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Red Arrow Coaches


sdgta2008
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I saw a Facebook earlier today that Red Arrow is looking for feedback in terms of an Ontario expansion.  It seems that they want a piece of Highway 401 action in between universities:

London - Toronto

Toronto - Kingston - Ottawa

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2 hours ago, sdgta2008 said:

I saw a Facebook earlier today that Red Arrow is looking for feedback in terms of an Ontario expansion.  It seems that they want a piece of Highway 401 action in between universities:

London - Toronto

Toronto - Kingston - Ottawa

Wow, Toronto - London is already crowded with Megabus, Onex Bus, Great Canadian and Rider Express. Not sure if there is any ridership left for Red Arrow, unless its a premium service with the 2+1 seating set up.

Toronto - Kingston - Ottawa has Megabus and Rider Express.

Toronto - Kingston has Megabus, Rider Express and Equinox Bus Lines which serves Gananoque.

If they even consider Toronto - Niagara Falls you have Megabus, Equinox Bus Lines/Ourbus and later on Greyhound Lines and Adirondack Trailways to Buffalo.

I have to say, Red Arrow showed up to the party a little late!

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I’m somewhat surprised nobody is challenging Ontario Northland for the Sudbury run at least. The greater Sudbury area (admittedly a massive area encompassing half wilderness) has a comparable population to Kingston.

Is it the advantage of government subsidy keeping the Northland fares lower than the private sector could bear? I’m honestly curious.

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I see Red Arrow and ebus have now switched to the betterez ticketing platform..thats a pretty major change for them since i think they've had their own booking system since they started doing online tickets. 

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On 10/16/2021 at 7:34 PM, Bus_Medic said:

I’m somewhat surprised nobody is challenging Ontario Northland for the Sudbury run at least. The greater Sudbury area (admittedly a massive area encompassing half wilderness) has a comparable population to Kingston.

Is it the advantage of government subsidy keeping the Northland fares lower than the private sector could bear? I’m honestly curious.

A brand new Coach would be about $7,000 a month, Insurance would be $3,000 to $4,000 a month based on the operating radius and a seating capacity of 56, there would be a balloon payment on the Coach for $200,000. Fuel would be at $350 to $400 a day. Driver's like to be paid at $300 a day or more plus you got your maintenance, parking and cleaning.

Let's say with all the overheads mentioned with a 30% profit margin we are looking at $1,800 a day.

Northland is charging $70 one way.

If both runs can guarantee 50 passengers combined, the fare would be $36 one way, which is impressive compared to Northland's fare of $70!

However, based on what Northland is charging, they are getting 25 rides combined, meaning the ridership on the Toronto - Sudbury route is pretty bad compared to Megabus' route between Toronto and Montreal and Rider Express' route between Toronto and Ottawa.

Equinox Bus Lines is using a 10 Passenger vehicle (they seem to cap the ridership at 10) and is charging $30 CAD between Toronto and Buffalo so it seems they are getting 10 to 20 rides combined which pays their bills and then some.

Greyhound Canada's regular fare between Toronto and Sudbury is $72 one way according to their Tariff: https://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/pfsm/pdf/sec10pto.pdf (See page 10.3) and that tells me they too never got no more than 25 riders combined.

It's not a profitable route, that's why none of the private guys are doing it. I should mention, bus insurance from 2019 to now has gone up over 30%!

1 hour ago, roeco said:

I see Red Arrow and ebus have now switched to the betterez ticketing platform..thats a pretty major change for them since i think they've had their own booking system since they started doing online tickets. 

Betterez charges $1.50 per ticket booked per month. The Carrier has nothing to do with the maintenance of the platform. It's low overhead costs for the Carrier and the passengers are pretty much paying for it!

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On 10/17/2021 at 9:58 PM, Megabus Rider said:

A brand new Coach would be about $7,000 a month, Insurance would be $3,000 to $4,000 a month based on the operating radius and a seating capacity of 56, there would be a balloon payment on the Coach for $200,000. Fuel would be at $350 to $400 a day. Driver's like to be paid at $300 a day or more plus you got your maintenance, parking and cleaning.

Let's say with all the overheads mentioned with a 30% profit margin we are looking at $1,800 a day.

Northland is charging $70 one way.

If both runs can guarantee 50 passengers combined, the fare would be $36 one way, which is impressive compared to Northland's fare of $70!

However, based on what Northland is charging, they are getting 25 rides combined, meaning the ridership on the Toronto - Sudbury route is pretty bad compared to Megabus' route between Toronto and Montreal and Rider Express' route between Toronto and Ottawa.

Equinox Bus Lines is using a 10 Passenger vehicle (they seem to cap the ridership at 10) and is charging $30 CAD between Toronto and Buffalo so it seems they are getting 10 to 20 rides combined which pays their bills and then some.

Greyhound Canada's regular fare between Toronto and Sudbury is $72 one way according to their Tariff: https://extranet.greyhound.com/revsup/pfsm/pdf/sec10pto.pdf (See page 10.3) and that tells me they too never got no more than 25 riders combined.

It's not a profitable route, that's why none of the private guys are doing it. I should mention, bus insurance from 2019 to now has gone up over 30%!

Betterez charges $1.50 per ticket booked per month. The Carrier has nothing to do with the maintenance of the platform. It's low overhead costs for the Carrier and the passengers are pretty much paying for it!

No wonder why Betterez is so popular...! Cold Shot was the first one to start using it in the West and then Rider followed and seems more are switching to it.

On 10/15/2021 at 9:54 PM, Megabus Rider said:

Wow, Toronto - London is already crowded with Megabus, Onex Bus, Great Canadian and Rider Express. Not sure if there is any ridership left for Red Arrow, unless its a premium service with the 2+1 seating set up.

Toronto - Kingston - Ottawa has Megabus and Rider Express.

Toronto - Kingston has Megabus, Rider Express and Equinox Bus Lines which serves Gananoque.

If they even consider Toronto - Niagara Falls you have Megabus, Equinox Bus Lines/Ourbus and later on Greyhound Lines and Adirondack Trailways to Buffalo.

I have to say, Red Arrow showed up to the party a little late!

Id say PWT/Red Arrow showed up a little more than too late.

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