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Bus route changes as a result of the REM service launching


brianc1981
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I figured that this would be a good place to put all sorts of bus changes as a result of the REM, as it is multiple transit systems that will be impacted by the new train service. As posted on Wikipedia there are lots of bus bays at certain stations so it would make sense for routes to be modified to service the stations

South Shore and Central section (all branches)[edit]

All stations on the main branch of the Réseau express métropolitain are projected to have a train frequency of 2.5 minutes during rush hour and every 5 minutes otherwise, both towards Brossard station and towards the three different branches.

Station Opening for REM[2] Opened Parking spots[30] Bike racks Connections
Brossard Q4 2022 N/A 2950 50 RTLExo; 22 bus platforms
Du Quartier Q4 2022 None 74 RTL; street stops only
Panama Q4 2022 700 200 Terminus Brossard-Panama; RTL and Exo; 31 bus platforms
Île-des-Soeurs Q4 2022 None 20 STM; 4 bus platforms
Griffintown–Bernard-Landry 2023 None None STM; street stops only
Central Station Q4 2022 1943 None None VIA Rail Canada simplified.svgAmtrakAmtrakAMT Mont-Saint-Hilaire icon.png Mont-Saint-Hilaire lineMtlMetro2.svg Bonaventure
Downtown Terminus (Terminus RTL), Société de transport de Montréal (STM)[31]
Several other nearby connections via the RÉSO underground city.
McGill Q4 2023 1966 None None MtlMetro1.svg McGill, STM
Several other nearby connections via the RÉSO underground city.
Édouard-Montpetit Q4 2023 1988 None 30 MtlMetro5.svg Édouard-Montpetit, STM
Canora Q4 2023 1918 None 100 STM
Ville-de-Mont-Royal Q4 2023 1918 None 60 STM
Côte-de-Liesse Q4 2023 N/A None 35 AMT Mascouche icon.png Mascouche line; STM; street stops only
Montpellier Q4 2023 1918 None 60 STM; street stops only
Du Ruisseau Q4 2023 1994 1,060 45 STM, STL; 1 bus platform and street stops
Bois-Franc Q2 2024 1994 740 120 STM, STL; 6 bus platforms and street stops

Deux-Montagnes branch[edit]

Stations on the Deux-Montagnes branch are projected to run every five minutes during rush hour, and every fifteen minutes otherwise.

Station Opening for REM[2] Opened Parking spots Bike racks Connections
Sunnybrooke Q2 2024 1994 400 40 STM; street stops only
Pierrefonds-Roxboro Q2 2024 1944 1,140 80 STM; 6 bus platforms and street stops
Île-Bigras Q4 2024 1995 45 20 STL (taxibus only)
Sainte-Dorothée Q4 2024 1995 975 45 STL; 6 bus platforms
Grand-Moulin Q4 2024 1925[32] 304[33] 44 Exo; street stops only
Deux-Montagnes Q4 2024 1995 1,256[34] 247 Exo; 6 bus platforms and street stops

Airport branch[edit]

The Airport branch of the Réseau express métropolitain is projected to run every ten minutes during rush hour, and every fifteen minutes otherwise.

Station Planned opening[2] Parking spots Bike racks Connections
Marie-Curie End of 2024 None 20 STM; street stops only
YUL–Montréal–Trudeau Airport End of 2024 None None Connection to Montréal–Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport

Anse-à-l'Orme branch[edit]

The Anse-à-l'Orme (formerly Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue) branch of the Réseau express métropolitain is projected to run every ten minutes during rush hour, and every fifteen minutes otherwise.

Station Planned opening[2] Parking spots Bike racks Connections
Des Sources Q2 2024 500 20 STM; 1 bus platform and street stops
Fairview–Pointe-Claire Q2 2024 700 50 STM; 17 bus platforms
Kirkland Q2 2024 2,500 30 STM; 6 bus platforms
Anse-à-l'Orme Q2 2024 200 20 STM, Exo; 11 bus platforms

I already have had confirmation that no buses from the south shore will operate into downtown Montreal, so that would mean that routes like the 45 and 90 would be cancelled (which was obvious anyways) as well as all the peak directional service. I would assume all the EXO service would just terminate at either Panama or Brossard Station. My hope would be the RTL service would be simplified, as so many routes loop all over and some routes run along the path of other routes. I was told at one point that the majority of routes in the RTL system were designed to service as many areas as possible so that the majority of riders wouldn't be transferring unless they were going into Montreal. So my hope would be a lot of routes would be simplified and maybe leading to transfer points throughout the area. Also taking the service hours of all the routes that currently operate into Montreal and pumping it into local service would allow for major frequency upgrades. Especially on routes that have hourly service outside of rush hours. It makes it very hard to attract new riders when bus service runs hourly and there is not good connections to other buses, for those that do need to transfer. 

In Laval I would assume there will also be a lot of changes so that buses will feed Île-Bigras and Sainte-Dorothée stations. Even though the Île-Bigras station is just an STL Taxibus service I would assume that with growth in the area and 4 trains per hour in each direction outside of rush hour, that there will eventually need to be more then a Taxibus service. Sainte-Dorothée if I recall correctly, is mostly surrounded by residential but there is currently a bunch of peak hour bus service that operate to the Metro. There is also a lot of areas around Sainte-Dorothée that have retail and medical or other things that will bring people over. So my assumption is there will be modifications to service there. 

As for Montreal I am not sure how many changes will be made, as there are already a lot of buses that will run in the area already, especially at Fairview–Pointe-Claire where there is already a bus loop (that will be relocated) and a bunch of existing service. Kirkland has a lot of bus service in the area and as far as I can recall the only change I have heard would be the 470 bus being extended to that station. 

I have tried to look for route changes based on the new REM trains but haven't found anything, but if people know more about it or when people here it, I think this is a great thread to post in.

If me creating a new thread is not allowed please move this to the correct spot. I was going to put it in the REM thread but I didn't want bus route changes mixed with train information, as technically these will be different systems.

 

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There have been consultations regarding this over the past few years.

The STM has their consultations available here: https://parlons-en.stm.info

So far, there are more concrete proposals for Île-des-Sœurs: https://parlons-en.stm.info/media/default/0001/01/7270037f723ad8aa2f51aefa1de063dc4fa480f5.pdf

The RTL has their proposed changes available here: https://www.consultationrtl.ca/phase2

Exo has been doing consultations as well, available here: https://consultations.exo.quebec. Here are some proposals for CRC, Le Richelain and Roussillon: https://exo.quebec/Media/Default/pdf/section7/Consultations/REFONTE_CRC-LR-R_CP2_Réseaubonifie_avril2021.pdf

 

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I have it on good authority that the RTL 55 will still serve Montreal-Downtown as a connection to St-Lambert.

Ile Bigras can not accommodate anything bigger than a midi-bus. I do some residential deliveries around the station with a 10-Wheel truck and it is tight, no way a 40 foot bus will be able to manoeuvre on those small streets safely,

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Want it or not, the bus routes have to change. Keep in mind that the goal of the project is to compete with the existing transportation systems to amass profits. The clause of non-competition forbids routes operating into Downtown Montréal from defined departure bassins off-island.

As to the RTL, here is the map of proposed new system. The 55 will be the only one operating into downtown MTL.

The consultations at the STM are moving rather slowly. From what I gather from their synthesis after the consultations, there will not be major-scale changes due to budgetary issues. Their plan is for the modified system to be up such that it will cover the blue line extension as well, which is still years away.

20 hours ago, brianc1981 said:

Sainte-Dorothée if I recall correctly, is mostly surrounded by residential but there is currently a bunch of peak hour bus service that operate to the Metro.

I think you may be referring to the 713, 730 and 744, which are created as temporary measures to mitigate the Deux-Montagnes line closure. I presume the changes in Laval will be minor, since there is already a loop at Ste-Dorothée with several other 7-day routes (26, 76 and 903), including the 26 which is very frequent. For residents north of the station, the 76 and 903 already cover their need to the station, and for those living to the east, there is already a frequent service going to the REM.

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On 3/26/2022 at 2:45 PM, Frozen Yogurt said:

I think you may be referring to the 713, 730 and 744, which are created as temporary measures to mitigate the Deux-Montagnes line closure. I presume the changes in Laval will be minor, since there is already a loop at Ste-Dorothée with several other 7-day routes (26, 76 and 903), including the 26 which is very frequent. For residents north of the station, the 76 and 903 already cover their need to the station, and for those living to the east, there is already a frequent service going to the REM.

I would think that service changes in Laval would be minimal but I did here at one point that they are looking to redesign the network in ways that there would be more express buses across Laval, and to simplify some of the routes. Mostly just so that some runs are more direct. As ridership has gone down (due to covid), the best way to get riders back is  create a good simple network that doesn't do major overlaps with other buses. In fact what I have seen in my time up in Laval (before when I lived there) I noticed that there were areas that had 5 or 6 buses that serviced the same stop or same intersection and they would all go to Montmorency station, and most of them would go to a similar area as the ending point. If that could be simplified to say 2 routes then you could free up buses to other routes and increase frequency. I also recall that several routes would operate from the same point a and b, but would operate only a few blocks away, and sometimes they would loop through the same residential area intersecting each other. It would make sense from a logistical standpoint to just cancel one of the routes, meaning people may have to walk a little farther to catch a bus but it would make sense, to feed more people onto one route instead of dividing ridership between two routes. It may also help to extend the ending point of some routes to better connect riders with other routes. I used to take one bus  when I lived there and then I would have to walk about 10 minutes to connect with another bus to get to where I was going. The second bus started in the area that I would get on as well. So it never made sense to me that those were 2 separate routes with a gap, and not 1 whole route. I know they have made some changes as this was close to 15 years ago, but I know there are a lot more changes that would make sense, as well as feeding people to the REM train instead of the Metro. The Metro can be crowded at times and the REM could potentially help reduce the crowding of people coming from Laval. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/26/2022 at 2:45 PM, Frozen Yogurt said:

As to the RTL, here is the map of proposed new system. The 55 will be the only one operating into downtown MTL.

I don't mean to single the poster above out exclusively but I just want to state some facts. The RTL is not banned from operating in downtown Montreal. They are merely strongly discouraged from crossing the new Champlain Bridge.

There will be additional services crossing to downtown Montreal apart from the 55.

According to the following links, route 170 will be extended from Métro Papineau to TCV:  LINK 1 LINK 2

Boucherville express trippers 86 and 87 will continue to operate to TCV, most likely via J-C Bridge exclusively as opposed to am rush only. LINK 3

The following link describes the changes that should be implemented, however none of these should be considered as final as more changes will follow at a final date. LINK 4

I am not at liberty to discuss the changes that have already been modified from what is on the consultation website. Truthfully the drivers are not completely in the know yet, and I suspect we will find out the changes at the same time as the general public.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SMS said:

I don't mean to single the poster above out exclusively but I just want to state some facts. The RTL is not banned from operating in downtown Montreal. They are merely strongly discouraged from crossing the new Champlain Bridge.

There will be additional services crossing to downtown Montreal apart from the 55.

According to the following links, route 170 will be extended from Métro Papineau to TCV: LINK ALSO THIS LINK

Boucherville express trippers 86 and 87 will continue to operate to TCV, most likely via J-C Bridge. LINK

The fllowing link describes the changes that should be implemented, however more will follow at a final stage. LINK

I was referring to a few documents with the map shown, including this one for example: https://rem.info/sites/default/files/document/2018-04-23-SommaireFR-EntenteFR.pdf. I quoted a few blah blah articles below, which to my understanding, sounds effectively like "banning" bus service going to downtown Montréal. The bassins are mostly south of the Mont-St-Hilaire train line, which comprises a good portion of the RTL territory. The departure point of the 55, 86, 87 and 170 outlined however, fall outside this range, and thus would be allowed to keep operating. 

As to the 170, 86 and 87, I glossed over the more detailed maps by sector. Sorry about this.

Quote

3.4.1 Sous réserve de l’article 3.4.2, l’Autorité s’engage à ce que, à compter de la mise en service commercial du REM ou du Segment pertinent de ce dernier et jusqu’à l’expiration de la Durée ou la résiliation anticipée de la présente Entente, selon le cas :

  1. a)  aucun service de transport collectif (excluant le transport adapté) ne soit offert reliant l’un ou l’autre des Bassins de non-concurrence pour les Antennes Deux-Montagnes, Ste- Anne-de-Bellevue et Rive-Sud, respectivement, au Centre-ville de Montréal;

  2. b)  aucun service de transport collectif (excluant le transport adapté) ne soit offert entre la Rive-Sud de Montréal et le Centre-ville de Montréal en empruntant le Pont-Champlain;

  3. c)  aucun service de transport collectif (excluant le transport adapté) ne soit offert reliant directement l’aéroport Pierre-Elliott-Trudeau et le Centre-ville de Montréal; et

  4. d)  aucun service de transport express (excluant le transport adapté) ne soit offert entre l’aéroport Pierre-Eliott-Trudeau et la station de métro Lionel-Groux.

(P.S. "métro Lionel-Groux"...)

Now, this may be unpopular here, but I'm not a fan of it. It would entirely make sense for bus services to end at REM stations, however going out to write all the above is just in extremely bad faith.

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51 minutes ago, Frozen Yogurt said:

 Sorry about this.

I certainly don't want an apology. I have pored over the maps in details because these changes will directly affect my livelihood. I have an interest to learn the modifications, and once made official, I will post them here.

I would like to see the 747 run to Angrignon Metro once the REM serves YUL.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 4/25/2022 at 11:46 AM, yikeslol said:

Nah sounds like the 747 is getting abolished once the rem is open.

That would really be a shame.

People need alternatives if the REM breaks down. Which will happen, coz breakdowns happen on all systems. The experience of Ottawa implementing LRT has been very difficult, partially because there are no parallel bus routes that run alongside the LRT. The transit agency had to implement a dedicated fleet of replacement buses -- that are waiting on standby in a parking lot, in case of a breakdown, ready to jump into service when needed..

Montreal could instead keep the redundant routes in service, instead of keeping a fleet of parked buses ready to go in the event of a REM service outage.

Also, for people going to destinations other than downtown, it's nice to have options to get around. People living in LaSalle, Verdun and Lachine East could all benefit from catching the 747 to YUL from Angrignon.

 

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4 hours ago, Chris_the_traveller said:

Montreal could instead keep the redundant routes in service

The problem is it's all logical and all, but it bites into the profitability of the REM.

Quote

instead of keeping a fleet of parked buses ready to go in the event of a REM service outage.

4 hours ago, Chris_the_traveller said:

People need alternatives if the REM breaks down.

The promoter of the project certainly isn't worried about this. And when it happens, the transit agencies will be ready to pull out buses and drivers off regular routes to help!

At least, what is said. I really would be curious to see how the STM will be able to lend a hand if the REM breaks down on their territory... since they're digging themselves into a bus shortage hole again - planning to retire all rear ramp buses by 2024 (there are 206 of them from 2007 & 2008), while not purchasing a single new bus. It's definitely a recipe for disaster service-wise, but at least the STM will look so beautiful and clean in the media.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/30/2022 at 9:04 PM, Frozen Yogurt said:

The problem is it's all logical and all, but it bites into the profitability of the REM.

The promoter of the project certainly isn't worried about this. And when it happens, the transit agencies will be ready to pull out buses and drivers off regular routes to help!

At least, what is said. I really would be curious to see how the STM will be able to lend a hand if the REM breaks down on their territory... since they're digging themselves into a bus shortage hole again - planning to retire all rear ramp buses by 2024 (there are 206 of them from 2007 & 2008), while not purchasing a single new bus. It's definitely a recipe for disaster service-wise, but at least the STM will look so beautiful and clean in the media.

Hahaha I really hope the stm would cry again knowing they are again at shortage of buses

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  • 3 months later...

So I have looked over some of the service changes that are proposed for the RTL service, but my thought is there is so much overlap and redundancy out there. So many buses either run to Panama or the Metro, or both. I would think that with the REM service coming in that many routes could be shortened. New express routes could travel from different major areas to connect to the Metro or the REM service. Could easily improve frequencies as well instead of running multiple routes that basically travel to and from the same areas. I noticed when looking at maps that there are several buses that travel to Panama that more or less follow the same routing or go within a couple blocks of other buses. Seems like a lot of overlap. With the new train and less buses running downtown you would think this would be the time to drastically improve the system and boost ridership. Brossard station will have 22 bays and Panama will have 31 and from what I could see but maybe I am wrong, was that most of the buses at Brossard station will travel to Panama and the rest will travel to LONGUEUIL-UNIVERSITÉ-DE-SHERBROOKE metro. In my opinion a lot of buses could travel locally around Brossard station and at Panama several routes could just travel locally and the routes that go to places like Promenade St Bruno or the Metro could be express routes. To me it makes more sense. Shorter routes more frequency and run a few crosstown services that do not connect to a train but to other major points. Just my opinion

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