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TTC Orion VII Retirement Tracker

Mar_AC_23
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Ed T.

Ed T.

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, T3G said:

The reason Halton rejected it is because their area of interest is rail. What would the point of accepting one be, if it's going to fall by the wayside and be scrapped in 30 years? 

7423 was not a TTC project, and as noble as that project vision was it would be fairly lofty to describe that as preservation.

HCRR was founded with the last ex-TRC car, as I understand it (was not there in person) and picked up Witts and PCCs as those cars were retired. And I bet there was a lot of surplus track and overhead material from various streetcar abandonments. And they kept up with subways, including G and M cars. As well as other radial or interurban cars.

That's fine for the first half (35 years) of their history.

But I wonder, will they ever keep and run a Flexity? Even if it still has a trolley pole? How about the various flavours of Metrolinx LRTs? And how about when GO becomes electric, or better yet MU electric.

From a museum perspective, there's been a lot more development and variety in buses in the GTA, compared to rail. I'm not in the "a PCC is a PCC" club (and in fact not in the "New Look GM is a New Look GM" club either), but at this point, a TTC Flexity is a TTC Flexity. And the Flexities are unchanged over 12 years, which saw the PCC fleet go from A1 (or was it PCC1 at the start?) to A5. Air electric, all electric, MU.

I certainly agree with the point that if they are not going to actively preserve the buses at least, and preferably operate them too, then there's no point in putting buses there.

Of course a bigger issue might be a limited volunteer base while the collection keeps growing (slowly) while the existing fleet needs service and maintenance (lots).

 

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81-717

81-717

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On 7/14/2024 at 6:22 AM, T3G said:

Who cares if something is a one of a kind model or if there's other PCCs that survive? You asked for an example of equipment that was scrapped, I gave you 3. Stop moving the goalposts.

I'm calling shenanigans on your assertion that a PCC is a PCC, too. There is as much visual similarity between an A1 and A12 as there is between an M1 and an H5, and to the general public, all M1-T1 subway cars AND all PCCs are interchangeable. By the parameters of your argument you should therefore be satisfied that something very like an H5 (two of them, in fact!) survives in a museum and you should quit your whinging, right?

No, unfortunately an M1 is most certainly no H5/6 or even H1–4. The H1–4s, while mechanically very similar, have an important visual difference, and the H5/6 were very different mechanically. So the fact that the M1s were saved is "so close, yet so far", neither here nor there.🙄 My only consolation is that 5707 still exists, and that someone saved that end cap off of an H4 (assuming, of course, they still have it). And the T1s are not interchangeable with the M/H cars in any way except the exterior design, in most other ways they're the opposite and arguably have more in common with TRs. Also I never moved the goalposts, I specifically said "bonus points if it doesn't exist anywhere else". So regarding the PCCs, are there any versions that have gone extinct, and don't have much in common with the multitude that exist across the continent?

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T3G

T3G

Posted
Posted
On 7/14/2024 at 10:14 AM, Ed T. said:

HCRR was founded with the last ex-TRC car, as I understand it (was not there in person) and picked up Witts and PCCs as those cars were retired. And I bet there was a lot of surplus track and overhead material from various streetcar abandonments. And they kept up with subways, including G and M cars. As well as other radial or interurban cars.

That's fine for the first half (35 years) of their history.

But I wonder, will they ever keep and run a Flexity? Even if it still has a trolley pole? How about the various flavours of Metrolinx LRTs? And how about when GO becomes electric, or better yet MU electric.

From a museum perspective, there's been a lot more development and variety in buses in the GTA, compared to rail. I'm not in the "a PCC is a PCC" club (and in fact not in the "New Look GM is a New Look GM" club either), but at this point, a TTC Flexity is a TTC Flexity. And the Flexities are unchanged over 12 years, which saw the PCC fleet go from A1 (or was it PCC1 at the start?) to A5. Air electric, all electric, MU.

I certainly agree with the point that if they are not going to actively preserve the buses at least, and preferably operate them too, then there's no point in putting buses there.

Of course a bigger issue might be a limited volunteer base while the collection keeps growing (slowly) while the existing fleet needs service and maintenance (lots).

 

I have the utmost respect for HCRR and what they do, but I feel in some ways that they have become victims of their own success. The fact that they have to rely on volunteer donations and labour, and don't have access to TTC facilities for maintenance and storage works against them. I think without a severe change in scope and funding sources the thought of them saving anything current expect for maybe a lone legacy Flexity would be a non starter.

It would be helpful if there was a city owned and operated museum and Halton just picked up the 'slack', as it is in so many European cities and New York. If Halton are the only ones who are saving anything, inevitably someone is going to be disappointed. 

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Elijah bey

Elijah bey

Posted
Posted

8014, 8027, 8035, 8060, 8067, 8082 are at North queen. 

1 minute ago, Elijah bey said:

8014, 8027, 8035, 8060, 8067, 8082 are at North queen. 

Which leaves 8019, 8025, 8029-8030, 8034, 8041 8053, 8063, 8072, 8076, 8079, 8086, 8091, 8097-8099 16 Active Buses Left 

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kewl

kewl

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Mar_AC_23 said:

8091 has been pulled from service and is now retired. They decided to not keep this one. Another unit will replace it.

Omg I was on that 3 days ago. The A.C was scuffed sounding so I'm not surprised but it's still sad R.I.P.

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Mar_AC_23

Mar_AC_23

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Posted
3 minutes ago, raptorjays said:

So in this rate, all the ORION Vll diesel will be retired by the end of the summer, right? 

Very possible but we'll see 

6 hours ago, Doggosareamazing said:

8079 is still a go for preserving? 

So far, yes

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leylandvictory2

leylandvictory2

Posted
Posted
On 7/14/2024 at 4:31 PM, ORION said:

All the buses that were parked out front at HCRR were scrapped. Nothing left outside bus wise.

i remember seeing the front end of a flyers trolley has been preserved.

 

As for HCRR, i really appreciate the work and effort done by the volunteer to keep the place runing as it is right now.  it is not easy.  for the public perspective, there is not much appeal to visit the place more than once.  I have been there once.  hopefully there will be more displays to entice public to revisit this place 

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