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Why is the 41 not operating with trolleybuses?

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3 hours ago, FlyingPig said:

Guys maybe instead of fueling the fire we should just stop posting here and let the thread sink to the bottom. Stop feeding the troll.

@VancouverTrolleybus, it seems you are very interested in trolleybuses. Perhaps you could share your opinions in the Transit Service Discussion thread.

And if this thread keeps spiraling out of control, perhaps we could call in @MCW Metrobusūüėč

It's stuff like this that makes me want to create the stupid comments thread.

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So, is every one OK without trolley's on the 41 right now? ¬†Everyone being able to cope? ¬†ūü§£

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7 hours ago, 9924 said:

So, is every one OK without trolley's on the 41 right now? ¬†Everyone being able to cope? ¬†ūü§£

I don't care really. I find it funny that someone dedicated an entire thread to the subject.

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On 1/18/2020 at 9:13 AM, Peterbiltguy1989@gmail.com said:

I don't care really. I find it funny that someone dedicated an entire thread to the subject.

Well, what else should I create a thread for?

On 1/18/2020 at 1:23 AM, 9924 said:

So, is every one OK without trolley's on the 41 right now? ¬†Everyone being able to cope? ¬†ūü§£

I hope I could...

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There is not enough trolley buses to expand 41 services 

need new improve version with air conditioning 

100 new trolley and 50 additional articulate trolley 

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3 minutes ago, cmbc2008 said:

There is not enough trolley buses to expand 41 services 

need new improve version with air conditioning 

100 new trolley and 50 additional articulate trolley 

Maybe our next trolley fleet will have a bigger fleet to keep the 41's¬†as trolleybuses.¬†ūüôā

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What’s Vancouver TC’s maximum trolley capacity? And can that be expanded at all with the new Marpole TC coming online? (For that matter, does the new Burnaby mayor mean we might be able to electrify Burnaby TC?)

(Also, I can’t believe I’m actually posting to this!)

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8 hours ago, cmbc2008 said:

There is not enough trolley buses to expand 41 services 

need new improve version with air conditioning 

100 new trolley and 50 additional articulate trolley 

We don't need additional articulated trolleys. Once the Victoria Drive RapidBus launches in a few years the 20 will probably convert to 40-foot trolleys with reduced frequency. We just need more 40-foot trolleys or swap the 40-footers used on the 5/6 with artics from the 20. With the assumed reduced frequency to every 15 minutes on the 20 there should be enough 40-foot trolleys for the 41.

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12 hours ago, 8010 said:

We don't need additional articulated trolleys. Once the Victoria Drive RapidBus launches in a few years the 20 will probably convert to 40-foot trolleys with reduced frequency. We just need more 40-foot trolleys or swap the 40-footers used on the 5/6 with artics from the 20. With the assumed reduced frequency to every 15 minutes on the 20 there should be enough 40-foot trolleys for the 41.

Or... they can attempt to use trolleys on a RapidBus route, like how Seattle tried. It would be interesting to see dual trolley wires on Victoria Drive.

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On 1/22/2020 at 6:45 AM, GORDOOM said:

What’s Vancouver TC’s maximum trolley capacity? And can that be expanded at all with the new Marpole TC coming online? (For that matter, does the new Burnaby mayor mean we might be able to electrify Burnaby TC?)

(Also, I can’t believe I’m actually posting to this!)

VTC has room for a couple hundred trolleys on the existing wires.  If they expanded and added some more overhead on the tracks at the southend of the lot, they could fit in a few more.

At this time, there are no plans to have any trolleys at the new depot.  VTC will be the sole trolley depot as it is now.

There is no reason for Burnaby to go trolley.  Battery buses will be the future.

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1 hour ago, 9924 said:

VTC has room for a couple hundred trolleys on the existing wires.  If they expanded and added some more overhead on the tracks at the southend of the lot, they could fit in a few more.

At this time, there are no plans to have any trolleys at the new depot.  VTC will be the sole trolley depot as it is now.

There is no reason for Burnaby to go trolley.  Battery buses will be the future.

When Burnaby transit centre was built, it was future proofed to be able to accommodate trolleybuses. There was talk in the 80s of extending the 9 to Brentwood Mall and IIRC the 14 off Hastings. There could be an economic case for housing some of the trolley fleet there to enable half the buses on the 9 and 14 (maybe also 16s?) to take a short deadhead to BTC rather than the long haul back to VTC.

Battery buses will be a major part of the future (assuming that they prove themselves in service) but there will also be a role for battery-trolleybus hybrids on the heaviest duty routes and that may be some increase in the numbers though the bulk of the electric fleet is likely to be battery. Maybe some fuel cell buses for longer distance routes? 

19 hours ago, buizelbus said:

Or... they can attempt to use trolleys on a RapidBus route, like how Seattle tried. It would be interesting to see dual trolley wires on Victoria Drive.

Or could they run trolleys as the RapidBus service and use battery buses on the all-stops service? That would give an all-electric service on Commercial and Victoria without the need for express wires.

 

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10 minutes ago, martin607 said:

When Burnaby transit centre was built, it was future proofed to be able to accommodate trolleybuses. There was talk in the 80s of extending the 9 to Brentwood Mall and IIRC the 14 off Hastings. There could be an economic case for housing some of the trolley fleet there to enable half the buses on the 9 and 14 (maybe also 16s?) to take a short deadhead to BTC rather than the long haul back to VTC.

Battery buses will be a major part of the future (assuming that they prove themselves in service) but there will also be a role for battery-trolleybus hybrids on the heaviest duty routes and that may be some increase in the numbers though the bulk of the electric fleet is likely to be battery. Maybe some fuel cell buses for longer distance routes? 

 

What something was built for 30-40 years ago is irrelevant, they planned for the future (which is smart) and were prepared if needed, there was no need.  But today, there is a newer and better technology on the horizon and it would be unwise to invest in expanding a technology that will very likely be replaced in the not too distant future.

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4 minutes ago, 9924 said:

What something was built for 30-40 years ago is irrelevant, they planned for the future (which is smart) and were prepared if needed, there was no need.  But today, there is a newer and better technology on the horizon and it would be unwise to invest in expanding a technology that will very likely be replaced in the not too distant future.

I was giving some background. And the point is structurally BTC was built so that it can accommodate trolleybus wiring etc.

Fortunately Translink is taking a more balanced view on the relative merits of both types of electric bus and is working on the assumption that the trolleybus fleet will be renewed when the time comes.  They are likely to be battery-trolleybus hybrids as used extensively on existing European systems.   

 

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5 minutes ago, martin607 said:

I was giving some background. And the point is structurally BTC was built so that it can accommodate trolleybus wiring etc.

Fortunately Translink is taking a more balanced view on the relative merits of both types of electric bus and is working on the assumption that the trolleybus fleet will be renewed when the time comes.  They are likely to be battery-trolleybus hybrids as used extensively on existing European systems.   

 

Translink looks at costs first and foremost.   If costs dictate setting up chargers and buying battery buses is a more effective suited for the future than expanding an overhead network,  rest assured they'll be taking that route.

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8 minutes ago, 9924 said:

Translink looks at costs first and foremost.   If costs dictate setting up chargers and buying battery buses is a more effective suited for the future than expanding an overhead network,  rest assured they'll be taking that route.

Of course they look at the costs and that's why Translink decided it just doesn't make sense to try to replace trolleybuses by battery buses. There are some situations where battery-trolleybuses will be more economical to operate than 100% battery bus. However, for the majority of routes currently operated by diesels and hybrids, battery buses will be the correct answer once the technology is mature.  

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5 hours ago, martin607 said:

Of course they look at the costs and that's why Translink decided it just doesn't make sense to try to replace trolleybuses by battery buses. There are some situations where battery-trolleybuses will be more economical to operate than 100% battery bus. However, for the majority of routes currently operated by diesels and hybrids, battery buses will be the correct answer once the technology is mature.  

My point is that keeping the trolley network for the near future is a completely different fiscal decision than expanding it for the long term.  Any decision to keep the trolleys will be made one fleet generation at a time.

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Trolley buses has proven to be the most cost efficient systems 

with our extensive network 

there will be more newer high tech trolley buses in the future 

battery trolley bus hybrid 

 

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1 hour ago, cmbc2008 said:

Trolley buses has proven to be the most cost efficient systems 

with our extensive network 

there will be more newer high tech trolley buses in the future 

battery trolley bus hybrid 

 

IF the network is already in place.  Added to that, in the not to distant future, building and expanding a trolley network will come at a much higher overall cost than newer technologies such as building a charging network.

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2 hours ago, cmbc2008 said:

battery trolley bus hybrid 

Something like¬†Kiepe Electric's In Motion Charging?¬†That seems like a good solution and I can see most, if not all buses that run under trolley wire (no matter what they are right now‚ÄĒdiesel, hybrid, etc.) being switched to electric units with such a system. Also eliminates the need for there to be two different types of electric buses in the fleet.

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On 1/21/2020 at 11:32 PM, cmbc2008 said:

There is not enough trolley buses to expand 41 services 

need new improve version with air conditioning 

100 new trolley and 50 additional articulate trolley 

Answer I got was that they are going with diesel buses for the foreseeable future for 41st Avenue due to heavy construction between Cambie to Oak. They have been notified there will be periodic closures on 41st Ave between this spring to 2023.

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4 hours ago, GoCanGo said:

Answer I got was that they are going with diesel buses for the foreseeable future for 41st Avenue due to heavy construction between Cambie to Oak. They have been notified there will be periodic closures on 41st Ave between this spring to 2023.

If that is the case why was all this money spent at Joyce Station on all the new overhead? Another prime example of Translink wasting money. That could've been money put towards improvements to avoid overcrowding on some routes.

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10 hours ago, GoCanGo said:

Answer I got was that they are going with diesel buses for the foreseeable future for 41st Avenue due to heavy construction between Cambie to Oak. They have been notified there will be periodic closures on 41st Ave between this spring to 2023.

Hmm complete closures? I wonder how they will deal with trolley deadheading on east side routes. Marine Drive, Main, 41st?

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16 hours ago, dover5949 said:

If that is the case why was all this money spent at Joyce Station on all the new overhead? Another prime example of Translink wasting money. That could've been money put towards improvements to avoid overcrowding on some routes.

Cheaper to build the infrastructure as part of the Joyce Station upgrades than add it back in later. Also, the loop can be useful as a short-turn for the #19 if there’s problems between Joyce and Willingdon.

10 hours ago, martin607 said:

Hmm complete closures? I wonder how they will deal with trolley deadheading on east side routes. Marine Drive, Main, 41st?

Given that Vancouver TC is on Marine, it wouldn’t even be a particularly round-about way of getting in and out of service.

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