Double Decker Bus Order

[sseguin]

Hello,

I was wondering if you guys had details on the upcoming DD bus order.

I am led to understand they are the same model as the current 3 but with some improvements. Any ideas what they are changing?

As well, when do you think we will start to see them arrive and enter service?

Thanks

[JCL]

Hello,

I was wondering if you guys had details on the upcoming DD bus order.

I am led to understand they are the same model as the current 3 but with some improvements. Any ideas what they are changing?

As well, when do you think we will start to see them arrive and enter service?

Thanks

One major change that I've heard for the upcoming order of DD's is that it will have a lower height, which will make the new buses less restrictive compared to the present three pilot buses as there are three locations where there are height clearance issues. The engines will be EPA 2010 compliant. I also know that OC want to specify a different axle model (so that they could accomodate more than 14 standees downstairs without damaging the axle) and a different rear door mechanism (because they are slow to open/close).

The new buses have to be in service by September 2012, so I would guess they would begin arriving in Spring.

[sseguin]

Cool thanks for all the info.

[MCIBUS]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a lower height mean the height in the bus will be lower, hence tall people will have less head clearance? I know back in June at the OC open house, when I was in the DD bus and went to the rear of the bus on the lower floor I had very little head clearance and I'm not that tall, anyone over 5'5" would bang their head on the ceiling.Also I heard the wheel chair postions may get slightly modified(hand railings.

[Centralsmt]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a lower height mean the height in the bus will be lower, hence tall people will have less head clearance? I know back in June at the OC open house, when I was in the DD bus and went to the rear of the bus on the lower floor I had very little head clearance and I'm not that tall, anyone over 5'5" would bang their head on the ceiling.Also I heard the wheel chair postions may get slightly modified(hand railings.

They could lower the height of the lower deck slightly as well depending on the axle specified.

[Centralsmt]

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a lower height mean the height in the bus will be lower, hence tall people will have less head clearance? I know back in June at the OC open house, when I was in the DD bus and went to the rear of the bus on the lower floor I had very little head clearance and I'm not that tall, anyone over 5'5" would bang their head on the ceiling.Also I heard the wheel chair postions may get slightly modified(hand railings.

Whist possible, it is not practical to build a double decker so that people over 6" could walk on the upper deck. I am 5" 9" and do not need to lower my head on a conventional low height double decker. If you want to see how the headroom is on a low height bus go on the upper deck of the Bristol Lodekka tour bus, that is the lowest height Double Decker bus in Ottawa.

[M.Wright]

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't a lower height mean the height in the bus will be lower, hence tall people will have less head clearance? I know back in June at the OC open house, when I was in the DD bus and went to the rear of the bus on the lower floor I had very little head clearance and I'm not that tall, anyone over 5'5" would bang their head on the ceiling.Also I heard the wheel chair postions may get slightly modified(hand railings.

I'm 6'2" and I have no problem on the top deck. I've yet to bang my head and I've ridden it many times.

[sbs7207b]

Look like the buses will be the Enviro 500 facelifted version with Enviro 400's front ADL website

[Enviro_1203]

Look like the buses will be the Enviro 500 facelifted version with Enviro 400's front ADL website

To be honest, I like that look, however, I prefer the original look.

[Centralsmt]

There is NO mention of OC Transpos order on ADL's website!!!!

Have these buses actually been ordered???

[JCL]

There is NO mention of OC Transpos order on ADL's website!!!!

Have these buses actually been ordered???

As of last month, the order has not been placed yet - according to this link (scroll down closer to the bottom).

[BCT-3122-D800-10240]

To be honest, I like that look, however, I prefer the original look.

Oh my... I don't think I like that new look. I very much prefer the original look.

[ORION]

One major change that I've heard for the upcoming order of DD's is that it will have a lower height, which will make the new buses less restrictive compared to the present three pilot buses as there are three locations where there are height clearance issues. The engines will be EPA 2010 compliant. I also know that OC want to specify a different axle model (so that they could accomodate more than 14 standees downstairs without damaging the axle) and a different rear door mechanism (because they are slow to open/close).

The new buses have to be in service by September 2012, so I would guess they would begin arriving in Spring.

GO Transit's order of 20 units are also coming with a lower height ,which is being changed by ADL as a standard configuration aparently. They will be able to run everywhere, just like OC's new ones. All Coach seats on the bottom floor as well.

[Cimon8000]

As of last month, the order has not been placed yet - according to this link (scroll down closer to the bottom).

i thought they have placed the order already but just working on the specification right now............i am really curious to know how further "lower" can the bus be............the ADL Enviro 500 currently operating in Canada is already lower than those running in Hong Kong and England already..........their's one are 4.35m in height while the ones here are 4.3m.................well they try to lower it to 4m like the double deckers running in GermanY?

GO Transit's order of 20 units are also coming with a lower height ,which is being changed by ADL as a standard configuration aparently. They will be able to run everywhere, just like OC's new ones. All Coach seats on the bottom floor as well.

o nice i never know GO Transit has ordered a further 20 of them, NICE can't wait to see them!!!

[Enviro_1203]

GO Transit's order of 20 units are also coming with a lower height ,which is being changed by ADL as a standard configuration aparently. They will be able to run everywhere, just like OC's new ones. All Coach seats on the bottom floor as well.

I have also heard that the ones OC is ordering will have suburban seating rather than regular seats. I guess this would be a good idea since they will be mostly on express routes, providing more comfort for a longer commute.

Is it be possible that express routes in Barrhaven, Orleans, and Kanata would be combined and lengthened to allow the suburban seats to make sense rather than having a 30-45 minute commute?

[Waiting for 30 Minutes]

Is it be possible that express routes in Barrhaven, Orleans, and Kanata would be combined and lengthened to allow the suburban seats to make sense rather than having a 30-45 minute commute?

I'm not sure how appealing combining suburban express routes would be...

[M.Wright]

I have also heard that the ones OC is ordering will have suburban seating rather than regular seats. I guess this would be a good idea since they will be mostly on express routes, providing more comfort for a longer commute.

Is it be possible that express routes in Barrhaven, Orleans, and Kanata would be combined and lengthened to allow the suburban seats to make sense rather than having a 30-45 minute commute?

Creating unnessary distance is counter-productive of transit. I will explain why, which actually fits perfectly with the reason for getting the double deckers.

If a route like the 43, goes down all the way to Leitrim and Bank prior to servicing Conroy and Johnson (coming from Downtown, otherwise it'd make some sense) to add extra time so that "makes sense", I'm sure no one would ride it from Conroy and Johnson, but instead, take their car, as they know their car will bring them the most direct route possible. As taking the car would save them 30-40 minutes in that situation, even with the transitway. So since Transit would take extremely longer, there is no point in taking the bus anymore. This would drive passengers away, reducing the need for the double deckers since then they can be serviced by 40 foot buses instead.

Express buses currently have an advantage over the car, and that is the Transitway, therefore it is quicker to take a express into Downtown vs driving. If you make collecting the riders too long, then it would eliminate that benefit for most people. And then our 80% of people riding transit into downtown would go down.

Also making it take longer in the suburban area won't make the majority of peoples trips longer, since the majority of the crushloaded ridership comes from park and rides. So all you would do is drive off the people who actually take the bus from their house. Therefore making our already overcrowded park and rides more overcrowded, bringing the need for us to build very expensive expansions to them, taking up more land with pavement that provides no taxes to the city at all, not helping our financial situation of this city. Not to mention most of the park and rides can't be expanded much more than they already are.

And in Waitingfor30minute's drawings, only people who would ride the bus from Orleans would be past where the bus turns onto what looks like Jeanne D'Arc from Innes. From Barrhaven, it would be from where the bus turns onto what looks like Malvern from Greenbank. The rest would just be a empty bus with 1 or 2 passengers, which again, would not help our financial situation of this city. With the city's transit funding policy, this would also drive our fares up, since revenue would go down.

So in the end, what seems to make sense to allow more usage of the suburban seats, would make no sense as it would ruin our transit system. But if it was a choice between this and cancelling the expresses all together, cancelling them would do alot less damage then merging them all into one route. Neither of those choices are good, but cancelling them wouldn't cause a bus do to 10 kms of unnessary stopping and going at all those stop signs, burning fuel for no reason, therefore costing less.

But the best choice for today, is just leave the routings as they are now (past Sept 4) since the routings actually now make some sense if you really think about it (for the express routes). OC has already consolidated the express routes already, compared to how they were before. Why would you consolidate them any futher than they already are?

[306 Carlton]

Creating unnessary distance is counter-productive of transit. I will explain why, which actually fits perfectly with the reason for getting the double deckers.

If a route like the 43, goes down all the way to Leitrim and Bank prior to servicing Conroy and Johnson (coming from Downtown, otherwise it'd make some sense) to add extra time so that "makes sense", I'm sure no one would ride it from Conroy and Johnson, but instead, take their car,

You'd be surprised.

[M.Wright]

 

You'd be surprised.

Well for that, I meant if the route went from Conroy and Johnson, down to Bank and Leitrim, then to South Keys before heading Downtown. Sure some people would still ride it, but most people would more likely opt for the 143, since it wouldn't have to go so far out of the way. That or take the car. Therefore making the direct ride downtown useless. Same principal translates onto the express buses.

[general682002]

i thought they have placed the order already but just working on the specification right now............i am really curious to know how further "lower" can the bus be............the ADL Enviro 500 currently operating in Canada is already lower than those running in Hong Kong and England already..........their's one are 4.35m in height while the ones here are 4.3m.................well they try to lower it to 4m like the double deckers running in GermanY?

This is a huge compete against the Van Hool DD. Alexander Dennis have lower the height on the lower deck for the new model!

[Centralsmt]

This is a huge compete against the Van Hool DD. Alexander Dennis have lower the height on the lower deck for the new model!

The Van Hool DD is NOT a bus and is not suitable for suburban, or urban, transit, it is a long distance coach.

BTW the Enviro 500 facelift just makes it look like a "big" Enviro 400.

[Millennium2002]

The trend towards a family appearance seemed to have started in Europe... not many were pleased with the different and distinct look that they tried to bring in with the ADL Enviro300... and yet the same model reportedly seems to be doing better when it was updated to look the same as the more familiar Enviro200 and Enviro400.

I personally never appreciated the fact that the Enviro500 looked somewhat out of place compared to related buses from ADL, and the recent facelift for the Enviro300 just highlighted the inconsistency even more... so something like this was not unexpected by a long shot. Besides, the new headlight arrangement looks more conventional, familiar, and therefore appealing to me than ever before.

Perhaps the design change is also a way of enticing North American customers to the other products that ADL produces, especially the low-floor fleet? A consistent appearance I think would be good for recognition and branding by agencies, especially during times like these where the bottom line is key.

[Cimon8000]

The trend towards a family appearance seemed to have started in Europe... not many were pleased with the different and distinct look that they tried to bring in with the ADL Enviro300... and yet the same model reportedly seems to be doing better when it was updated to look the same as the more familiar Enviro200 and Enviro400.

I personally never appreciated the fact that the Enviro500 looked somewhat out of place compared to related buses from ADL, and the recent facelift for the Enviro300 just highlighted the inconsistency even more... so something like this was not unexpected by a long shot. Besides, the new headlight arrangement looks more conventional, familiar, and therefore appealing to me than ever before.

Perhaps the design change is also a way of enticing North American customers to the other products that ADL produces, especially the low-floor fleet? A consistent appearance I think would be good for recognition and branding by agencies, especially during times like these where the bottom line is key.

any update on OC Transpo order yet? it's already Oct and they should finalize the order now.......

[JCL]

any update on OC Transpo order yet? it's already Oct and they should finalize the order now.......

From what I've heard recently, they have finalized the specification and an announcement will be made "soon" (although I don't know when that announcement is going to take place).

[Cimon8000]

From what I've heard recently, they have finalized the specification and an announcement will be made "soon" (although I don't know when that announcement is going to take place).

Thanks for the update, i am wondering if they are going to keep 1201 to 1203 since they will be the only Enviros with standard height while the rest of the 75 buses will be lower height than the current 3 buses.