smallspy Posted February 23, 2019 Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 19 hours ago, MikeyB said: If anyone would like to discuss the electrification of the OC Transpo fleet using actual facts I'd be happy to have that discussion but personal attacks and non-factual arguments based on fear and oil industry propaganda are not welcome here. As am I - and I'm sure a lot of other people are, too - but you simply haven't provided any yet. 19 hours ago, MikeyB said: @smallspy I would argue that the technology has indeed caught up to, and in some ways, exceeded diesel buses. Look at what Proterra is doing. Even New Flyer has some decent battery vehicles now. And I have seen the reports from reputable sources about extreme cold temperatures. There are a lot of factors that impact EV range and a lot of things that can be done to mitigate those impacts. i would also point out that at extreme temperatures Diesel vehicles are not reliable either unless certain steps are taken. A lot of those reports leave out key details and are written to get views so they tend to sensationalize things. Any sensationalized reports cut both ways. There are lots of reports that sensationalize the performance of EVs. For instance, a lot of people love to equate the fact that a Tesla Model S P100D is capable of running a 0-to-100 time of around 2.5 seconds, AND that it also has a range of about 350 miles. The problem is that it can't do BOTH, and that's what a lot of people overlook. Sure, extreme temperatures can affect diesel vehicles. And just like your comment about EVs, there are methods and procedures available to mitigate them. The difference is that most of those procedures and methods are long-since known with diesels, and are only now being found out for EVs. 19 hours ago, MikeyB said: You make a good point though, we shouldn't rely on the manufacturer's claims either, Ottawa should acquire a test fleet and do its own research. I'm not in disagreement, but by the same token, they can certainly start by using Toronto's test as a baseline from which to extrapolate their own data. Dan 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dowlingm Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Batteries generallly have issues with heat and cold. Toronto and some other cities struggle with both. If Canada wants to push e-buses, it should probably concentrate on jurisdictions which mostly just have one of those. If a cold-proof e-bus ends up proven, then getting them into Northern areas with good electric supply would be helpful given the cost and environmental impact of diesel. If we were to aspire to de-diesel a large Cdn jurisdiction, Vancouver and Victoria would seem like places to start. Keep in mind though that most transit agencies have large investments of both capital and people in internal combustion maintenance, and it won’t make much economic sense to retrain or retire everyone whose current expertise is no longer pertinent and every maintenance facility which needs refitting and decommission every fuelling facility where the investment is largely undepreciated, so even in “best case” situations a phase out is going to make more sense. I hope what we can all agree on is that where cities are in a good position to exploit electric transit in a way which makes economic sense that all higher governments should be ready to assist (rather than shovelling subsidies into the pockets of car dealers and private vehicle owners) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWhelan Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 Looking at the manufacturer's information it would seem up the range is up to 260 miles so realistically say 170 on a cold day. Allow for diversions and that takes you to around 150 miles so how far does a bus travel per day? Split shifting means you could recharge during the day which might help. It will be interesting to see the results of the Toronto test. Doing the sums is difficult, how do you account for global warming and air pollution from diesels? Actually in Ottawa air pollution isn't a major factor but in other cities it might well be. Cheerio John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandeWest_B35G Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 An interesting feature that the Lion Electric Company has on their buses is removable batteries, where the batteries can be easily switched out when they are low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistler Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 I think Ottawa is smart to be ordering diesel buses for now. Let Toronto and other cities be the guinea pig while we focus on getting the LRT working for now. We can keep the proven diesel buses and then start looking at the electric ones once the other cities have worked out the unforeseen problems. What a lot of people in the public forget is that our trains are electric, and are replacing a few hundred buses, so it is not like the city isn't doing anything to reduce transit emissions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaGoose Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 I'm sure once they get the money for an new garage for this type of fleet (chargers and indoor) and they see success from the STM (other than la circuit 36 monk), the city will have this on their radar. For now, it's years down the road. The city is focused on an electric light rail service for the city, that's an easier win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCCheetos Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 OC Transpo has done a full 180 and is now recommending the purchase of two Nova Bus LFSe vehicles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 If you truly want to test these electric buses and batteries test them in the far north like in the Innuit White Horse, Yellowknifew where its very cold in the winter. If they can live in those conditions then buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCCheetos Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, MCIBUS said: If you truly want to test these electric buses and batteries test them in the far north like in the Innuit White Horse, Yellowknifew where its very cold in the winter. If they can live in those conditions then buy them. They're already in use in Montreal and as far as I can tell have worked fine for them. The climate in Montreal is near identical to here. The commission directed OC Transpo to conduct a full tendering process to find the best deal for electric buses with $6 million. Personally, I'm going to predict that they'll pick Nova Bus anyway. The long range buses just aren't up to ranges OC Transpo's needs yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandeWest_B35G Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, MCIBUS said: If you truly want to test these electric buses and batteries test them in the far north like in the Innuit White Horse, Yellowknifew where its very cold in the winter. If they can live in those conditions then buy them. Edmonton did a bunch of testing on (keyword: long-range) electric buses back in 2016. Both New Flyer and BYD were tested, and they worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWhelan Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 I think the problem with Nova is the cost of the rapid charging stations. Once you've brought those it is difficult to justify using another company's battery bus. It's not just a bus you're buying but a system with infrastructure. Cheerio John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCCheetos Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 50 minutes ago, JohnWhelan said: I think the problem with Nova is the cost of the rapid charging stations. Once you've brought those it is difficult to justify using another company's battery bus. It's not just a bus you're buying but a system with infrastructure. Cheerio John The charge stations conform to a standard which means any sane bus company building a fast-charging electric bus would also follow the standard. Apart from the LFSe, NFI's XE40 is also compatible with the charge stations for instance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnWhelan Posted June 23, 2019 Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 4:43 PM, OCCheetos said: The charge stations conform to a standard which means any sane bus company building a fast-charging electric bus would also follow the standard. Apart from the LFSe, NFI's XE40 is also compatible with the charge stations for instance. Ta John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCL Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 11:34 AM, OCCheetos said: OC Transpo has done a full 180 and is now recommending the purchase of two Nova Bus LFSe vehicles. According to the upcoming September 18, 2019 Transit Commission meeting, under Item 3 titled "Capital Adjustments and Closing of Projects – Transit Commission", Document 2 (https://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=7667&doctype=agenda&itemid=390094), the funding of the electric buses that was announced at the June Transit Commission meeting comes from the Bus Refurbishment Program Capital Budget. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC Transpo/STO Fan Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, JCL said: According to the upcoming September 18, 2019 Transit Commission meeting, under Item 3 titled "Capital Adjustments and Closing of Projects – Transit Commission", Document 2 (https://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=7667&doctype=agenda&itemid=390094), the funding of the electric buses that was announced at the June Transit Commission meeting comes from the Bus Refurbishment Program Capital Budget. Excuse the stupid question, but is this LFSe funding the reason why D60LF refurbishments have been slowly paced? They started in December 2017 and they've only done four with two more in refurbishment right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCCheetos Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OC Transpo/STO Fan said: Excuse the stupid question, but is this LFS funding the reason why D60LF refurbishments have been slowly paced? They started in December 2017 and they've only done four with two more in refurbishment right now. The purchase may not necessarily be for LFSe. The original proposal was to sole-source, but transit commission sent them back to do a full procurement. That said, I'm personally fully expecting them to go with LFSe anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 From what I'm hearing, there will be a Proterra offering demonstration rides from the Horticulture Building at Lansdowne Park this Saturday as part of a Green Energy event. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enviro_1203 Posted September 18, 2019 Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 Around 18:20, I spotted a black and pink Proterra on a flatbed on 417 WB passing St Laurent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/18/2019 at 12:52 PM, Flalex72 said: From what I'm hearing, there will be a Proterra offering demonstration rides from the Horticulture Building at Lansdowne Park this Saturday as part of a Green Energy event. I'm also hearing it will be at St. Laurent Garage (not open to the public) on Friday, so it's spending a couple of days here in Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enviro_1203 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Flalex72 said: I'm also hearing it will be at St. Laurent Garage (not open to the public) on Friday, so it's spending a couple of days here in Ottawa. That would be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikola Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Saw this Proterra bus today on Dow's Lake. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCL Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nikola said: Saw this Proterra bus today on Dow's Lake. As board member Flalex72 mentioned, Proterra was offering (FREE) demonstration ride at Lansdowne Park. It was running every hour on the hour via the Queen Elizabeth Driveway and Prince of Wales Drive between Lansdowne Park and the roundabout, then back to Lansdowne Park (15 minute ride). Had a chance to ride it and I can say that the bus has a much smoother ride than the new Nova LFS's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCIBUS Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 But what where the road conditions? If there was fresh ash fault on the Drive & Prince of Whales then any bus would of seem smooth ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enviro_1203 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Nikola said: Saw this Proterra bus today on Dow's Lake. Spotted it on the flatbed headed west by Bayshore earlier this evening 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flalex72 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/21/2019 at 5:35 PM, JCL said: As board member Flalex72 mentioned, Proterra was offering (FREE) demonstration ride at Lansdowne Park. It was running every hour on the hour via the Queen Elizabeth Driveway and Prince of Wales Drive between Lansdowne Park and the roundabout, then back to Lansdowne Park (15 minute ride). Had a chance to ride it and I can say that the bus has a much smoother ride than the new Nova LFS's. For those wondering about the colour, I spoke to the rep on site who indicated that the pink wrap spotted was for a rental and was removed before being demonstrated in Ottawa. The logo on the side was applied locally before the bus gets shipped back to the factory to be fully wrapped in the demonstration scheme again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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