TTC Orion VII Retirement Tracker

[bus_7246]

1562 has been off the road for quite some time. It has expired MTO stickers. It looks like it suffered from a collision at the rear curb side, with a part of the bumper, and the roadside light cluster missing 

[MRD10]

4 hours ago, 81-717 said:

What's the source of this info? What about the Novas? They've become as common now as the VIIs were a decade ago.

2 hours ago, New Flyer said:

I’m sure they will preserve a Nova eventually. What would make sense is one unit from 3100-3369 and one from 7000-7133. 

Regardless, what is the status of 8079 the other unit to be preserved?

Also can anyone confirm 8063’s status?

The source is the same report that outlined which Orions were to be kept for historical purposes. In the report, the TTC mentions that storing additional buses that have retired from revenue service is becoming a challenge. And to be frank, the Novas aren't as historically relevant to the TTC.

[Kumiko Oumae]

38 minutes ago, MRD10 said:

The source is the same report that outlined which Orions were to be kept for historical purposes. In the report, the TTC mentions that storing additional buses that have retired from revenue service is becoming a challenge. And to be frank, the Novas aren't as historically relevant to the TTC.

They are close to be relevant though, but seeing the fact the LFS buses were built in the same plant that opened 45 years ago by General Motors in Quebec where the five remaining fishbowl orders (542 buses) were made between 1979 and 1983 as well as the Classic orders in 1987; but ownership changed hands in the middle of the delivery. The plant, acquired by Nova Quintech in 1993, would not see a mass bus order until 2013, exactly 26 years later when the TTC acquired 26 LFS artics (excluding a single 1st gen LFS demo acquired in 1998).

The RTS WFDs that the TTC got was a different story. These were built in Roswell (the former TMC plant) instead of Ste. Eustache after the Classic production ended in 1997.

[Bus_Medic]

1 hour ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

They are close to be relevant though, but seeing the fact the LFS buses were built in the same plant that opened 45 years ago by General Motors in Quebec where the five remaining fishbowl orders (542 buses) were made between 1979 and 1983 as well as the Classic orders in 1987; but ownership changed hands in the middle of the delivery. The plant, acquired by Nova Quintech in 1993, would not see a mass bus order until 2013, exactly 26 years later when the TTC acquired 26 LFS artics (excluding a single 1st gen LFS demo acquired in 1998).

The RTS WFDs that the TTC got was a different story. These were built in Roswell (the former TMC plant) instead of Ste. Eustache after the Classic production ended in 1997.

Nobody cares.

[bus_7246]

1 hour ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

They are close to be relevant though, but seeing the fact the LFS buses were built in the same plant that opened 45 years ago by General Motors in Quebec where the five remaining fishbowl orders (542 buses) were made between 1979 and 1983 as well as the Classic orders in 1987; but ownership changed hands in the middle of the delivery. The plant, acquired by Nova Quintech in 1993, would not see a mass bus order until 2013, exactly 26 years later when the TTC acquired 26 LFS artics (excluding a single 1st gen LFS demo acquired in 1998).

The RTS WFDs that the TTC got was a different story. These were built in Roswell (the former TMC plant) instead of Ste. Eustache after the Classic production ended in 1997.

Really and truly, the significance counts when the idea is thought of at that time of retirement. Not so much over a decade after the retirement, nor the locations of where the buses were manufactured at. Pipe dreams are valuable when you put your money where your mouth is 

[MRD10]

2 hours ago, Kumiko Oumae said:

They are close to be relevant though...

The case made with the Orions was that they were specifically Ontario manufactured, by a now defunct company. On the other hand, Novabus has flooded the US and Canadian markets. No point in preserving a vehicle if you can see it on every street. But for Orions, not so much anymore. 

[fierypanther]

48 minutes ago, MRD10 said:

The case made with the Orions was that they were specifically Ontario manufactured, by a now defunct company. On the other hand, Novabus has flooded the US and Canadian markets. No point in preserving a vehicle if you can see it on every street. But for Orions, not so much anymore. 

Even though I hate the Novas I'd like to see them preserve one

[kitortransit]

9 minutes ago, fierypanther said:

Even though I hate the Novas I'd like to see them preserve one

9000 (LFS Artic) and 8400 (LFS) would be the ones they should preserve.

Finn

[T3G]

10 hours ago, MRD10 said:

The source is the same report that outlined which Orions were to be kept for historical purposes. In the report, the TTC mentions that storing additional buses that have retired from revenue service is becoming a challenge. And to be frank, the Novas aren't as historically relevant to the TTC.

It is hard to imagine how exactly 1 GM and 2 Orions are enough to max out the available storage capacity. If that is remotely true, how do they plan to ever account for any fleet expansion ever again?

I don't count the various derelict GMs lying around Hillcrest that may or may not get fixed up in some unknown future.

10 hours ago, MRD10 said:

And to be frank, the Novas aren't as historically relevant to the TTC.

 

6 hours ago, MRD10 said:

No point in preserving a vehicle if you can see it on every street.

People said the same thing about the Orion VIIs in 2015. Give it another decade.

  

On 8/10/2024 at 9:17 PM, New Flyer said:

On another note, 8114 has been retired.

What exactly are you basing this information off of?

  

17 hours ago, New Flyer said:

I’m sure that there’s a good possibility.

Please don't engage in idle speculation, if you have no concrete information.

[New Flyer]

6 hours ago, T3G said:

What exactly are you basing this information off of?

Please don't engage in idle speculation, if you have no concrete information.

I’m basing this information off the fact that the unit has been parked behind Queensway for almost 2 weeks. I visibly saw the unit parked there and confirmed the tracker is correct. I don’t base my information solely off of tracker sightings. Of course, there’s a chance it will return, like 8032 and 8067 did a year-ish ago. 

[2044]

1 hour ago, New Flyer said:

Of course, there’s a chance it will return, like 8032 and 8067 did a year-ish ago. 

Don’t post things as fact if you don’t know for sure then.

[kewl]

imo I'd rather see a xcelsior preserved then a nova. for historical purposes I believe there would be more value in preserving the ttc's first &/or last hybrid bus. 

[Toro]

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to comprehend why ttc wants to preserve a Orion vii. They literally outnumber every bus we've ever had (all viis), they were produced in our neighboring city of missisauga which meant that they were basically produces in our backyard and weren't foreign (unlike novas and flyers, although being Canadian still come from far) and why are the same people who oppose the vii preservation the same ones who love 2252 so much? It's  either you support the preservation of multiple buses or none at all. Makes no sense having a "historical bus fleet" that consists of 1 bus.

 

 

[Toro]

^ adding to what I said earlier the same goes with 1000. It deserves to be preserved as it's not only TTCs but Ontarios first ever HEV bus. No it shouldn't be preserved cause og hybrids aren't reliable? Good then cry about it. Hopefully TTC has a change of mind since they seem to care about the environment so much and recently started despising diesels.

[Kelvin3157]

16 minutes ago, Toro said:

^ adding to what I said earlier the same goes with 1000. It deserves to be preserved as it's not only TTCs but Ontarios first ever HEV bus.

Actually, TTC had tested a Orion VII HEV demonstrator back in 2001 that much so predates 1000. 

[T3G]

17 hours ago, kewl said:

imo I'd rather see a xcelsior preserved then a nova. for historical purposes I believe there would be more value in preserving the ttc's first &/or last hybrid bus. 

In an ideal world there would be one of everything that has ever run saved. But when you have to pick and choose, right now there is a far more compelling historical argument for the importance of a Nova than an Xcelsior. If the Xcelsiors become as widespread as Orion VIIs or Novas, the equation might change.

N.B: I don't like Novas or Xcelsiors, so this argument is presented from an emotionally disconnected perspective.

[Elijah bey]

What's the status with the remaining OG Diesel's that are retired. Witch is going to be kept?

[New Flyer]

2 hours ago, Elijah bey said:

What's the status with the remaining OG Diesel's that are retired. Witch is going to be kept?

They're all parked at North Queen with the exception of 8025 and 8091

[2044]

5 hours ago, Elijah bey said:

What's the status with the remaining OG Diesel's that are retired. Witch is going to be kept?

How many times are you guys going to ask the same question? The TTC has already given you an answer. They’re not going to bother giving a status update every week. If anything changes, you’ll find out.

[bus_7246]

1081 & 1128 have been retired. In queue for decommissioning 

[New Flyer]

1 minute ago, bus_7246 said:

1081 & 1128 have been retired. In queue for decommissioning 

Wow they really are picking up the pace with these retirements. The rest might be gone by the end of September at this rate.

[5242]

On 8/9/2024 at 4:26 AM, Elijah bey said:

Can someone make a list on the 7900's 8000's and their final routes.

Working on one. I can’t provide some because the trackers are broken for some 79xx & 80xx units.

[Orion_II]

4 hours ago, New Flyer said:

Wow they really are picking up the pace with these retirements. The rest might be gone by the end of September at this rate.

How many are left now? Last number I remember is 60, but even without knowing an exact number I know its bad. I went to Pioneer Village the other day, and on the 35/935 there were a bunch of NG Hybrids. Half a year ago those routes were *exclusively* OG hybrid routes. I've even seen it on the 45 Kipling; OG Hybrids - while not dominating - used to be a pretty common sight. I'd say about 60% of the time it was a XDE40, 25% was an OG hybrid, and 15% was an NG hybrid.

[New Flyer]

8 hours ago, Orion_II said:

How many are left now? Last number I remember is 60, but even without knowing an exact number I know its bad. I went to Pioneer Village the other day, and on the 35/935 there were a bunch of NG Hybrids. Half a year ago those routes were *exclusively* OG hybrid routes. I've even seen it on the 45 Kipling; OG Hybrids - while not dominating - used to be a pretty common sight. I'd say about 60% of the time it was a XDE40, 25% was an OG hybrid, and 15% was an NG hybrid.

I think between 30 and 40 are remaining. Which is still pretty good, because the OG HEVs are going only one or two at a time, whereas the diesels went out in bunches of 5 or 6 at a time.

10 hours ago, 5242 said:

Working on one. I can’t provide some because the trackers are broken for some 79xx & 80xx units.

Most of the 80xx have trackers broken. 7913 7941 and 7952 also have broken trackers.

[5242]

80xx last day of service dates, 79xx units coming soon.

 

8000 - 12/14/2022 on 900

8001 - 12/11/2022 on 900

8002 - 12/15/2022 on 300

8003 - 1/6/2023 on 900

8004 - 12/15/2022 on 300

8005 - Broken Tracker, Last spotted December 2022

8006 - Broken Tracker, Last spotted December 2022

8007 - 3/3/2023 on 900

8008 - Early May 2023

8009 - 5/4/2023 on 900 (last Airport OG to retire)

8010 - 1/27/2023 on 900

8011 - Broken Tracker, Last Spotted 4/26/2023 on 900

8012 - 10/12/2023 on 123

8013 - 10/12/2023 on 110

8014 - Last seen 7/4/2024 on 73

8015 - 4/5/2024 on 46

8016 - 6/27/2023 on 37

8017 - Last seen 7/5/2024 on 73

8018 - 4/5/2024 on 73

8019 - 7/26/2024 on 37

8020 - 7/23/2023 on 123

8021 - 8/26/2023 on 76

8022 - 1/24/2024 on 50

8023 - 12/27/2023 on 944

8024 - 5/10/2024 on 37

8025 - Last seen 7/12/2024 on 501

8026 - 10/6/2023 on 46

8027 - 7/12/2024 on 123 (collision damage)

8028 - 6/23/2023 on 15

8029 - 7/26/2024 on 46

8030 - 7/27/2024 on Line 1 Shuttle

8031 - 4/5/2024 on 110

8032 - Broken Tracker

8033 - 1/24/2024 on 512

8034 - Broken Tracker

8035 - Broken Tracker

8036 - 5/10/2024 on 123

8037 - 2/2/2024 on 111

8038 - 7/12/2023 on 71

8039 - 2/17/2024 on 189

8040 - 7/18/2023 on 123

8041 - 7/26/2024 on 110

8042 - Broken Tracker

8043 - 2/2/2024 on 944

8044 - 2/3/2024 on 48

8045 - 5/6/2021 on 73 (electrical fire)

8046 - 10/30/2023 on 26

8047 - 3/5/2024 on 123

8048 - Broken Tracker

8049 - 4/6/2024 on 501

8050 - 4/18/2024 on 501

8051 - Unknown

8052 - 10/30/2023 on 46

8053 - Last seen 7/19/2024 on 44

8054 - 4/5/2024 on 46

8055 - 1/8/2024 on 123

8056 - 1/4/2024 on 40 (collision damage)

8057 - 6/8/2023 on 123

8058 - 5/4/2020 on 66 (collision damage)

8059 - 3/4/2024 on 48

8060 - Last seen 7/9/2024 on 501

8061 - Broken Tracker (Island Bus)

8062 - 2/17/2024 on 512

8063 - 7/26/2024 on 111

8064 - 10/31/2023 on 73

8065 - 1/25/2021 on 945 (Island Bus from February 2021 - January 13, 2024)

8066 - 1/2/2024 on 40

8067 - Last seen 7/9/2024 on 127

8068 - 2/6/2024 on 52

8069 - 2/17/2024 on 111

8070 - 2/3/2024 on 40

8071 - Broken Tracker

8072 - Unknown

8073 - 6/22/2024 on 110

8074 - 5/10/2024 on 937

8075 - 2/15/2024 on 80

8076 - Last seen 7/23/2024 on 123

8077 - 2/2/2024 on 937

8078 - 5/11/2024 on 112

8079 - 7/26/2024 on 44

8080 - 2/17/2024 on 40

8081 - Broken Tracker

8082 - 7/15/2024 on 123

8083 - 5/10/2024 on 501

8084 - Broken Tracker

8085 - Broken Tracker

8086 - 7/26/2024 on 46

8087 - 10/15/2023 on 73

8088 - Broken Tracker

8089 - 1/24/2024 on 48

8090 - 3/5/2024 on 49

8091 - Broken Tracker

8092 - 5/31/2024 on 110

8093 - 12/11/2023 on 944

8094 - Broken Tracker

8095 - 11/13/2019 on 37 (collision at Queensway Garage with 8600)

8096 - 1/19/2024 on 50

8097 - Broken Tracker

8098 - 7/27/2024 on 301 (last unit to retire)

8099 - 7/26/2024 on 112