2024 40' Trolleybus Procurement

[martin607]

23 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

https://cptdb.ca/topic/19926-vancouver-trolleybus-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=973803

Do the Solaris Trollinos use Kiepe propulsion? If so, then this might also be a demonstrator for the new propulsion system, even if Flyer and not Solaris makes the bodies.

Often they do, but this demonstrator happens to have a traction package from another Polish company called Medcom. So why send a bus with Medcom rather than Kiepe or Skoda electric equipment? I don't believe it is anything more sinister than that the bus was already being used as a demonstrator and was readily available.

Article in Czech with a complicated story.https://www.cs-dopravak.cz/solaris-hodla-testovat-v-cesku-a-na-slovensku-vlastni-trolejbus/

[T3G]

From the Czech Wikipedia, the following propulsion packages are listed as options for the Trollino 12 Meter:

Trobus Gdynia
Ganz-Skoda
TV Progress
TV Europulse
Medcom
Astra

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_Trollino_12

[martin607]

On 8/6/2023 at 8:19 PM, T3G said:

From the Czech Wikipedia, the following propulsion packages are listed as options for the Trollino 12 Meter:

Trobus Gdynia
Ganz-Skoda
TV Progress
TV Europulse
Medcom
Astra

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_Trollino_12

The summary in the sidebar of the article gives a somewhat misleading impression as most firms listed above are one-offs or deliveries from a long time ago. If you go to page 10 of the Solaris catalogue, they list three suppliers of traction packages: Medcom; Skoda and Kiepe as options, but I guess an agency could opt for a different package if they wished.https://www.solarisbus.com/public/assets/content/pojazdy/Katalogi_2023/EN_Zeroemisyjne_1920_x_1080.pdf

There is a fourth supplier, Cegelec of Czech Republic which equipped trolleybuses for Salzburg about ten years ago.

Broadly speaking, Medcom tends to equip Trollinos supplied in Poland and the Baltic States, Kiepe Electric supplies in Germany and Italy and Skoda is dominant in central Europe and the Balkans.

Edited August 8 by martin607
spelling

[981]

I think you guys would be interested in this:

https://www.solarisbus.com/en/press/tests-of-the-solaris-trollino-trolleybus-in-canada-2033

"Trollino's presentation in Vancouver is another step in the implementation of Solaris' strategy of entering the USA and Canada with its offer. In the coming years, the manufacturer is considering offering exclusively zero-emission vehicles on those markets, i.e. battery, hydrogen, and trolleybuses."

[Express691]

20 minutes ago, 981 said:

I think you guys would be interested in this:

https://www.solarisbus.com/en/press/tests-of-the-solaris-trollino-trolleybus-in-canada-2033
<snip>

Yes - Although the Buy Canadian/American-related legislation is in effect (whatever it is), there will definitely be some bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles (some of which can be nitpicky) for them to clear, especially in the jobs department. ETI (San Fran//Dayton Skoda 14tr fleets) was able to start up shop in the early 1990s here in North America - What challenges might a company like Solaris face in the context of 2023?

[981]

17 minutes ago, Express691 said:

Yes - Although the Buy Canadian/American-related legislation is in effect (whatever it is), there will definitely be some bureaucratic and regulatory hurdles (some of which can be nitpicky) for them to clear, especially in the jobs department. ETI (San Fran//Dayton Skoda 14tr fleets) was able to start up shop in the early 1990s here in North America - What challenges might a company like Solaris face in the context of 2023?

The biggest and most obvious challenge is convincing agencies that their product is worth buying over established names, such as NFI and Novabus

Another issue would also be support. For example, Van Hool fell on their faces with York Region Transit because they never had a support network in Canada, so YRT had to go all the way to Belgium for anything, which means that things like getting spare parts is extremely expensive and takes forever because it has to come from Belgium

As for the Buy America legislation, CAF, the Spanish parent company of Solaris, does operate a manufacturing facility in New York state. Maybe that facility can be used in some way to get around that legislation?

[Express691]

21 minutes ago, 981 said:

Another issue would also be support. For example, Van Hool fell on their faces with York Region Transit because they never had a support network in Canada, so YRT had to go all the way to Belgium for anything, which means that things like getting spare parts is extremely expensive and takes forever because it has to come from Belgium

I agree - You'd hope they'd be willing to somehow establish some sort of aftermarket parts facility. 

I think the overall scene is tricky. You need another bus company to compete with the big three (NFI-Nova-Gillig (US)) to hopefully reduce the likelihood of price gouging (diseconomies of scale) but at the same time, balance that out with a sustainable support network, which is something that's been really hard to do right now owing to years of global shipping and logistics shortages. Even now, look at how long it took for the recent E500 models (21400) to go into service after being spotted in Langley.

RMtransit makes some really good points in a youtube video.

This just adds pressure to the Solaris NA team to have as much as a presence not just in Vancouver but in the other trolleybus cities in NA (possibly including Mexico).

[M. Parsons]

A lot of Canadian agencies are now requiring Altoona reports as part of their tender process, and of course it's a requirement of US purchases. While the test just used to be a generate a report, that report now does now for the past few years feature pass/ fail criteria.

Solaris is very likely going to need to get something through Altoona if they want to do much in the North American market.