Jump to content
Express691

2020 (-2023) Articulated 60' Bus Procurement

Recommended Posts

The scope of work is linked from the bids and opportunities site. https://service.ariba.com/Discovery.aw/125009033/aw?awh=r&awssk=9CMSo3kW&awrdt=1#

Key pointers: 
1) Base order is for 55 units by mid-2021
2) Option orders:

  • 30 units by end of 2021
  • 20 units by end of 2022
  • 20 units by end of 2023

3) Liveries are Standard BlueTop or RapidBus 
4) New Features:

  • Passenger Stop Request System – electronic push strips along base of passenger windows to replace current requirement of pull cords. 
  • USB Ports - USB charge port (with sacrificial pigtail for easy repair) to be installed in a location easily accessible to passengers. Each USB charge port per seat will require overcurrent protection.
  • Wi-Fi System – Installation of 3rd party vendor supplied equipment and cabling for TransLink’s WiFi system (see reference document Preliminary WiFi Design Requirements for details).
  • Charge Plug Location (applicable to Electric Bus only) - Combined Charging System (CCS) plug-in charge port on the street-side of the Vehicle in addition to the curb-side charge port.

=================
Discussion pointers:
0) We do not know what yards these buses are going to... yet. However, Marpole Transit Centre is scheduled to open for Fall 2023. That could be a possibility.
1) Unknown manufacturer, but I'm placing my money on NFI
2) Unknown propulsion, but it's hinted that battery electric may be an option. One can call it a stretch and say that more artic trolleys could potentially be an option
3) The May 2019 Mayor's Council meeting suggested 19 artics in 2020 and 30 artics in 2021. 

  • This is a change as 34 more artics are being purchased for 2020, bringing the total to 55. However, the artics in 2021 remain constant.
  • Observing the strike, I think it's possible that CMBC may want to lower driver requirements and increase capacity instead of frequency.

4) I actually don't think the transition away from pull cords isn't too bad since we've had stop buttons since 2000/2001.

Post away

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try this link: https://service.ariba.com/Discovery.aw/ad/viewRFX?id=7536156

1 hour ago, Express691 said:


2) Unknown propulsion, but it's hinted that battery electric may be an option. One can call it a stretch and say that more artic trolleys could potentially be an option

  • Observing the strike, I think it's possible that CMBC may want to lower driver requirements and increase capacity instead of frequency.

 

This RFI is certainly not for trolley buses. These are documents which require a certain degree of specificity for manufacturers to be able to bid in good faith. Nothing in this RFI includes anything about external infrastructure or specialized equipment external to the vehicle. The only "stretch" would be CNG (as it is an existing capacity that doesn't make the vehicle limited to specialty infrastructure)... battery & trolley wouldn't fall into this document as it is presented. 

Your comment about lowering driver requirements seems like a strech. Has Translink said or done anything to make you believe that? This RFI seems well inline with what someone could expect to be the purchasing behaviour of Translink based on the last decade, and with an expending RapidBus network. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Express691 said:

The scope of work is linked from the bids and opportunities site. https://service.ariba.com/Discovery.aw/125009033/aw?awh=r&awssk=9CMSo3kW&awrdt=1#

Key pointers: 
1) Base order is for 55 units by mid-2021
2) Option orders:

  • 30 units by end of 2021
  • 20 units by end of 2022
  • 20 units by end of 2023

3) Liveries are Standard BlueTop or RapidBus 
4) New Features:

  • Passenger Stop Request System – electronic push strips along base of passenger windows to replace current requirement of pull cords. 
  • USB Ports - USB charge port (with sacrificial pigtail for easy repair) to be installed in a location easily accessible to passengers. Each USB charge port per seat will require overcurrent protection.
  • Wi-Fi System – Installation of 3rd party vendor supplied equipment and cabling for TransLink’s WiFi system (see reference document Preliminary WiFi Design Requirements for details).
  • Charge Plug Location (applicable to Electric Bus only) - Combined Charging System (CCS) plug-in charge port on the street-side of the Vehicle in addition to the curb-side charge port.

=================
Discussion pointers:
0) We do not know what yards these buses are going to... yet. However, Marpole Transit Centre is scheduled to open for Fall 2023. That could be a possibility.
1) Unknown manufacturer, but I'm placing my money on NFI
2) Unknown propulsion, but it's hinted that battery electric may be an option. One can call it a stretch and say that more artic trolleys could potentially be an option
3) The May 2019 Mayor's Council meeting suggested 19 artics in 2020 and 30 artics in 2021. 

  • This is a change as 34 more artics are being purchased for 2020, bringing the total to 55. However, the artics in 2021 remain constant.
  • Observing the strike, I think it's possible that CMBC may want to lower driver requirements and increase capacity instead of frequency.

4) I actually don't think the transition away from pull cords isn't too bad since we've had stop buttons since 2000/2001.

Post away

I’m gonna play devils advocate and say NovaBus. If only for something different. Realistically, it’ll probably be New Flyer. In terms of depot... honestly... I’d love to see them in HTC/MTC. (Seeing that M prefix will look very strange) . Something I’d like to see are CNG artics. But the stop request strip... I haven’t seen those since the D40LFs. 🤣 They were always in the disabled section. Sometimes they worked... often times not. 🤣 Man... this RFP is a little different. It’s like going to a convention, asking an artist to draw... whatever just based off some text you wrote at 3am the night before. And other than colours, and some ideas, you’re not really sure of anything else. “Have at it and surprise me!” 🤣

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, translink said:

I’m gonna play devils advocate and say NovaBus. If only for something different. Realistically, it’ll probably be New Flyer. In terms of depot... honestly... I’d love to see them in HTC/MTC. (Seeing that M prefix will look very strange) . Something I’d like to see are CNG artics. 

My guess is XDE60s or XN60s for HTC and STC for the two RapidBus routes, but most likely XDE60s as there's no point in switching to a different propulsion. (I really hope we don't end up getting Nova Artics)

As for the whole battery-electric discussion, it certainly is possible as TL would have to put in another RFI for the chargers and any other external equipment needed for those buses. There was a BYD K11M at BTC not too long ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Dane said:

This RFI is certainly not for trolley buses. These are documents which require a certain degree of specificity for manufacturers to be able to bid in good faith. Nothing in this RFI includes anything about external infrastructure or specialized equipment external to the vehicle. The only "stretch" would be CNG (as it is an existing capacity that doesn't make the vehicle limited to specialty infrastructure)... battery & trolley wouldn't fall into this document as it is presented. 

But that doesn’t prevent NFI from offering XT60s or XTE60s as an unsolicited option. TL is totally within their rights to authorize variances from the spec, even on something as substantial as an entirely different propulsion system. (It also doesn’t prevent TL and NFI from negotiating changes later on: same number of coaches, but different propulsion systems and TL pays the difference in cost. We did that a few years ago to get more E60LFRs.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

But that doesn’t prevent NFI from offering XT60s or XTE60s as an unsolicited option. TL is totally within their rights to authorize variances from the spec, even on something as substantial as an entirely different propulsion system. (It also doesn’t prevent TL and NFI from negotiating changes later on: same number of coaches, but different propulsion systems and TL pays the difference in cost. We did that a few years ago to get more E60LFRs.)

PubLic entities in BC can't purchase unsolicited bids, and a trolley couldn't even become an accepted bid in the first place. 

The E60 thing was a modification of an existing contract and got some sourced which in itself is a process. 

 

--

 

Terrible typo hahahaha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dane said:

Pubic entities 

Sorry, what entities?

4 hours ago, GORDOOM said:

We did that a few years ago to get more E60LFRs.)

Sorry, how long ago?

==========

All joking aside, my statement earlier about increased capacity was under the assumption that the initial 49 buses total for 2020/2021 was enough to fulfill the rapidbus expansions for the next few years. However, yeah - considering the sheer amount of rapidbus proposals for 2021 (I believe 4-5 routes are in planning stage), it does justify purchasing dozens more units.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dane said:

PubLic entities in BC can't purchase unsolicited bids, and a trolley couldn't even become an accepted bid in the first place.

“Proponents are encouraged to use and incorporate innovative and creative elements in their proposed design and engineering of the Work that meet the requirements of the Specifications. Proponents may include different or additional specifications to those set out in this RFP provided that any such changes to, or non-compliance with, the Specifications are clearly identified, technically acceptable to TransLink and supported by the Proponent.”

IOW there is nothing stopping a proponent from proposing as an option a change to the specifications calling for the use of trolley poles as current collectors for a battery-electric bus. TL can accept or reject such an option at its discretion under the terms of the current RFP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, GORDOOM said:

“Proponents are encouraged to use and incorporate innovative and creative elements in their proposed design and engineering of the Work that meet the requirements of the Specifications. Proponents may include different or additional specifications to those set out in this RFP provided that any such changes to, or non-compliance with, the Specifications are clearly identified, technically acceptable to TransLink and supported by the Proponent.”

IOW there is nothing stopping a proponent from proposing as an option a change to the specifications calling for the use of trolley poles as current collectors for a battery-electric bus. TL can accept or reject such an option at its discretion under the terms of the current RFP.

Yes, there is. 

 

The specifications, not available to us, will have some defined requirements. What we do know is that there is no infrastructure piece here. A use of overhead systems would initiate a second contract requirement. You don't need to agree with me, but you're painting a transit fan dream here. The BC Financial Administration Act doesn't allow for a purchase of something like a bus that would have a significant second order repercussion of needing another capital investment unless they're either contracted at the same time, or, there is a public notification of a second contract. That sentence you've quoted does not supersede in anyway TLs legal requirements to request for bids in a very standardized way - that line simply means TL is not beholden to just ordering more of exactly what they have now. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...