NFTA-Metro

[MatthewGr]

5 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

Dunno, but am curious when and how the BRT system is going to run here.

 

I thought the Niagara corridor would have started by now.  In addition, there's this curiousity if the Kenmore portion would be a part of it, or would it be separated, and go back to the #30 line.  It's surprising that about ten-fifteen years ago, the 30 Kenmore barely had Saturday service (>60 minute waits), and the Sunday portion was in it's infancy (with even longer waits...if it was even offered at the time).

 

 

Maybe then buffalo will have artics

On 3/7/2018 at 3:31 PM, I Alam said:

Those 2017 Diesel Nova are probably some of the nicest Nova's I've ever seen.  

 

On 3/7/2018 at 3:31 PM, I Alam said:

Those 2017 Diesel Nova are probably some of the nicest Nova's I've ever seen.  

 

So the 2017 Novas are not CNG?

[I Alam]

4 hours ago, MatthewGr said:

 

Maybe then buffalo will have artics

 

 

So the 2017 Novas are not CNG?

There is both a CNG and Diesel split on the 2017 order. 

 

The CNG novas look too bulky imo.

[MatthewGr]

3 hours ago, I Alam said:

There is both a CNG and Diesel split on the 2017 order. 

 

The CNG novas look too bulky imo.

 

Whats the number series for both. Does anyone have up to date nfta coach roster.

[map.man (Darrin)]

3 hours ago, MatthewGr said:

 

Whats the number series for both. Does anyone have up to date nfta coach roster.

All the info is on the wiki.

[MatthewGr]

8 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

All the info is on the wiki.

Thank you i checked it out. I think the ugliest bus nfta has is that 29 ft Gillig most company’s do the 35 ft buses in my option that would of looked better. Interesting seeing they still have 2 nfta cars in the old style which I wonder if they run often. Shocked they only have 27 cars 

[I Alam]

6 hours ago, MatthewGr said:

Thank you i checked it out. I think the ugliest bus nfta has is that 29 ft Gillig most company’s do the 35 ft buses in my option that would of looked better. Interesting seeing they still have 2 nfta cars in the old style which I wonder if they run often. Shocked they only have 27 cars 

Before January I used to see them a lot. I haven't seen them since January, but I haven't been on the tram much either. 

[map.man (Darrin)]

At the early plans, trains were schedules to run every five minutes with two trains per set.  If not mistaking, this leaves three cars as spares, approximately 9-10% of the fleet.

The 29 foot buses are relegated (normally) to lightly used runs, such as Niagara Falls, 35-Sheridan, and 29-Wohlers, to name a few.  The 29 for buses are preferred on the 29-Wohlers, due to the narrow side streets in the East Side of Buffalo.

[MatthewGr]

16 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

At the early plans, trains were schedules to run every five minutes with two trains per set.  If not mistaking, this leaves three cars as spares, approximately 9-10% of the fleet.

The 29 foot buses are relegated (normally) to lightly used runs, such as Niagara Falls, 35-Sheridan, and 29-Wohlers, to name a few.  The 29 for buses are preferred on the 29-Wohlers, due to the narrow side streets in the East Side of Buffalo.

 

Does anyone know where I can find good pictures of the NFTA fleet. 

[map.man (Darrin)]

Here's the new Metro MetGo farebox.  After digging a bit, I was able to find documentation on it.

https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Sales_FB50_EN.pdf

According to Metro Magazine, the CT-Dot and Hong Kongs' Octopus system use similar technology.  Quoting:  ' Project: Both Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority (NFTA) and the Connecticut Department of Transportation (CTDOT) will be rolling out the new FB50 fareboxes, says S&B’s Reese. Both NFTA and CTDOT will be account-based systems that utilize the FareGo solution and will be powered by the Octopus system (this is the software that drives the transit system in Hong Kong, with over 19 million transactions a day.).'  www.scheidt-bachmann.com

* http://www.metro-magazine.com/management-operations/article/710760/fare-technologies-adapt-to-growing-ridership-needs

Don't know which the NFTA is going to use for the Metro Rail Stations, but might be one of these...

FareGo Gate PG|40:  https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Gate_PG40_E.pdf

FareGo Gare SG|40:  https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Gate_SG40_E.pdf

[I Alam]

4 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

Here's the new Metro MetGo farebox.  After digging a bit, I was able to find documentation on it.

https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Sales_FB50_EN.pdf

According to Metro Magazine, the CT-Dot and Hong Kongs' Octopus system use similar technology.  Quoting:  ' Project: Both Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority (NFTA) and the Connecticut Department of Transportation (CTDOT) will be rolling out the new FB50 fareboxes, says S&B’s Reese. Both NFTA and CTDOT will be account-based systems that utilize the FareGo solution and will be powered by the Octopus system (this is the software that drives the transit system in Hong Kong, with over 19 million transactions a day.).'  www.scheidt-bachmann.com

* http://www.metro-magazine.com/management-operations/article/710760/fare-technologies-adapt-to-growing-ridership-needs

Don't know which the NFTA is going to use for the Metro Rail Stations, but might be one of these...

FareGo Gate PG|40:  https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Gate_PG40_E.pdf

FareGo Gare SG|40:  https://www.scheidt-bachmann.de/fileadmin/downloads/en/fare-collection-systems/FareGo/Flyer_FareGo_Gate_SG40_E.pdf

It seems that these fare boxes have more features than NFTA will probably use. But who knows, as for the fare gates the PG40 looks a lot better than the SG 40. hopefully, they go with that.

Hopefully, when they implement the smart card system, I hope they do something similar to TFL where after you spend $5 you are capped for the day. and after spending $25 you're capped for the week and, $75 for the month.

 

[map.man (Darrin)]

1 hour ago, I Alam said:

It seems that these fare boxes have more features than NFTA will probably use. But who knows, as for the fare gates the PG40 looks a lot better than the SG 40. hopefully, they go with that.

Hopefully, when they implement the smart card system, I hope they do something similar to TFL where after you spend $5 you are capped for the day. and after spending $25 you're capped for the week and, $75 for the month.

 

One of the things that was mentioned in their earlier report was the cap (which is expected). 

A bummer about this smart card system is that the system isn't used by any other nearby agency.

 

In Toronto (or Ontario, for that matter), many agencies opted to participate in the Presto Card system.  Would be nice to integrate all the systems and create something maybe called an "Empire Pass", where they can be used on different agencies.  Presto works in Hamilton, on the GO system, Barrie, and even Ottawa.

I would assume that the wider spread this technology gets too, the cheaper it might get for installation on buses and rail.  Imagine the benefits of having New York City influencing the cost of a system like that when the NFTA can piggyback onto that contract.  Works with buses.

[Transit geek]

22 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

One of the things that was mentioned in their earlier report was the cap (which is expected). 

A bummer about this smart card system is that the system isn't used by any other nearby agency.

 

In Toronto (or Ontario, for that matter), many agencies opted to participate in the Presto Card system.  Would be nice to integrate all the systems and create something maybe called an "Empire Pass", where they can be used on different agencies.  Presto works in Hamilton, on the GO system, Barrie, and even Ottawa.

I would assume that the wider spread this technology gets too, the cheaper it might get for installation on buses and rail.  Imagine the benefits of having New York City influencing the cost of a system like that when the NFTA can piggyback onto that contract.  Works with buses.

Not to mention that the Netherlands uses a common smartcard for the entire country, called the OV-chipcard. Similarly, nearby Belgium has a nation-wide smartcard called Mobib.

[I Alam]

IF NFTA were to use something combined with other agencies it should be with other operating in New York and the Tri-State area. Not with Canadian agencies. With how foreign currencies tend to fluctuate, it would be a huge mess.  

[map.man (Darrin)]

On 3/29/2018 at 4:51 PM, I Alam said:

IF NFTA were to use something combined with other agencies it should be with other operating in New York and the Tri-State area. Not with Canadian agencies. With how foreign currencies tend to fluctuate, it would be a huge mess.  

Don't know how they'd be a mess.  The company managing the card would just have to have a program handling the exchange rate, OR just have a set dollar amount taken off, regardless of the side of the border you're on.

 

For simplicity, I'd run it with a flat rate.  The fare boxes in Buffalo "take" Canadian quarters, and don't distinguish, at least what I know.  Chalk it up to doing business.  Additionally, agencies can also have it set up where they take a set rate if the money on the card is in a different currency from theirs.  Shouldn't be too bad.

 

[I Alam]

On 4/3/2018 at 12:11 PM, map.man (Darrin) said:

Don't know how they'd be a mess.  The company managing the card would just have to have a program handling the exchange rate, OR just have a set dollar amount taken off, regardless of the side of the border you're on.

 

For simplicity, I'd run it with a flat rate.  The fare boxes in Buffalo "take" Canadian quarters, and don't distinguish, at least what I know.  Chalk it up to doing business.  Additionally, agencies can also have it set up where they take a set rate if the money on the card is in a different currency from theirs.  Shouldn't be too bad.

 

Again that is still a pretty big logistical challenge. I doubt anyone at MetroLinx or NFTA would be interested programming such a card.

[map.man (Darrin)]

9 hours ago, I Alam said:

Again that is still a pretty big logistical challenge. I doubt anyone at MetroLinx or NFTA would be interested programming such a card.

I don't think that it's not doable.  Also, it's not the MetroLinx or NFTA that would be programming such card.  Presto is a vendor that handles all the programming for the agencies that opt in to using their fare system.  This includes other agencies such as Mississauga Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Oakville Transit and GO Transit, to name others.  Even Ottawa opted into the Presto Card, for use on their OC Transpo brand.

If the agency wants to have the ability to use their cards on an multi-national basis, it's not all that difficult.  More than one person is involved with the programming part of it, and I'm certain there are teams that specialize in certain aspects of the card, including the exchange rates used on "purses" for each agency or balance.  When I had used my Presto Card up in the GTA, I boarded GO at Union Station, rode to Burlington, tranferred to GO Transit to Stoney Creek, transferred to HSR, reboarded HSR, and then GO Transit to get back to Niagara Falls.  The purse (funds) attached to that card worked seamlessly across the agencies, and even allowed me a discount on my transfer to HSR, and treated my trip as continuous since my transfers happened within their transfer time limit window.

 

The purse feature is not all that difficult from that of a debit card, in which you draw from a balance on the card. 

Again, it falls on the card provider (like Mastercard or Visa...or Presto) to have that functionality built in.

[I Alam]

23 minutes ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

I don't think that it's not doable.  Also, it's not the MetroLinx or NFTA that would be programming such card.  Presto is a vendor that handles all the programming for the agencies that opt in to using their fare system.  This includes other agencies such as Mississauga Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, Oakville Transit and GO Transit, to name others.  Even Ottawa opted into the Presto Card, for use on their OC Transpo brand.

If the agency wants to have the ability to use their cards on an multi-national basis, it's not all that difficult.  More than one person is involved with the programming part of it, and I'm certain there are teams that specialize in certain aspects of the card, including the exchange rates used on "purses" for each agency or balance.  When I had used my Presto Card up in the GTA, I boarded GO at Union Station, rode to Burlington, tranferred to GO Transit to Stoney Creek, transferred to HSR, reboarded HSR, and then GO Transit to get back to Niagara Falls.  The purse (funds) attached to that card worked seamlessly across the agencies, and even allowed me a discount on my transfer to HSR, and treated my trip as continuous since my transfers happened within their transfer time limit window.

 

The purse feature is not all that difficult from that of a debit card, in which you draw from a balance on the card. 

Again, it falls on the card provider (like Mastercard or Visa...or Presto) to have that functionality built in.

I guess you're right about functionality being possible, however where I disagree with you is that Although it possible for Presto to be implemented in the US, I believe that it is unlikely to happen. 

[RailBus63]

The real issue is that New York State is either unwilling or unable to get its upstate transit agencies to work together on a common fare payment system.  The obvious solution would have been to convince them to adopt the MTA's Metrocard system years ago but that never happened.  All of the big upstate TA's have either recently bought new payment system or are doing so, so I doubt whatever the new MTA fare payment system will be in the future will be adopted statewide either.  

[map.man (Darrin)]

2 minutes ago, RailBus63 said:

The real issue is that New York State is either unwilling or unable to get its upstate transit agencies to work together on a common fare payment system.  The obvious solution would have been to convince them to adopt the MTA's Metrocard system years ago but that never happened.  All of the big upstate TA's have either recently bought new payment system or are doing so, so I doubt whatever the new MTA fare payment system will be in the future will be adopted statewide either.  

A directive from the governor a long time ago saying "prepare for this" could of allowed this to happen.

 

I would have loved to be able to use a purse of money I put on my NFTA card, and be able to use it in Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and New York.  My pass is almost ALWAYS on me, wherever I end up.

 

9 minutes ago, I Alam said:

I guess you're right about functionality being possible, however where I disagree with you is that Although it possible for Presto to be implemented in the US, I believe that it is unlikely to happen. 

With everything going "global" for the marketplace, I can't disagree with you more.

Any technology company that wants to profit, has to be able to do business abroad.  The fareboxes that the NFTA ordered, for example, are not created with America in mind.  They are used in other countries throughout the world.  if the money is there to grab, I bet dollars to donuts that they'd salivate at getting their hands on a number of American markets.

Other bus-related technologies are used in different countries, including NextBus, GFI Genfare, to name a few.

In addition, they're out there likely with that technology waiting to be implemented if and when it happens.

[I Alam]

3 hours ago, map.man (Darrin) said:

A directive from the governor a long time ago saying "prepare for this" could of allowed this to happen.

 

I would have loved to be able to use a purse of money I put on my NFTA card, and be able to use it in Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and New York.  My pass is almost ALWAYS on me, wherever I end up.

 

With everything going "global" for the marketplace, I can't disagree with you more.

Any technology company that wants to profit, has to be able to do business abroad.  The fareboxes that the NFTA ordered, for example, are not created with America in mind.  They are used in other countries throughout the world.  if the money is there to grab, I bet dollars to donuts that they'd salivate at getting their hands on a number of American markets.

Other bus-related technologies are used in different countries, including NextBus, GFI Genfare, to name a few.

In addition, they're out there likely with that technology waiting to be implemented if and when it happens.

I just find it hard to believe that NFTA would work to accept presto before Niagra Falls and Wego. I could see them, however, working with Rochester or Cuomo for a broad NYS fare structure. With how Cuomo acts I wouldn't be suprised if he all of a sudden announced a new card for the entire state.

[map.man (Darrin)]

The only agencies that the NFTA even comes near to connecting with are the Rural Niagara Public Transportation at Lockport and NCCC, and with the Seneca Transit System at the Seneca Bingo in Irving. 

The Citizens for Regional Transit have also looked to the possibility of GO linking up with an eventual commuter rail line from Buffalo into Niagara Falls, although that's a long way off.

If the Province of Ontario gets the Niagara Region to take on the Presto Card for their agencies connecting with GO, I have a feeling that there'd be an even chance that it could go either way.  From the convenience standpoint, NFTA Metro passengers would benefit from an integrated card system with GO, more than that of an Empire State managed card.  However, I'd take advantage of either if given the chance.  I do go to cities in either direction.

===========================================================================================

Did a little digging and found out more information on the 1947 PCC cars that the NFTA acquired from Cleveland RTA for planned use on the Tonawanda rail line a number of years back.

Before the RTA had use of them, they were in use by three more agencies:  the Cleveland Transit System, the Shaker Heights Rapid Transit system, and the Twin City Lines of Minneapolis, MN.

Quite an interesting history for them seeing five unique agencies in three cities!

[RailBus63]

A standardized New York State fare card wouldn't be so much for passenger convenience as it would be for greater buying power and (theoretically) lower purchasing and operating cost for the agencies.  I doubt there are many transit riders north of Westchester County who use more than one transit agency on a regular basis.

[TheAverageJoe]

On 4/9/2018 at 1:05 PM, map.man (Darrin) said:

The only agencies that the NFTA even comes near to connecting with are the Rural Niagara Public Transportation at Lockport and NCCC, and with the Seneca Transit System at the Seneca Bingo in Irving. 

The Citizens for Regional Transit have also looked to the possibility of GO linking up with an eventual commuter rail line from Buffalo into Niagara Falls, although that's a long way off.

If the Province of Ontario gets the Niagara Region to take on the Presto Card for their agencies connecting with GO, I have a feeling that there'd be an even chance that it could go either way.  From the convenience standpoint, NFTA Metro passengers would benefit from an integrated card system with GO, more than that of an Empire State managed card.  However, I'd take advantage of either if given the chance.  I do go to cities in either direction.

===========================================================================================

Did a little digging and found out more information on the 1947 PCC cars that the NFTA acquired from Cleveland RTA for planned use on the Tonawanda rail line a number of years back.

Before the RTA had use of them, they were in use by three more agencies:  the Cleveland Transit System, the Shaker Heights Rapid Transit system, and the Twin City Lines of Minneapolis, MN.

Quite an interesting history for them seeing five unique agencies in three cities!

You have a better chance of having a transit route from Niagara Falls Ontario to Niagara Falls New York before you get to that point.

[RailBus63]

Two new NFTA NovaBus LFS CNG's were spotted this afternoon on Interstate 81 north of Syracuse on their way to Buffalo - one was 1803.  

[edison]

14 hours ago, RailBus63 said:

Two new NFTA NovaBus LFS CNG's were spotted this afternoon on Interstate 81 north of Syracuse on their way to Buffalo - one was 1803.  

A couple of the diesel buses have been delivered this week.