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Eren Jaeger

McNicoll Bus Garage - Updates and Discussion

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6 hours ago, Xtrazsteve said:

Honestly most materials translated into French is just wasted in the GTA. 95% of the population isn't going read the French signs going up on the Crosstown.

The whole point of printing in other language is communication. As mention above, elders in the area would find the translation useful and that the TTC properly communicated to them. What good would a French version be?

For the Crosstown, since Metrolinx is an agency of the Government of Ontario, they are required to translate into French.

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Yeah I understand why, but it kinda pisses me off that they are pandering to a segment of the community that has no desire or willingness to learn any of the official languages.

This is not a rant against immigrants or immigration - I'm an immigrant myself, my family and I came here in the 80's and we all learned the language.

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6 minutes ago, MK78 said:

Yeah I understand why, but it kinda pisses me off that they are pandering to a segment of the community that has no desire or willingness to learn any of the official languages.

This is not a rant against immigrants or immigration - I'm an immigrant myself, my family and I came here in the 80's and we all learned the language.

This is an issue of governance and not the people itself. Canada doesn't require anyone to learn the language nor require anyone to enroll in any classes to learn the language. As long as you can survive (legally), you're good. Canada allows cultural groups to gather and live in the same neighbourhood. This allows immigrants to stay within their group, speak their own mother tongue at work, listen and read news in their own languages thus there isn't a real need to learn any official languages. Canada also allows seniors to immigrate to Canada as long as they are sponsored and cared for, thus they will never learn the language at 70.

This pretty much became what defines Canada itself. A country that you don't need to learn any official languages to survive as long as there is a large number of people from their homeland. 

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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

Yeah I understand why, but it kinda pisses me off that they are pandering to a segment of the community that has no desire or willingness to learn any of the official languages.

This is not a rant against immigrants or immigration - I'm an immigrant myself, my family and I came here in the 80's and we all learned the language.

or maybe they can speak or read the official language but to a degree that they  understand 100% , TTC seems to be doing the right thing by catering to the community around the garage as other members have stated.  TTC is being a good neighbor by printing in the language of the community of the particular area , I live in the Washington DC area and majority of the times notices are printed in several different languages ( spanish, korean ,vietnamese etc ). to reflect the diverse community being served despite english being the official language. Its 2020 not the 80's anymore 

Edited by vvozz
correction
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2 hours ago, MK78 said:

Yeah I understand why, but it kinda pisses me off that they are pandering to a segment of the community that has no desire or willingness to learn any of the official languages.

This is not a rant against immigrants or immigration - I'm an immigrant myself, my family and I came here in the 80's and we all learned the language.

You have to consider that not everyone has the opportunity - time, money, resources, support, to learn a language to the point of fluency. For you to automatically assume they have no desire or willingness is very intolerant of you, despite being an immigrant yourself. Not everyone comes here on an equal footing.

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It’s only a big deal if you let it become one. The situation solves itself as subsequent generations are born.

3 hours ago, MK78 said:

Yeah I understand why, but it kinda pisses me off that they are pandering to a segment of the community that has no desire or willingness to learn any of the official languages.

This is not a rant against immigrants or immigration - I'm an immigrant myself, my family and I came here in the 80's and we all learned the language.

Shoe on the other foot, my wife is Filipino, and I’ve only learned enough Casual Tagalog to know when I’ll be sleeping on the couch that night. 💀

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On 6/7/2020 at 7:05 AM, Bus_Medic said:

I meant what I posted.

 

On 6/13/2020 at 10:25 PM, Shemar said:

Construction of McNicoll garage has been completed! See the photos of the complex posted on the TTC website. Link below:

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects/McNicoll_Bus_Garage/index.jsp

 

On 6/14/2020 at 5:38 AM, STC125 said:

Short answer: No.

There is a big difference between the end of construction and the site being turned over from the contractor to the TTC. There will still be TTC acceptance testing and other familiarization work to be completed before McNicoll becomes an operational Division. Additionally there is the need for OTC to catch up on training that has been delayed by stoppages brought on by Covid-19 restrictions. The linked page says operational by the end of 2020. I would not expect any change to the current use of Obico any time soon.

Will it be possible to train and send in the 7900s, the oldest buses in the fleet?  (Mount Dennis had opened and sent the New Looks, 91 Vs – the older models – and the newer VII NG HEVs. Same case with Comstock when they got the older Fishbowls/Classics and the newer Vs and D40LFs) McNicoll is going to be a senior division from what I noticed. In the event they do not send in the older equipment, the garage will be likely be the first strictly with newer buses. 
 

On 6/18/2020 at 1:57 AM, Xtrazsteve said:

Honestly most materials translated into French is just wasted in the GTA. 95% of the population isn't going read the French signs going up on the Crosstown.

The whole point of printing in other language is communication. As mention above, elders in the area would find the translation useful and that the TTC properly communicated to them. What good would a French version be?

Ontario has two official languages: English and French like Quebec and New Brunswick. Toronto is mostly a anglophone city and they can put in a Russian version for people living in Downsview (primarily Jewish) or Italian version targeting St. Clair residents.
 

 

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10 hours ago, Express Network said:

Will it be possible to train and send in the 7900s, the oldest buses in the fleet?  (Mount Dennis had opened and sent the New Looks, 91 Vs – the older models – and the newer VII NG HEVs. Same case with Comstock when they got the older Fishbowls/Classics and the newer Vs and D40LFs) McNicoll is going to be a senior division from what I noticed. In the event they do not send in the older equipment, the garage will be likely be the first strictly with newer buses. 

Possible? Of course. Likely? No.

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11 hours ago, Express Network said:

Will it be possible to train and send in the 7900s, the oldest buses in the fleet?  (Mount Dennis had opened and sent the New Looks, 91 Vs – the older models – and the newer VII NG HEVs. Same case with Comstock when they got the older Fishbowls/Classics and the newer Vs and D40LFs) McNicoll is going to be a senior division from what I noticed. In the event they do not send in the older equipment, the garage will be likely be the first strictly with newer buses. 
 

What sense would that make? How long were the New Looks and Vs around, versus the size and likely remaining lifetime of the 7900s?

11 hours ago, Express Network said:

Ontario has two official languages: English and French like Quebec and New Brunswick. Toronto is mostly a anglophone city and they can put in a Russian version for people living in Downsview (primarily Jewish) or Italian version targeting St. Clair residents.

When you are in a hole, it's often best to stop digging.

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On 6/25/2020 at 11:04 PM, Express Network said:

Ontario has two official languages: English and French like Quebec and New Brunswick.

Um, no.

New Brunswick is Canada's only officially bilingual province, with its Official Languages Act (SNB 2002, c O-0.5).

Ontario has no official language, but the French Language Services Act (R.S.O. 1990, c. F.32) ensures that provincial government services are offered in French in 26 designated areas across the province with significant numbers of Franco-Ontarian residents, including Toronto.  However, it does not define either English or French as "official".

French is Quebec's only official language, as defined in its Charter of the French Language (CQLR c C-11), commonly known as "Bill 101".

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July 1
Very little work to be done on the outside other than the Bus gate at the north end and finishing off a small portion of the employee parking lot.

The just finish the curbs at the main entrance/exit for the lot and needs a base of gravel before asphalting it. When they place the top coat, they will finish the east driveway as well. Other than that, the lot is ready for the employees once they start moving to the new garage.

That a nice sound barrier wall at the south end.

There is grading and clearing taking place to the parking lot and don't think it was used for the building of the garage until I take a look at some old photos for it if I have any.50069141607_3ccae98f6b_b.jpg50068328168_6298ce134f_b.jpg50069141947_cbeffe0aa6_b.jpg50068883796_9214bf49fa_b.jpg50068329133_ea99a972f2_b.jpg50068884686_5838fb2e9b_b.jpg

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A few questions that got into my chest, with McNicoll’s office space operation and the buses stored there recently, when is the actual target opening date (though the Coupler magazine calls for November)?

Since @FlyerD901 released the proposed route list last year, is there an actual final list of routes that is different from the proposed ones? The 189 STOCKYARDS going to another garage remains unknown.

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2 hours ago, Express Network said:

A few questions that got into my chest, with McNicoll’s office space operation and the buses stored there recently, when is the actual target opening date (though the Coupler magazine calls for November)?

Since @FlyerD901 released the proposed route list last year, is there an actual final list of routes that is different from the proposed ones? The 189 STOCKYARDS going to another garage remains unknown.

The garage was only transferred to TTC ownership this month; all that means is that the bare bones structure of the garage is complete. TTC still needs to outfit it with all the basic equipment needed, such as chairs, tables and computers, and likely much of the maintenance equipment. Staff working out of the facility would also likely require orientation training, and many of the hundreds of drivers moving to McNicoll likely also need to receive route familiarization training. In addition, all of the schedules need to be rewritten to account for new deadheads and crew change points. There's a lot of dominos that needed to be put into place long ahead of the planned opening date, so changing the opening date because one of those dominos was early is unlikely. I haven't heard anything regarding delays, so it seems safe to say things are still on track for a November opening. @Express Network, you've been around long enough that I'm sure you already know most of this, but I'm just spelling it out(/ranting?) for the larger crowd.

Based on the aforementioned list, Queensway appears to be keeping all of their routes with the exception of 45/945 Kipling; they are also adding other routes in the vicinity of the 189 (such as the 71 and 77). The 189 was created using existing buses moved from other Queensway routes, which would have been accounted for in the previous fleet plan. It also only uses two buses, so it's not a large impact to any division. I would strongly suspect that it stays at Queensway.

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2 hours ago, Articulated said:

The garage was only transferred to TTC ownership this month; all that means is that the bare bones structure of the garage is complete. TTC still needs to outfit it with all the basic equipment needed, such as chairs, tables and computers, and likely much of the maintenance equipment. Staff working out of the facility would also likely require orientation training, and many of the hundreds of drivers moving to McNicoll likely also need to receive route familiarization training. In addition, all of the schedules need to be rewritten to account for new deadheads and crew change points. There's a lot of dominos that needed to be put into place long ahead of the planned opening date, so changing the opening date because one of those dominos was early is unlikely. I haven't heard anything regarding delays, so it seems safe to say things are still on track for a November opening.

Thanks. But I am getting the feeling that they may push back the opening date to 2021 due to the ongoing pandemic is going on. They don’t want to rush things quickly because they might open the new division in the middle of the health crisis. It’s like Mount Dennis that was supposed to open in September 2007 but a strike at Orion and budget shortfall delayed the opening to November 2008. I hope this will not be the case for McNicoll.

If Comstock according to TTC documents said they were opening in late 2001, they opened the garage in March 2002 instead.

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Micnicoll is listed as an Active bus garage based on internal info. With one bus officially on their roaster, 2252. If I remember correctly the last update was end of July or beginning of Aug.  I'm sure when it gets updated again, most likely next board, we'll see what buses they add.

Ppl on both Maintenance and Transportation side already confirm going to McNicoll, but no official date yet.  I heard as early as October 11  or as late as Nov 22 Board, if not it will be Q1 2021.

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On 8/23/2020 at 4:08 PM, FlyerD901 said:

Micnicoll is listed as an Active bus garage based on internal info. With one bus officially on their roaster, 2252. If I remember correctly the last update was end of July or beginning of Aug.  I'm sure when it gets updated again, most likely next board, we'll see what buses they add.

Ppl on both Maintenance and Transportation side already confirm going to McNicoll, but no official date yet.  I heard as early as October 11  or as late as Nov 22 Board, if not it will be Q1 2021.

Just to recap @FlyerD901, the route list from last year is finalized yet? At the time of its release, the 189 didn't exist yet. So will any of the three routes from the October 2019 changes stay at Queensway? Night routes are in question as well.

Arrow Road: 36, 45, 52, 84, 96, 99, 108, 120, 165, 336, 339, 352, 384, 396, 945, 952, 984, 996
Birchmount: 6, 9, 12, 16, 20, 22, 23, 24, 31, 62, 64, 65, 69, 70, 72, 75, 82, 83, 87, 92, 94, 113, 121, 135, 143, 175, 300, 302, 322, 324, 905, 924
Eglinton: 8, 11, 25, 28, 34, 54, 56, 67, 74, 81, 88, 91, 93, 100, 103, 141, 144, 162, 300, 320, 325, 334, 354, 925, 954
Malvern: 21, 38, 85, 86, 95, 102, 116, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 169, 385, 395, 902, 903, 913, 985, 986, 995
McNicoll: 10, 17, 39, 42, 43, 51, 53, 57, 68, 115, 122, 129, 167, 336, 339, 343, 353, 939, 953
Mount Dennis: 14, 29, 32, 35, 41, 79, 161, 168, 171, 300, 329, 332, 335, 341, 927, 929, 935, 941
Queensway: 15, 26, 30, 37, 40, 44, 46, 48, 49, 50, 55, 66, 71, 73, 76, 77, 80, 110, 111, 112, 123, 127, 145, 176, 189*, 300, 312*, 315, 337, 900, 937, 944
Wilson: 5, 7, 33, 47, 59, 60, 61, 63, 78, 89, 90, 97, 98, 101, 104, 105, 106, 107, 109, 117, 118, 119, 124, 125, 126, 142, 160, 307, 320, 363, 960, 989

* - In question
 

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1 hour ago, Sutharsan said:

I saw a couple of nova buses were parked at the back of McNicoll bus garage this afternoon.

They’ve all been there, and shuffled spares from Malvern for a while now

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As the RapidTO is implemented next October board, there could be an issue regarding the 86 SCARBOROUGH and the 116 MORNINGSIDE moving to Malvern since Comstock has their buses wrapped for it. If they were to remain at Comstock, will Malvern take over the 54 LAWRENCE EAST instead? It’s a scenario in the event Malvern may not have their buses (Orions and Novas) wrapped with RapidTO decals befor McNicoll opens in March 2021.

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1 hour ago, Eren Jaeger said:

As the RapidTO is implemented next October board, there could be an issue regarding the 86 SCARBOROUGH and the 116 MORNINGSIDE moving to Malvern since Comstock has their buses wrapped for it. If they were to remain at Comstock, will Malvern take over the 54 LAWRENCE EAST instead? It’s a scenario in the event Malvern may not have their buses (Orions and Novas) wrapped with RapidTO decals befor McNicoll opens in March 2021.

They are decals that can be removed. That won’t hinder the route shuffle by any means. Other buses may get the wrap in their stead

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22 hours ago, Eren Jaeger said:

As the RapidTO is implemented next October board, there could be an issue regarding the 86 SCARBOROUGH and the 116 MORNINGSIDE moving to Malvern since Comstock has their buses wrapped for it. If they were to remain at Comstock, will Malvern take over the 54 LAWRENCE EAST instead? It’s a scenario in the event Malvern may not have their buses (Orions and Novas) wrapped with RapidTO decals befor McNicoll opens in March 2021.

The wraps are just for public outreach and not for dedicated bus service

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