Misc. OC Transpo & STO Questions & Discussion

[GTAmissions1]

2 hours ago, HB_1024 said:

Came across a tweet today about a supposed approval of "borrowing $20M for replacement buses". Anyone know the truth to this, and whether this is to cover some of the costs of the 17 double decker buses already on the way, or some number of other buses, and if it is the latter, what exactly they're replacing?

The $20 million dollar figure is for two train sets with 50 percent covered by the federal government via public transit infrastructure funding. 

It is for two train sets. Link to the source below: 

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/08/23/canada-and-ontario-sign-agreement-public-transit-infrastructure-funding

Also in the same link. 17 new expansion buses for $6.8 million dollars of federal government funding. At $925,000/unit for double decker buses, that is $15,725,000 or just under half the amount for the total purchasing cost. No buses are being replaced. The ones that are at the end of their life cycle are being refurbished to keep them together until the first stage of the Confederation line opens. 

Maximum percentage for public transit infrastructure funding is 50 percent. 

[newflyerD60LF1994]

Is there going to be a 2017 bus operator recruitment? 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, newflyerD60LF1994 said:

Is there going to be a 2017 bus operator recruitment? 

No one knows, and will not know until they post one up

[OCtranspo10]

Here's something I've been wondering...

OC has said the new Connexions route will not be express fare. But the new fare system doesn't take place until Jan 1. 

Service change Dec 25. Fare System update, Jan1.

Quote

Starting Dec. 25, 2016, express routes will receive their new Connexion Route number (see table below), and riding these routes will no longer require a fare premium. If you normally purchase (or Auto-renew) an Express pass, make the switch to a regular pass for January at prestocard.ca.

http://www.octranspo.com/routes/getting_ready_for_rail#Connexion

 

Quote

The following fare changes have been proposed for the 2017 budget and submitted for Council approval. Starting Jan. 1, 2017:

• Express premiums fares are eliminated. All routes, including Connexion routes (former express routes) will require regular fare only.

http://www.octranspo.com/tickets-and-passes/new_fares_starting_new_years_day

[GTAmissions1]

2 hours ago, OCtranspo10 said:

Here's something I've been wondering...

OC has said the new Connexions route will not be express fare. But the new fare system doesn't take place until Jan 1. 

Service change Dec 25. Fare System update, Jan1.

http://www.octranspo.com/routes/getting_ready_for_rail#Connexion

 

http://www.octranspo.com/tickets-and-passes/new_fares_starting_new_years_day

Interesting find. I think there is going to be a bit of confusion until the transition to the new fare table. 

Considering that Express pass holders that have paid up for this month (December) at the higher rate. They can't simply cut the Express pass to when the system changes and then rebate the remaining amount on a Presto card. A lot of work back office wise along with the marketing advising people to buy regular pass starting January and terminating auto-renew on Express passes.

[1overcosc]

In practice, a good chunk of the express riders won't actually take the bus between December 25 and December 31. Express/Connexions buses won't run on December 25, December 26, or December 27 as those days are statutory holidays. While the buses do run at reduced schedules on December 28, December 29, and December 30; many riders are on vacation for those three days, hence the reduced schedule. And then December 31 is a Saturday.

As for Express passes, all auto-renew contracts for Express passes were automatically cancelled on December 15th by the Presto system.

[chimo]

5 hours ago, 1overcosc said:

In practice, a good chunk of the express riders won't actually take the bus between December 25 and December 31. Express/Connexions buses won't run on December 25, December 26, or December 27 as those days are statutory holidays. While the buses do run at reduced schedules on December 28, December 29, and December 30; many riders are on vacation for those three days, hence the reduced schedule. And then December 31 is a Saturday.

As for Express passes, all auto-renew contracts for Express passes were automatically cancelled on December 15th by the Presto system.

On the run I usually take the driver made sure we notice the new numbers and prepare ourselves which is nice as he won't be driving that route on the next booking which starts on December 25th hence the disconnect between the fares and the new route numbers. 

I agree with you, there will be so few of us riding those 3 days that am sure it won't be that bad. 

My colleagues and I are more concerned about buses being swamped by riders who didn't use the expresses but in January with the new fare system might be tempted to switch to connexion routes and even that won't be until the 2nd week of January. That's probably the real issue. 

 

[OCtranspo10]

Well for me, those day I will be taking my 269 (Old 61) to go to and from work. I only have a regular pass. 

I am planning to call OC on Monday to see what's up because I want to know if I will be charged top up. 

[Oc4526]

2 hours ago, chimo said:

My colleagues and I are more concerned about buses being swamped by riders who didn't use the expresses but in January with the new fare system might be tempted to switch to connexion routes and even that won't be until the 2nd week of January. That's probably the real issue.

Thats why Oc Transpo has eliminated service between Tunney's Past. & Baseline (Barrhaven Connection rtes) &

Tunney's Past. to Bayshore for Kanata Rtes (Except the 283 which will stop at Lincoln for connecting Pax) To discourage short trips on the Connection rtes 

From Octranspo.com

 

Starting December 28, 2016, west-end Connexion routes will skip some Transitway stations in the afternoon homebound direction after Tunney's Pasture.

   •  Routes 252, 256, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 268, 269:  No service from Westboro to Pinecrest Station. Next stop Bayshore Station.

   •  Routes 270, 271, 272, 273, 277:  No service from Westboro to Baseline Station. Next stop Fallowfield Station.

   •  Route 283:  No service from Westboro to Dominion Station. Next stop Lincoln Fields Station.

[chimo]

3 minutes ago, Oc4526 said:

Thats why Oc Transpo has eliminated service between Tunney's Past. & Baseline (Barrhaven Connection rtes) &

Tunney's Past. to Bayshore for Kanata Rtes (Except the 283 which will stop at Lincoln for connecting Pax) To discourage short trips on the Connection rtes 

From Octranspo.com

 

Starting December 28, 2016, west-end Connexion routes will skip some Transitway stations in the afternoon homebound direction after Tunney's Pasture.

   •  Routes 252, 256, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 268, 269:  No service from Westboro to Pinecrest Station. Next stop Bayshore Station.

   •  Routes 270, 271, 272, 273, 277:  No service from Westboro to Baseline Station. Next stop Fallowfield Station.

   •  Route 283:  No service from Westboro to Dominion Station. Next stop Lincoln Fields Station.

Great idea just wished it was feasible in the east but don't see how it would be possible. Glad they are doing it for those routes in the south-west. 

[Oc4526]

Just now, chimo said:

Great idea just wished it was feasible in the east but don't see how it would be possible. Glad they are doing it for those routes in the south-west. 

Though the Orleans bound Connection rtes already run express from Laurier Stn. With the new fares those who normally take the 91/94 to Orleans/Trim/Millennium  might switch over to a more direct rte home.

[chimo]

54 minutes ago, Oc4526 said:

Though the Orleans bound Connection rtes already run express from Laurier Stn. With the new fares those who normally take the 91/94 to Orleans/Trim/Millennium  might switch over to a more direct rte home.

Yup that's what am afraid of. Would rather switch to a trunk route with a short local that way we would get better frequency. 

Things will be better after stage 2 when the locals quickly bring you to your local station, only a few buses at each station. Meanwhile ...

[1overcosc]

11 hours ago, OCtranspo10 said:

Well for me, those day I will be taking my 269 (Old 61) to go to and from work. I only have a regular pass. 

I am planning to call OC on Monday to see what's up because I want to know if I will be charged top up. 

On December 28, 29, and 30th, you'll have to pay an express top up to use Route 269. Regular fares on Connexion routes do not take effect until the new year (January 3rd, as the first work day of 2017).

[Enviro_1203]

39 minutes ago, 1overcosc said:

On December 28, 29, and 30th, you'll have to pay an express top up to use Route 269. Regular fares on Connexion routes do not take effect until the new year (January 3rd, as the first work day of 2017).

Wrong, regular fare will be in effect as of December 25th (date of booking change). Fare change goes into effect Jan 1, no more express fare after December 23rd as the 24th is Saturday service.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Enviro_1203 said:

Wrong, regular fare will be in effect as of December 25th (date of booking change). Fare change goes into effect Jan 1, no more express fare after December 23rd as the 24th is Saturday service.

Correct

[Guest]

The TTC is phasing out Paper Schedules to save money.

Article Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-stop-schedules-1.3908452

Is this next for us, when they optimize service again in the coming years? Will the mass population write tweets like this:

OR will they be like this:

Who knows? Yeah,  Ottawa is probably keeping those paper schedules.

[MCIBUS]

I hope they do.

[OCtranspo10]

Here's an Idea of been thinking of late... What if Ottawa were to get Express buses (limited stop buses) on Baseline, Carling, and Merivale.

 

So for example.

118E. For the 118, I don't think it would make much sense have a limited stop in Kanata, so maybe from Queensway Carleton to Hurdman? With stops at Greenbank, Centrepoint/Cobden, Baseline, Algonquin College, Navaho, Clyde, Laurentian Place, Merivale, Fisher, Prince of Wales, Confederation, Heron, Billings, Hurdman.

Now, this would also be a good test to see what the demand is like as a start to the Baseline BRT without construction. Finding the resources may be an issue, and if this were to be done I don't think turning scheduled trips into Express trips is the best idea. Rather adding trips.

For Carling I think the 101 could be the fix. Making the 101 Limited stops would take less resources and not having to add extra service. The schedule already has the 85, and 101 run on the same times anyways. 

(Stops at Kirkwood, Merivale, Fisher/Holland, Civic, Carling, Preston, Booth)

For Merivale. Merivale Rd need a service increase during rush hour badly. It's scheduled 10-12 minutes during rush hour, but should be cut down to almost 6 or 7 minute headway's. Anyways. These express trips should only be going to Merivale and Slack (Or even Hunt Club). 

With stops at Holland and Wellington, Holland and Carling, Merivale and Carling, Kirkwood, Baseline, stops between Medowlands and Viewmont, Hunt Club, and Slack.

 

[Guest]

^ i'll take you up on that idea. That'll be when OC Transpo is not cutting down rush hour service due to the lack of buses.

[newflyerD60LF1994]

Btw oc transpo is currently hiring 8 apprenticeship mechanics. And 4 relief training instructors.

[chimo]

2 hours ago, CyrusKafaiWu said:

^ i'll take you up on that idea. That'll be when OC Transpo is not cutting down rush hour service due to the lack of buses.

I understand your point and partly agree. But what if it would reduce the number of buses required, hence enabling better service within the existing fleet? 

it would require careful analysis of the O-D inquiries plus OC's data to figure out which stops should receive the express or limited treatment.

Presumably it should take less buses if they can run quicker through the route. The question becomes does it reduce the requirement enough that we have the number of buses to do so?

not every route could benefit from that but the 118 could be the pilot.

The real problem for OC is not the lack of buses but what if it works? Ironically success here would prevent them from building the Baseline BRT as currently conceived. With only two lanes buses can't pass each other. With an express or limited stop service inevitably the express would run into the local. Hence you would need more lanes, but that would increase costs but fundamentally where do you find the space to put the extra lanes? On most of the route I think you can't, not at costs (financial and political) that would be acceptable. 

Any other route that could benefit from that? 

[ikarus]

So now that the premium fare Express routes have transitioned into the regular fare routes, have any of you noticed changes in passenger demand? Do the routes carry more or less passengers now? Do people board or make their connections at different stops/Stations, etc?

[chimo]

13 minutes ago, ikarus said:

So now that the premium fare Express routes have transitioned into the regular fare routes, have any of you noticed changes in passenger demand? Do the routes carry more or less passengers now? Do people board or make their connections at different stops/Stations, etc?

I use the 233/33 and I see every day more and more people boarding right from the start. Also throughout the route but of course especially at the Champlain park and ride (opposite Place d'Orléans). Few people get off at the park and ride but always a few .

In the afternoon express passengers were used to take the first express to Place. I have noticed that more passengers are doing the same but also passengers are boarding and off-loading within the downtown area. Using the connexion bus as a local. 

I have averaged about 10 minutes longer in the morning but in the afternoon not much despite people using it as a local, it's already difficult to move anyway. 

Perhaps I will start using the first 91 that comes but they are still jam packed  

 

[HB_1024]

The last 256/66 in the morning is still about the same. There are a few passengers I don't recognize as being "regulars" from the express, but a lot of the "regulars" also have found other routes because OC Transpo insists on putting an artic on that run when it is obvious that an artic cannot handle the demand!

I have thus far not taken it homebound, but I have been on route 269/61 as well as the 267/62, and again the demand is fairly similar. With the exception of all of the people that used to take it from Bayview to Westboro for reasons I don't understand.

[JCL]

4 hours ago, chimo said:

I use the 233/33 and I see every day more and more people boarding right from the start. Also throughout the route but of course especially at the Champlain park and ride (opposite Place d'Orléans). Few people get off at the park and ride but always a few .

In the afternoon express passengers were used to take the first express to Place. I have noticed that more passengers are doing the same but also passengers are boarding and off-loading within the downtown area. Using the connexion bus as a local. 

I have averaged about 10 minutes longer in the morning but in the afternoon not much despite people using it as a local, it's already difficult to move anyway. 

Perhaps I will start using the first 91 that comes but they are still jam packed  

 

Route 33 (and 131) is my route as well. The reason why they go to the Orleans Park and Ride is because Route 120 has been eliminated, and none of the Route 33 inbound trips during the AM rush hour service Place d'Orleans Station (local platform). As a way to accommodate those who might need to transfer to another bus route, the 33 will service the park and ride and have those transferring passengers walk the pedestrian bridge where they could make the transfer.

Similar situation with the Route 135. There are no AM rush hour trips to Place d'Orleans. As such, those passengers would have to take the new Route 235 and get off at the Orleans Park and Ride in order to make the transfers for Place d'Orleans Station. I have heard via Twitter (from other customers) complaining about going to either St. Peters High School or Sir Wilfrid Laurier Secondary School taking Route 235, and the Downtown commuters aren't liking the extra passenger loads.