?

Cumberland - guessing for the abolished route 4 (note that the wiki is somewhat misleading when it comes to route 4)

Sunrise Acres - for current route 2 (eastern segment)

Montreal Road - for current route 3 (eastern segment)

Riverdale / Glenview - guessing this is for the full route 2 from east to west

Riverdale - for current route 2 (western segment)

Pitt - for current route 1 (northern segment)

Pitt / St. Andrews - guessing this was for route 1 beyond its northern terminus to St. Andrews

St. Andrews - see above

Pitt & Second - for the downtown transfer point

Glengarry - the most eastern point for route 1 - McConnell

McConnell - for route 1 (northeast segment); formerly for route 4 (Proof: http://www.cornwall.ca/pdf/route4.pdf)

Transport Canada - the most eastern point for route 3 - Montreal; now NAV Canada

Chartered

Not in Service

Boundary Road - ?

Eastern Industrial Plaza - for S1, S2, S3, S4; formerly for S5, S6, S7 (Source: CPTDB Wiki)

Western Industrial Plaza - guessing for Western Industrial Plaza but precise details would be beneficial

City Centre - guessing this is another exposure for Pitt & Second

Cornwall Transit

Levis - ?

E.S.L.C. - for Ecole Secondaire La Citadelle

S.L.H.S. - for St. Lawrence High School

C.C.V.S. - for Cornwall Collegiate and Vocational School

G.V.S.S. / St. Joseph - for General Vanier Secondary School and St. Joseph's Catholic Secondary School

GV / St. Joe Via McConnell - see above

GV / St. Joe Via Cumberland - see above

E.S.L.C. / S.L.H.S. - see above

Easton / Dunbar - guessing this is for a short turn of route 3 that does not go to Transport Canada (now NAV Canada)

Good Morning

Civic Complex - guessing this is a short turn exposure

Special

Extra

Garage

Driver Training

Road Test

Not in Service

Please see attached photo below. These are the destination sign readings aboard 9139. I will need information for the following exposures.

Zones 1, 2, 3

Power Dam

Of course if old maps and/or schedules can be scanned here for reference and/or uploaded onto the wiki, that is also preferable and helps out in the interest of a historic charter.

Thank you for your support!

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kellergraham

kellergraham

Posted
Posted
Please see attached photo below. These are the destination sign readings aboard 9139. I will need information for the following exposures.

Zones 1, 2, 3

This is JUST a speculation, but didn't Cornwall Transit have/still have a Dial-a-Bus Service? This could have been the Zones of that service?

I could be completely wrong though :)

Alex

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railbus

railbus

Posted
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>Brookdale - for current route 3 (northwest segment)

Yes, and to understand this one you need just look at the routes from 1994-2002. Brookdale used to be the western segment of route 2 and Second was the eastern segment.

>Second - ?

As above, but the Second Route is one of the long standing routes in Cornwall. It might even still be a current route.

>Cumberland - guessing for the abolished route 4 (note that the wiki is somewhat misleading when it comes to route 4)

Actually, this was created in 1994 as part of the then-new route 5, Cumberland/Sunrise Acres.

>Sunrise Acres - for current route 2 (eastern segment)

Formerly route 5 eastern segment. Used to follow the same eastern routing as "3 Montreal Road" up to St. Lawrence College.

>Montreal Road - for current route 3 (eastern segment)

Another long standing route.

>Riverdale / Glenview - guessing this is for the full route 2 from east to west

Yes, and this is a much more recent routing. This was not part of the original rollsigns.

>Riverdale - for current route 2 (western segment)

Used to be western segment of Route 3 1994-2002.

>Pitt - for current route 1 (northern segment)

>Pitt / St. Andrews - guessing this was for route 1 beyond its northern terminus to St. Andrews

>St. Andrews - see above

>Pitt & Second - for the downtown transfer point

Ah yes, these options. All of these were primarily used on route 1, which used to go as far north as the baseball diamond in St. Andrews as long as you paid a zone surcharge of 25 cents. That quarter was then remitted to the township to help in road maintenance. Anyway, northbound buses were supposed to change the sign to St. Andrews after arrival at Pitt and Second and then to Pitt and Second after arrival at the baseball diamond. The traditional route was known as the Pitt Route and formed one of the traditional routes Pitt, Second, Montreal and McConnell. I think the rollsigns were updated in 1994 on the 91s and 92s and in time for delivery of the 94s, but if you look at the rollsigns from the fishbowls, Pitt was the original option. Lastly, the Pitt/St. Andrews thing was a convenient workaround that allowed the drivers to set the sign once and not have to keep changing at every end point every hour. At one point the supervisors started enforcing the requirement to display either St. Andrews, PITT or Pitt and Second.

>Glengarry - the most eastern point for route 1 - McConnell

Yes, and the original creation of Glengarry came about in 1994 when it was the service expansion for route 4 McConnell. A one hour trip would form one giant circuit for Glengarry and McConnell routes. So at 15 after the hour if you were 4 Glengarry at Pitt and Second, next time you arrive downtown you would be 4 McConnell and keep rotating. A given route had two buses in circulation to provide 30 minute service. At 6:30PM the second bus would return to the garage, leaving only one bus to serve the giant route until 11:30PM, giving one hour service.

McConnell - for route 1 (northeast segment); formerly for route 4 (Proof: http://www.cornwall.ca/pdf/route4.pdf)

>Transport Canada - the most eastern point for route 3 - Montreal; now NAV Canada

Yes, but this was never used as the destination for route 3. I don't know why they added that option to the destination sign. I've never seen it be used. Riders knew the 3 Montreal Road route would take them to TCTI.

>Chartered

Not often seen.

>Not in Service

Self explanatory.

>Boundary Road - ?

One of the traditional destinations, referring to one of the industrial route destinations.

>Eastern Industrial Plaza - for S1, S2, S3, S4; formerly for S5, S6, S7 (Source: CPTDB Wiki)

Correct.

>Western Industrial Plaza - guessing for Western Industrial Plaza but precise details would be beneficial

I don't think this ever materialized but it could have been intended for Domtar, BASF and such.

>City Centre - guessing this is another exposure for Pitt & Second

Or downtown-only tours like perhaps for Cornfest or photo opps.

>Cornwall Transit

For photo opps and training.

>Levis - ?

Yes, there used to be a Levis jeans plant in Cornwall and they had pickup service. Goes back quite a long time in the industrial history of the city.

E.S.L.C. - for Ecole Secondaire La Citadelle

S.L.H.S. - for St. Lawrence High School

C.C.V.S. - for Cornwall Collegiate and Vocational School

G.V.S.S. / St. Joseph - for General Vanier Secondary School and St. Joseph's Catholic Secondary School

GV / St. Joe Via McConnell - see above

GV / St. Joe Via Cumberland - see above

E.S.L.C. / S.L.H.S. - see above

Ah yes, all the school specials. They lost all these contracts in 2005, which was a huge blow for the system and caused the retirements of many buses. This represented a lot of business for CT.

>Easton / Dunbar - guessing this is for a short turn of route 3 that does not go to Transport Canada (now NAV Canada)

Ah yes. This one. I have some video footage I took on this route back in 1995 with a driver friend of mine. This was one of the school specials which I think did a pickup at La Citadelle (?) french school and went on a route through east end down to easton and dunbar. The bus we had that day? 7618! No power steering.

>Good Morning

Who knows.

>Civic Complex - guessing this is a short turn exposure

Photo opps and specials. I have a photo of 9449 in front of the complex with that in its destination sign. More recently I think some routes go into the complex?

Special

Extra

Garage

Driver Training

Road Test

Not in Service

Please see attached photo below. These are the destination sign readings aboard 9139. I will need information for the following exposures.

>Zones 1, 2, 3

Yep, dial a bus, which was introduced in March 1997 for evening and Saturday service.

>Power Dam

I never saw this in use.

>Of course if old maps and/or schedules can be scanned here for reference and/or uploaded onto the wiki, that is also preferable and helps out in the interest of a historic charter.

Now I have a question: what was the routing of your latest charter on 9446?

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SMS

SMS

Posted
Posted

Thanks big time to railbus for helping out with the history of routes that served Cornwall Transit! This is simply wonderful information and will be used on a future Cornwall Transit charter which I can pretty well guarantee will be longer that yesterday's charter because we'll try to use the roll sign exposures as much as possible and within reason. I'll reply to the appropriate sentences below.

>Second - ?

As above, but the Second Route is one of the long standing routes in Cornwall. It might even still be a current route.

Sadly, the current Cornwall Transit map offers no evidence of that, although I can see it being true. The current route names ignore Second despite the fact that most routes if not all are on it at some point.

>Cumberland - guessing for the abolished route 4 (note that the wiki is somewhat misleading when it comes to route 4)

Actually, this was created in 1994 as part of the then-new route 5, Cumberland/Sunrise Acres.

This is news to me!

>Sunrise Acres - for current route 2 (eastern segment)

Formerly route 5 eastern segment. Used to follow the same eastern routing as "3 Montreal Road" up to St. Lawrence College.

This is also news to me. The current Cornwall Transit network as you can tell is very simplified and offers as little duplication as possible on the six branch routes.

>Montreal Road - for current route 3 (eastern segment)

Another long standing route.

Good to know, as I have an affinity for the name of my hometown in other cities.

>Riverdale / Glenview - guessing this is for the full route 2 from east to west

Yes, and this is a much more recent routing. This was not part of the original rollsigns.

It's puzzling because Glenview Blvd is a relatively insignificant street but it's in the Eastern Industrial Plaza so that's probably the point.

>Riverdale - for current route 2 (western segment)

Used to be western segment of Route 3 1994-2002.

Noted.

>Pitt - for current route 1 (northern segment)

>Pitt / St. Andrews - guessing this was for route 1 beyond its northern terminus to St. Andrews

>St. Andrews - see above

>Pitt & Second - for the downtown transfer point

Ah yes, these options. All of these were primarily used on route 1, which used to go as far north as the baseball diamond in St. Andrews as long as you paid a zone surcharge of 25 cents. That quarter was then remitted to the township to help in road maintenance. Anyway, northbound buses were supposed to change the sign to St. Andrews after arrival at Pitt and Second and then to Pitt and Second after arrival at the baseball diamond. The traditional route was known as the Pitt Route and formed one of the traditional routes Pitt, Second, Montreal and McConnell. I think the rollsigns were updated in 1994 on the 91s and 92s and in time for delivery of the 94s, but if you look at the rollsigns from the fishbowls, Pitt was the original option. Lastly, the Pitt/St. Andrews thing was a convenient workaround that allowed the drivers to set the sign once and not have to keep changing at every end point every hour. At one point the supervisors started enforcing the requirement to display either St. Andrews, PITT or Pitt and Second.

Thanks for this history of the Pitt route. Where was the fare boundary? I shall guess Cornwall Centre Road.

>Transport Canada - the most eastern point for route 3 - Montreal; now NAV Canada

Yes, but this was never used as the destination for route 3. I don't know why they added that option to the destination sign. I've never seen it be used. Riders knew the 3 Montreal Road route would take them to TCTI.

When we went into the NAV Canada loop, I signed up the bus as 3 TRANSPORT CANADA because a) it's no longer called that and B) I like signing up the bus to indicate our present location. I thought it was a pretty novel exposure. I also think that if they added the Easton/Dunbar exposure to short turn the Montreal Road line, then Transport Canada would indicate that the line would be fully served. But that's just my theory.

>Chartered

Not often seen.

That's too bad. Charter rates are going up five dollars per hour for 2009. It's still a great deal compared to other cities. Only the RTL offers me a better deal.

>Boundary Road - ?

One of the traditional destinations, referring to one of the industrial route destinations.

Thanks, I am tempted to make use of this one for the next charter.

>Western Industrial Plaza - guessing for Western Industrial Plaza but precise details would be beneficial

I don't think this ever materialized but it could have been intended for Domtar, BASF and such.

I heard something similar from the division manager, but the route did exist. As you well know, Cornwall Transit garage IS in the Western Industrial Plaza and it's very depressing what happened to Domtar... I don't think it's been razed to the ground yet but it's in a very sorry state and there's no point serving a dead/dying industrial park with reinforced service, so the emphasis has been placed on buses going east. And even then the supplemental service has been reduced over time!

>City Centre - guessing this is another exposure for Pitt & Second

Or downtown-only tours like perhaps for Cornfest or photo opps.

Photo ops eh? Better use it for the next charter.

>Cornwall Transit

For photo opps and training.

Done!

>Levis - ?

Yes, there used to be a Levis jeans plant in Cornwall and they had pickup service. Goes back quite a long time in the industrial history of the city.

Do you know where the factory used to be? I think this would also be a pretty novel and unique exposure

>E.S.L.C. - for Ecole Secondaire La Citadelle

>S.L.H.S. - for St. Lawrence High School

>C.C.V.S. - for Cornwall Collegiate and Vocational School

>G.V.S.S. / St. Joseph - for General Vanier Secondary School and St. Joseph's Catholic Secondary School

>GV / St. Joe Via McConnell - see above

>GV / St. Joe Via Cumberland - see above

>E.S.L.C. / S.L.H.S. - see above

Ah yes, all the school specials. They lost all these contracts in 2005, which was a huge blow for the system and caused the retirements of many buses. This represented a lot of business for CT.

Shucks. I thought that Cornwall Transit still had school extras. I'll definitely route the buses past the schools then. Who did they lose the contract to, First Student?

>Easton / Dunbar - guessing this is for a short turn of route 3 that does not go to Transport Canada (now NAV Canada)

Ah yes. This one. I have some video footage I took on this route back in 1995 with a driver friend of mine. This was one of the school specials which I think did a pickup at La Citadelle (?) french school and went on a route through east end down to easton and dunbar. The bus we had that day? 7618! No power steering.

With respect, this doesn't quite answer my question although I think you're agreeing with my assumption.

>Civic Complex - guessing this is a short turn exposure

Photo opps and specials. I have a photo of 9449 in front of the complex with that in its destination sign. More recently I think some routes go into the complex?

Yes sir! It's already in the charter report. And for the record, route 3 goes in and does the loop. There is a similar loop at St. Lawrence College that we took advantage of. Who says there are no photo opportunity locations in Cornwall anyway!

>Zones 1, 2, 3

Yep, dial a bus, which was introduced in March 1997 for evening and Saturday service.

Oh ok... probably won't use it then.

>Power Dam

I never saw this in use.

In that case I'll try to find out from the top. And if you have a map to scan for me I'd be very appreciative.

Now I have a question: what was the routing of your latest charter on 9446?

It is as follows:

YUL Bus Charters -- Ontario Tripper 2008, Cornwall Transit 944X

Charter Directions for Saturday 22 November 2008

Legend: L. = left turn; R. = right turn

START: Cornwall Transit Garage, Employee Parking Lot -- loading at 11:50a, departure 12:00p

Note to driver: Please take the quickest route to VIA Cornwall -- suggested route:

L. 2nd Street West

L. Brookdale Avenue

R. 13th Street West

L. Pitt Street

R. Balmoral Avenue

L. Station Road

Photostop 01: VIA Cornwall in parking lot "loop." Sign: Improvise

Return on Station Road

R. Balmoral Avenue

L. Pitt Street

Photostop 02: Pitt Street Southbound at an improvised location to be determined between Balmoral Avenue and 9th Street West. Sign: 1 - PITT

***deleted from here***

R. 9th Street West

L. York Street

Photostop 03: York Street Southbound at an improvised location to be determined between 9th Street West and 2nd Street West. Sign: 3 - BROOKDALE

L. 2nd Street West

***resume from here***

Photostop 04: 2nd Street West between Augustus and Pitt Streets. We want to take pictures of buses arriving at and departing from the transfer point at 12:45 p.m. Please advice the drivers working on Saturday of our activity so that they won't be taken by surprise.

R. Pitt Street

L. Water Street East

R. Civic Complex (second entrance)

Photostop 05: Civic Complex in parking lot loop. Sign: 3 - CIVIC COMPLEX

R. Montreal Road via Water Street East

R. St. Lawrence College

Photostop 06: St. Lawrence College in parking lot loop. Sign: 3 - MONTREAL ROAD

R. Montreal Road

L. NAV Canada

Photostop 07: NAV Canada loop. Sign: 3 - TRANSPORT CANADA

L. Montreal Road

L. Boundary Road

L. Marleau Avenue

L. Mack Drive

R. Copeland Street

Photostop 08: To be improvised either on Mack Drive or on Copeland Street. Sign: EASTERN INDUSTRIAL PLAZA

L. Campbell Street

R. 2nd Street East

L. Billington Drive

Photostop 09: Billington Drive at Belvedere Crescent. Sign: 2 - SUNRISE ACRES

R. Walton Street

R. Anthony Street

L. 2nd Street East

Very quick bathroom break and snack stop at Tim Hortons, Eastcourt Mall

R. McConnell Avenue

L. Ridgewood Drive

Photostop 10: Ridgewood Drive at Marlborough Street. Sign: 1 - McCONNELL

R. Marlborough Street

L. 9th Street East

L. Brookdale Avenue

R. Queen Street 7th Street West

Photostop 11: Queen Street between Robertson and Westmooreland Avenues. Sign: 2 - RIVERDALE

L. Westmooreland Avenue

L. 2nd Street West

END: Cornwall Transit Garage, Employee Parking Lot -- estimated arrival time 2:15p

Photos to be taken of buses outside the garage and group photos.

PS I know you're dying for a trip report railbus. My charter website should be updated within 24-48 hours. My webmaster has to get back to me on it. I will let people know of the update in my YUL Bus Charters thread in the Montreal section.

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D40LF

D40LF

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As well, the following 78s were refurbished in 1995-96: 7825, 7826, 7829 and 7824. After 1998, 7827 and 7828 plus at least one of the 77s were refurbished. The classic silver fluting and comfy bench seats gave way to white painted fluting and hard plastic seats.

I just noticed in my photo collection that 7723 has the lower silver fluting painted white, while 7722 was still silver when retired at the back of the garage in 2004.

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D40LF

D40LF

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Maybe it was just painted, couldve been from a accident, rebuild or sheer bordem of garage employees..

As railbus noted at least one of the 77s was refurbished along with the 78s. When refurbished the 78s received new paint with the lower silver panels painted white.

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