What’s Next for Winnipeg Transit?

[SirAndrew710]

The TMP could be getting its first test coming up. The city is looking at expanding service to Bridgwater Trails under the spine-and-feeder system approved as part of the TMP but already implemented in that part of the city with Phase 2. The TMP proposes that area be served by extensions to Routes 671 and 672 - could this proposal mark the first implementation of the TMP since its approval? https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ViewPdf.asp?SectionId=621431&isMobile=yes

[Isaac Williams]

I've heard that the Winnipeg Railway Museum will be shutting down on December 31st, because "VIA is taking the lease away and giving it to the RT line". Presumably, this is part of the Transit Master Plan, where Union Station will be a major hub, where A, C and D will go. I guess that's a good sign that this part of the TMP may go as planned (though I do hope the Railway Museum can find a new home).

Now, I can't say 100% for sure that this is true, as I did hear it from another source, but I feel reasonably confident that it is.

[ConnorsCompShow]

16 hours ago, Isaac Williams said:

I've heard that the Winnipeg Railway Museum will be shutting down on December 31st, because "VIA is taking the lease away and giving it to the RT line". Presumably, this is part of the Transit Master Plan, where Union Station will be a major hub, where A, C and D will go. I guess that's a good sign that this part of the TMP may go as planned (though I do hope the Railway Museum can find a new home).

Now, I can't say 100% for sure that this is true, as I did hear it from another source, but I feel reasonably confident that it is.

It's official https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/winnipeg-railway-museum-closing-at-end-of-december-1.5660148

[jhood135]

Well, it's budget time again! With some exciting new capital investments in Transit now with the long-awaited support of the Province, maybe this year will be different?

It won't, by the look of it. The Primary Transit Network infrastructure (bus loops, new stops and shelters, improved signage, etc) necessary to implement the Master Plan won't get funding until 2025. It will be a 2-year project by the look of it. Same goes for the Design for Downtown Rapid Transit (converting Union Station) - that won't be funded until 2025 and will also be a two-year project. So buses won't be running through the station until 2030 at the extreme earliest, based on this budget. I also am uncertain how they will be able to implement the Master Plan without new infrastructure, so that might take until 2025-2026 as well. This is all incredibly disappointing, especially since the new route network will be so much more cost-effective in the long-term. There seems to be little sense of urgency with this budget.

Zero-Emissions Buses gets funding starting next year, all the way up to 2027. We will continue to get at least 15 diesel buses a year + ZEB's until around 2025-2026, when after that, all new buses will be Zero-Emissions. That's good news, and hopefully that gets people excited about using transit again. The new garage will also get funding starting next year, as well as bringing Transit Plus services 30% in-house.

I have no idea how service levels will be impacted. I heard through the media there will be cuts, but there's nothing in the current available documentation. IRPW has a budget meeting on Sunday, so I'm sure it's only a matter of days until we get details into that. Delegations will be speaking, and the budget is usually slightly amended for this. But Transit having cost-overruns from Covid revenue loss is a big factor into all of this, which is understandable. The Province's contributions are still frozen at 2016 levels past 2025, which is also suffocating Transit. Let's see what happens.

[SirAndrew710]

Looking at the agenda for the aforementioned IRPW meeting, I see that a lot of TMP-related stuff will be discussed. Fortunately, neither those documents nor the draft budget say anything about service cuts.

[SirAndrew710]

Bumping this thread because WT unveiled a revised short-term TMP today. It appears to be mostly similar to the proposal from three years ago, but some changes were made. The biggest was the replacement of the non-BLUE rapid routes with "frequent express routes," as well as to route numbering in general (with frequent/frequent express and direct routes getting numbers prefixed with "F," "FX" or "D" instead of letters). Some other routes were changed to greater resemble existing routes. The map can be found here.

[ConnorsCompShow]

I think this is actually a lot more palatable for current-day users. For the most part the numbering is more sensible to the areas users are already familiar with (22 in the west, 48 in the northeast, 57 in the southeast), and I think the FX naming is catchy and a great way to make otherwise boring on-street diamond lanes seem just a little exciting.

Mount Royal getting slapped on as a BLUE stop would be fantastic, because as much as it'd be nice for the current-day R22 to observe it, I've mentioned in the past that that's probably going to lead to "stop creep", ie "what about Deer Lodge Centre? what about <y>?".

But holy crap, future R74 might as well be the new R77 with how far up they've punted it past Red River College. Punting it to RRC itself was a bit ballsy though a bet I'd say would be likely to pay off, but all the way up Keewatin/Dr. Jose Rizal is ballsy times 10. And speaking of, it'd be so nice if D14 made the short extra trek to Polo Park rather than the Erin/Wall soft terminal currently depicted. That would actually make me say good riddance to R77 and make it far more palatable for its east end users who would otherwise have to go out of their way to find and fetch an FX4.

[SirAndrew710]

58 minutes ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

For the most part the numbering is more sensible to the areas users are already familiar with (22 in the west, 48 in the northeast, 57 in the southeast)

Not to mention that the TMP 22 and 48 significantly overlap with the routes that currently bear those numbers. Though the overlap between the current and TMP versions of the 57 (and 43) are more limited.

1 hour ago, ConnorsCompShow said:

it'd be so nice if D14 made the short extra trek to Polo Park rather than the Erin/Wall soft terminal currently depicted.

That, or go all the way to Unicity, swallowing up the 22. Its sister route, the D15, will go there.

[Viafreak]

I like some of the new routings coming from the northeast quadrant. The 11 Glenway being replaced with frequent service to U of M via Downtown is a great idea. Currently you need to change buses either at Main and James or William to reach the U of M. Also the FX4 going from the city limits (edge of the 85's route) to Polo Park via Downtown is also a great routing. Not sure about FX3 or 551 as the routings are a bit squirrelly.

In addition to that, looks like Seel will be even a bigger hub than it is currently as the current 78 is being split into the 680 (Polo to Seel) and 679 (Seel to UofM) as well the current 71 is being combined with the current 29 south of Portage to form the new 28.

[wt_enthusiast_photos]

All "FX" Routes will have Artics once we have enough. 

[MMP15]

Before the upcoming open houses, here's a list of all the routes, along with changes that I've been able to find comparing the conceptual Short Term Plan to the Primary Transit Network Map. There’s quite a few (besides naming/numbering). Let me know what you think, or if I missed any. I’ll save my comments for a different post.

 

Primary Network Changes

 

BLUE - Peak: 4-10 min between busses

 

• Route BLUE (formerly “A”/“D”)
  • Downtown routing uses Portage instead of Graham.
  • Less stops in St Norbert.

 

Frequent Express - Peak: 5-15 min between busses

 

• FX2 (formerly “B”)
  • Ends at Garden City via Leila instead of Fernbank.
  • Summer service to Bird’s Hill moves to D11.

 

• FX3 (formerly “C”)
  • Stay on Regent Ave E until Redonda. Previously went up to Kildare.

 

• FX4 (formerly “N”) - Upgraded from frequent to frequent express.
  • Downtown routing uses Portage instead of Graham.
  • Extended to Polo Park.

 

Frequent - Peak: 10-15 min between busses

 

• F5 (formerly “I”) - No changes.

 

• F6 (formerly “E”)
  • Extended to Southall loop.
  • Uses Dufferin instead of Selkirk.

 

• F7 (formerly “G”)
  • Downtown routing uses Portage instead of Graham.
  • Extended to Broadway.

 

• F8 (formerly “F”)
  • Routing through Smartpark, instead of bypassing along Chancellor Matheson.

 

• F9 (formerly “M”) - No changes.

 

Direct - Peak: 10-15 min between busses

 

• D10 (formerly “W”)
  • Ends earlier at Waterford Green Common.
  • Rothesay/Edison service moved to McLeod/Henderson, reducing number of turns.

 

• D11 (formerly “H”)
  • Ends slightly earlier at Southall Loop instead of Kildonan Park.
  • Adds Bird’s Hill summer service.

 

• D12 (formerly “L”)
  • Ends slightly earlier at the Forks.
  • Downtown routing uses Ellice instead of Graham.

 

• D13 (formerly “K”)
  • Ends slightly earlier at the Forks.
  • Downtown routing uses Ellice instead of Graham.

 

• D14 (formerly “T”)
  • Extended to Erin/Wall.
  • Uses Holden instead of Lagimodiere.

 

• D15 (formerly “Q”)
  • Uses Autumnwood/De Bourmont instead of Drake.
  • Extended to Lakewood & Beaverhill roundabout.
  • Proposed route to be extended to Sage Creek, once funded.

 

• D16 (formerly “J”)
  • Revised routing near HSC.
  • “J” was separated into two routes. D16 is the northern portion up to at City Hall - Concert Hall. D18 is the southern portion.

 

• D17 (formerly “U”)
  • Uses Annabella/Higgins instead of remaining on Sutherland.

 

• D18 (formerly “J”)
  • “J” was separated into two routes. D18 is the southern portion, up to City Hall - Concert Hall. D16 is the northern portion.

 

• D19 (formerly “R”) - No changes.

 

Feeder Network

 

Connector Routes - Peak: 15-30 min between busses

 

• 22 (formerly 23) - No changes.
• 28 (formerly 30)
  • Extended/Revised routing near Garden City.
  • Extended from Maryland/Wolseley to Seel Station. Likely absorbs the former 636.
• 31 (formerly 33)
  • Extended to Fernbank.
  • Extended to the Forks via Euclid/Waterfront, instead of terminating at City Hall.
• 37 (formerly 31)
  • East terminal at Main modified.
• 38 (formerly 40)
  • Uses Johnson/Watt instead of Henderson.
• 39 (formerly 32)
  • East terminal at Main modified.
  • Uses Fife instead of Inkster.
  • West terminal changed from near Garden City to Waterford Green Common.
• 43 (formerly 20)
  • Revised routing to add service to City Hall - Concert Hall.
  • East terminal changed from McLeod & Henderson to McLeod & Gateway.
• 48 (formerly 45)
  • Uses Madeline instead of Hoka.
  • From Edmond Gale, goes up to Kildare then to Redonda Loop.
• 57 (formerly “S”) - Downgraded to connector from direct.
  • Extended to Patterson Loop, now services Alpine/Niakwa.
• 70 (formerly 60) - No changes.
• 74
  • Jogs from Waverley through Bridgewater, service moved from Scurfield.
  • Extended from RRC to Waterford Green Common (hence D10 ending earlier).

 

Community Routes - 30-60 min between busses

 

2XX Routes

 

• 220
  • Combines 234/235 north of Grace Hospital.
  • Western terminal extended to St. Charles.
• 223
  • Replaces 235 south of Grace Hospital, continues down Charleswood bridge to replace 699.
• 224 (combines former 232 and 233)
  • Northern terminal shortened to RRC. (Limited span 881 takes care of North of RRC)

 

3XX Routes

 

• 330 (formerly 333) - No changes.
• 332
  • Replaces South portion of 331.
• 334 - NEW
  • Garden City Shopping Center to Waterford Green Common via Inkster.
• 336
  • Combines former 331 (north portion) and 332.

 

4XX Routes

 

• 440 (formerly 431/433)
  • Western terminal extended to Walmart.
  • Northern/Eastern terminal is Plessis/Kildonan Meadow.
• 441 (formerly 443)
  • Multiple minor revisions.
• 442 (combines former 432 and 434)
  • Uses Henderson between former 432 and 434.
  • Multiple minor revisions
• 444 (formerly 431/433)
  • Follows general 431 routing then goes down Plessis to Pandora to replace 433.
  • Eastern terminal extended to near Redonda & Gunn.
• 446 (formerly 435)
  • Minor revisions near Western Terminal.

 

5XX Routes

 

• 550 (formerly 530)
  • Larger loop portion at Southern end (unclear if one-way or two-way).
• 551 (formerly 531, also replaces part of 536)
  • (A giant mess of zig-zags, just as bad as the current 95 Polo Park). North end of Watt to Sage Creek via Windsor Park, Southdale, Island Lakes and Bonavista.
• 552 (replaces parts of 532, 533, 537)
  • Big loop between St. Annes and Dakota (unclear if one-way or two-way).
• 554 (formerly 538)
  • Linear instead of one-way loop at south end. Continues along Burland to Creek Bend Terminal.
• 556 (replaces parts of 534, 537)
  • Replaces 537 west of St. Vital Center (identical routing).
  • Services St. Vital Center terminal, but not St. Mary’s & Bishop Grandin.
  • Replaces 534 east of St. Vital Center. Adds jog up to Shamrock en route to Sage Creek.
• 558 (replaces parts of 531, 532, 535, 536, 537)
  • Goes from St. Vital Center to Southland Park via South St. Vital, Royalwood and Southdale/Windsor Park.

 

6XX Routes

 

• 636 - DELETED.
  • Use 28/680 instead.
• 641
  • “Reverted” to current in-service routing. (Terminal will remain at Beaumont.)
• 642 - No changes.
• 649
  • West terminal extended to Fort Whyte.
  • East terminal extended from Pembina & Chevrier to Seel Station via Pembina/Jubilee/SWRT.
• 650
  • “Reverted” to current in-service routing. (Services Wilson St)
• 662
  • “Reverted” to current in-service routing. (Services Baylor/Killarney/Kirkbridge)
• 664 (formerly 662_north)
  • Remains on Taylor, instead of Nathaniel/Grant/Poseidon.
  • Services Swindon Loop.
  • Routing revised at Outlet Collection terminal.
• 671
  • “Reverted” to current in-service routing. (Terminal Bridge Lake & Bison)
• 672
  • “Reverted” to current in-service routing. (Terminal Castlebrook & Landover)
• 676 - No change.
• 677
  • Routing revised at Outlet Collection terminal.
  • “Reintroduces” current rush hour extension.
• 678 - NEW
  • Proposed route to replace 693, once funded. Follows Northern part of current routing, then extends through Bridgwater to Bison/Skyline/Eaglewood.
• 679/680 (formerly 78)
  • Route 78 will be split into two community routes. 679 covers U of M to Seel Station, while 680 covers Seel Station to Polo Park.
• 690 - (Limited Span) - No changes.
• 691 - (Limited Span)
  • “Reintroduced”, follows current in-service routing.
• 693 - (Limited Span) - No changes.
• 694 - (Limited Span)
  • “Reintroduced”, follows current in-service routing.
• 91 (formerly 691) - No changes.

 

Limited Span 8XX Routes

 

• 833 - NEW
  • Not sure why this is needed. Largely replaces part of D17.
• 881 - NEW
  • RRC to Meridian & Discovery.
  • 881 and 336 replace ORT.
• 883 - NEW
  • Services Grace Hospital to Saskatchewan Ave Loop.
• 885 - NEW
  • Follows routing similar to the current 98, but Western Terminal is scaled back to Roblin & Windmill instead of Unicity.
• 886 - NEW
  • Serves Nairn-Watt to Dugald Road. Likely to be interlined with 887.
• 887 - NEW
  • Services Nairn-Watt to St. Boniface industrial (Dugald plus two loops). Likely to be interlined with 886.
• 888 (formerly 133)
  • Services St Joseph in both directions, instead of Tache (north of Provencher).
  • Southern Terminal extended to Walmer & Pinedale.
• 889 (formerly 236) - No changes.
• 895 - NEW
  • Serves Riverview to Jubilee Station. Follows routing similar to the current 95.

 

On-Request Transit Changes

 

Added

• South St. Vital
• St. Boniface (similar to current 110 on-request zone)

Removed

• Transcona/Kildonan Meadows
• Waterford Green

Modified

• Riverview and Wildwood Zones combined (adds Lord Robert)
• Murray Park/Strauss Drive and Westwood zones combined (adds Booth and Silver Heights)

Edited February 26 by MMP15
Incorporates missed changed, as pointed out by Isaac Williams and SirAndrew710. Thanks!

[Isaac Williams]

1 hour ago, MMP15 said:

Limited Span 8XX Routes

 

• 833 - NEW
  • Not sure why this is needed. Largely replaces part of D17.
• 881 - NEW
  • RRC to Meridian & Discovery.
  • 881 and 336 replace ORT.
• 886 - NEW
  • Serves Nairn-Watt to Dugald Road. Likely to be interlined with 887.
• 887 - NEW
  • Services Nairn-Watt to St. Boniface industrial (Dugald plus two loops). Likely to be interlined with 886.
• 889 (formerly 236) - No changes.

There's a Route 895, which follows the current Route 95 from Riverview to Cockburn, before continuing to Jubilee Station.

[SirAndrew710]

Here's a few others that you missed:

17 hours ago, MMP15 said:

• D15 (formerly “Q”)
  • Uses Autumnwood/De Bourmont instead of Drake.
  • Extended to Lakewood & Beaverhill roundabout.

It will be further extended to Sage Creek once funded.

17 hours ago, MMP15 said:

Limited Span 8XX Routes

• Route 883: Grace Hospital to Saskatchewan Loop, via Sturgeon Road and Murray Park.
• Route 885: Identical to the pre-2020 all-day 98. Trips to Unicity will require a transfer to 70 at Roblin & either Dale or William Clement, or to BLUE or 22 at Moray & Portage or the Grace.
• Route 888: Replaces Route 133 from the previous draft. Improves service in the Norwood area and operates along St-Joseph in both directions (instead of NB Taché and SB St-Joseph).

17 hours ago, MMP15 said:

On-Request Transit Changes

• The 110 is back. On the previous draft, St. B and Norwood would be served exclusively by the various fixed routes.
• The Riverview and Wildwood zones would be combined and take in the Lord Roberts area.
• The Murray Park/Strauss Drive and Westwood zones would be combined and take in the Booth and Silver Heights areas. I stand to personally benefit from this.

Edited February 25 by SirAndrew710
Forgot about the D15 when I made my initial post