Vancouver Trolleybus Discussion

[8010]

2 hours ago, Phillip said:

I had a trolley on a Monday during the extreme heatwave at the end of June when it reached 40C. I brought a thermometer to record the temp, it reached 45C in the driver seat. 

Everything was hot, my water bottle, everything in my backpack.

Can’t you guys complain to the union reps? I can imagine driving around in a 45 degree hotbox not being very safe for the drivers as it can lead to heat strokes, fainting and other potential issues.

[Community Shuttle]

14 hours ago, Phillip said:

I had a trolley on a Monday during the extreme heatwave at the end of June when it reached 40C. I brought a thermometer to record the temp, it reached 45C in the driver seat. 

Everything was hot, my water bottle, everything in my backpack.

Perhaps they heard your cries.

[Phillip]

I wonder how the personal driver AC units that ETS installed on all their non AC buses is working out? Sure would be useful here.

[GORDOOM]

On 8/10/2021 at 11:14 PM, Community Shuttle said:

Take this with a grain of salt but I heard from one source that the order of Nova LFSe+s was cancelled and a new order of trolleys was placed. If true, I guess the heat waves made them reconsider because every current trolley has the potential to become an oven on wheels.

This actually makes me a bit nervous vis-à-vis the future of the trolleybus network. My worry is that an emergency order like that will be very much a status quo order without taking the time to think through what would be best for us to get in the medium-to-long term. This means inter alia no consideration of changing the mix of 40' and 60' coaches and no consideration of implementing extended off-wire capability à la Kiepe's In-Motion Charging. This risks the trolleybus network becoming irrelevant sooner rather than later, even with the expense of all-new rolling stock.

[Community Shuttle]

11 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

This actually makes me a bit nervous vis-à-vis the future of the trolleybus network. My worry is that an emergency order like that will be very much a status quo order without taking the time to think through what would be best for us to get in the medium-to-long term. This means inter alia no consideration of changing the mix of 40' and 60' coaches and no consideration of implementing extended off-wire capability à la Kiepe's In-Motion Charging. This risks the trolleybus network becoming irrelevant sooner rather than later, even with the expense of all-new rolling stock.

I thought the latest XT models are coming standard with extended battery range that could allow for trolley R4s?

[anyfong]

2 minutes ago, Community Shuttle said:

I thought the latest XT models are coming standard with extended battery range that could allow for trolley R4s?

The R4 won't be a trolley route because it needs to overtake the regular 41 buses, and there's only one set of trolley wires per direction.

[martin607]

13 hours ago, anyfong said:

The R4 won't be a trolley route because it needs to overtake the regular 41 buses, and there's only one set of trolley wires per direction.

The obvious solution to that would to be make the R4 battery-trolleybus with In Motion Charging and make the infrequent 41 a non-trolleybus route, initially diesel and then battery bus. It is more appropriate to allocate trolleybuses to the heavier duty route.

[GORDOOM]

13 hours ago, anyfong said:

The R4 won't be a trolley route because it needs to overtake the regular 41 buses, and there's only one set of trolley wires per direction.

You could always make the less-used #41 the diesel/battery route.

That said, there's a lot of other routes I'd prioritize even higher:

• #9 and #14 to Brentwood
• #19 out of the loop at Metrotown
• #4 to Chancellor Blvd. and VCC-Clark to replace the #44/#84
• run more of the NightBus routes with trolleys

[martin607]

On 8/13/2021 at 6:14 PM, GORDOOM said:

This actually makes me a bit nervous vis-à-vis the future of the trolleybus network. My worry is that an emergency order like that will be very much a status quo order without taking the time to think through what would be best for us to get in the medium-to-long term. This means inter alia no consideration of changing the mix of 40' and 60' coaches and no consideration of implementing extended off-wire capability à la Kiepe's In-Motion Charging. This risks the trolleybus network becoming irrelevant sooner rather than later, even with the expense of all-new rolling stock.

I agree that any interim order would need to be carefully specified as a pilot to test out IMC in anticipation of the main replacement order to be placed in the middle of this decade. But given that the new NFI brochure advertises batteries capable of doing 22 miles (35km) off-wire for the XT40 and 15 miles on the XT60, they would be worthwhile demonstrators right now, e.g. tests on the R4 or using battery-trolleybus on the 9 showing how the IMCsystem can deal with wiring gaps.

[8010]

37 minutes ago, martin607 said:

I agree that any interim order would need to be carefully specified as a pilot to test out IMC in anticipation of the main replacement order to be placed in the middle of this decade. But given that the new NFI brochure advertises batteries capable of doing 22 miles (35km) off-wire for the XT40 and 15 miles on the XT60, they would be worthwhile demonstrators right now, e.g. tests on the R4 or using battery-trolleybus on the 9 showing how the IMCsystem can deal with wiring gaps.

Or they could demonstrate it on the R5 and have it run on the Express wires along Hastings.

[GORDOOM]

47 minutes ago, martin607 said:

I agree that any interim order would need to be carefully specified as a pilot to test out IMC in anticipation of the main replacement order to be placed in the middle of this decade. But given that the new NFI brochure advertises batteries capable of doing 22 miles (35km) off-wire for the XT40 and 15 miles on the XT60, they would be worthwhile demonstrators right now, e.g. tests on the R4 or using battery-trolleybus on the 9 showing how the IMCsystem can deal with wiring gaps.

The rumour we're discussing, though, is for an emergency order to replace the ExxLFRs now because they can't be used in summer without A/C anymore.

[8010]

2 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

The rumour we're discussing, though, is for an emergency order to replace the ExxLFRs now because they can't be used in summer without A/C anymore.

If they expedite the order (which I have doubts about) they need to add more units to the order because a one-to-one replacement isn’t going to meet the demand for the trolley network.

[martin607]

Although there has been a commitment for the last two years to renewing the trolleybus fleet, it is still good to see some concrete information with the replacement of the standard trolleybuses scheduled for 2027 and included in the report to the Mayors' Council Meeting. I'm not sure why they didn't also mention replacement of the articulated fleet, which presumably has to be by 2028 to meet the promise of an all air-conditioned fleet by that year.

TransLink to replace 188 trolley buses with new models in 2027 | Urbanized (dailyhive.com)

The main concern for trolleybus advocates now will be to ensure it is not just a one for one replacement but exploitation of the possibilities offered by battery-trolleybuses and conversions of some diesel routes that run substantially under the wires e.g. R4, R5 etc. as discussed before.   

[Community Shuttle]

8 hours ago, martin607 said:

Although there has been a commitment for the last two years to renewing the trolleybus fleet, it is still good to see some concrete information with the replacement of the standard trolleybuses scheduled for 2027 and included in the report to the Mayors' Council Meeting. I'm not sure why they didn't also mention replacement of the articulated fleet, which presumably has to be by 2028 to meet the promise of an all air-conditioned fleet by that year.

TransLink to replace 188 trolley buses with new models in 2027 | Urbanized (dailyhive.com)

The main concern for trolleybus advocates now will be to ensure it is not just a one for one replacement but exploitation of the possibilities offered by battery-trolleybuses and conversions of some diesel routes that run substantially under the wires e.g. R4, R5 etc. as discussed before.   

Where in the article did it specify standard trolleys? It just states a very ambiguous 188 units which could include both standard and articulated models.

[Pops1719]

7 hours ago, Community Shuttle said:

Where in the article did it specify standard trolleys? It just states a very ambiguous 188 units which could include both standard and articulated models.

2101-2199, 2201-2289 is 188 buses. Makes sense that they'd trade away the 40 footers first.

[Express691]

Peculiar detours incoming for this weekend start of service to 9pm on Sat March 26-Sun March 27

TLDR filming on Granville Street in downtown results in those routes going all over the place. Southbound is going to be a mess - They have the 10 heading down Howe, the 14 and 16 down Richards, and the 4/7 retaining their normal SB routes at least at the time of posting.

The 10 might result in XDE60 because instead of sending the bus straight onto the onramp, they send it to Howe via Davie where last I checked, there are no turn wires.

https://www.translink.ca/alerts

[Michael Marriott]

On 3/22/2022 at 11:08 PM, Express691 said:

Peculiar detours incoming for this weekend start of service to 9pm on Sat March 26-Sun March 27

TLDR filming on Granville Street in downtown results in those routes going all over the place. Southbound is going to be a mess - They have the 10 heading down Howe, the 14 and 16 down Richards, and the 4/7 retaining their normal SB routes at least at the time of posting.

The 10 might result in XDE60 because instead of sending the bus straight onto the onramp, they send it to Howe via Davie where last I checked, there are no turn wires.

https://www.translink.ca/alerts

There's also no turn wire from WB Robson to SB Granville for the posted 14/16 detour.  Overall, these detours make no sense, there is no reason the 10/14/16 can't be on Granville south from Pender like the 4 and 7.  Splitting service over multiple streets for a detour that is not necessary is terrible customer service; plus sending the 14/16 via Richards means they will be stuck behind 20's on layover.

[Tam Transit]

Can someone edit the 16 route page on the wiki about the PNE Special?

Quote

"Southbound specials start from the loop and head south on Renfrew Street, left onto E. 22nd Avenue, left onto Slocan Street, and again onto 29th Avenue to a bay set aside for the PNE specials."

It should be turn right onto 22nd, not left.

Also, for clarity, instead of

Quote

"and again onto 29th..."

Change it to "and left again onto 29th..."

Thanks!

 

I don't have editing access if I did I would have done it already lol.

[Express691]

Can't tell which alert entry specifically is causing it (no posted detour) but route 16 is diesel today.

[Michael Marriott]

2 hours ago, Express691 said:

Can't tell which alert entry specifically is causing it (no posted detour) but route 16 is diesel today.

There is ongoing reconstruction of Renfrew St from McGill to 1st Ave.  According to alerts, the NB stops at Grant and Charles that have been closed for construction will reopen on Monday; so it's likely this weekend there are lane changes to adjust for the end of construction, and the wire crew will be moving the overhead for this.

[ThomasW97]

7 hours ago, Express691 said:

Can't tell which alert entry specifically is causing it (no posted detour) but route 16 is diesel today.

There is roadwork at renfrew and 1st ave today 

[Express691]

UBC detours for route 14 are extended through July 3.

[Michael Marriott]

On Saturday there were wires down at Cordova and Carrall that resulted in buses being rerouted to Hastings for most of the afternoon.  When the overhead was put back up, the wire crew took out some redundant wire.  The overhead coming from WB Powell onto SB Carrall is now tied off just south of the turn, and there is no longer SB wire on Carrall on the block from Powell to Cordova.  And, the EB wire on Corodva no longer has the crossing for the SB Carrall wire.

[Transit Guy]

I’m no electrician or wire expert, but is it possible for the old, but still working wires to be repurposed/refurbished and used elsewhere on the trolley network? I only ask because $1 million+ per km of copper wire (probably higher now) isn’t cheap for TransLink.

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, Transit Guy said:

I’m no electrician or wire expert, but is it possible for the old, but still working wires to be repurposed/refurbished and used elsewhere on the trolley network? I only ask because $1 million+ per km of copper wire (probably higher now) isn’t cheap for TransLink.

That’s the all in averaged cost including labour, transformer substations, poles etc.

the actual cost of a spool of wire is a pittance of that.